Large rescue society refusing to hand over collie to breed rescue

Clodagh said:
Mums collie before this one was farm bred. She rehomed it from a small terraced house with a single mum and about six kids. They really did love the dog and she hadn’t been ill treated but she had neuroses that were hitherto unknown ! She calmed right down in a calm quiet house with plenty of exercise but would never have been many people’s cup of tea.
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Same. Miss Collie was very much loved but the woman who had her, had no idea how much exercise was needed and it ended up in her with a lot of fear-reactivity and other issues that's caused me a lot of frustrated tears and completely re-thinking the way I train my dogs!
 
My dog recently died and I have think about should I get another, thinking hard, and what sort and so on. So on FB, I know, I joined a dog rehoming group.
I have successfully rehomed two dog direct from their owners in the past, and I think the dogs, the owner and certaining I have been happy with the result. Proper handover, less stress for the dog, no kennel aquired diseases, I was able to asses them in their normal enviroment and a chance for the old owner to keep in touch. Get them from a kennel and usually you get none of these, I refuse to call them a rescue because most dogs have not been rescued, for what ever reason things are either not or not going to work out and people want to rehome them.
The two dogs I got from a large animal charities had all the side effects of being in kennels, the collieX was a mess. When I rehomed her I was never told about her issues, and went home with a hyper active, not house trained, stressed and it had the worse case of seperation anxiety I have ever seen. To say this dog changed my life is a understatment. A bit like all active working breeds they are not really family pets, and the only way to keep her calm at first was a 7mile hack at the trot, and as I didn't drive at the time there was a 3mile walk before that. I was never lonely, she literally never left my side.
The kennels that call themselves 'rescues' are very anti home to home, rehoming, they use scare tactics that every rehomer is going to use it for dog fighting or breeding. They are always asking for money, and yet when you try to rehome you are viewed with suspicion, yet everyday a dog is in kennels is not good for it and costs money. I would never give a pet of mine to one of these organisations, they have lost the plot and I am sorry for the owners of the poor collie as well and the dog.
The whole thing about importing dogs has me raging, its really interesting there has been a study done on it and the conclusions are worth a read.
https://eurekalert.org/pub_releases...cd7zfsdrIW5oT-q3gCjT0Ugp243XsZS7DUPURBT5MWEyA
 
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Karran said:
Same. Miss Collie was very much loved but the woman who had her, had no idea how much exercise was needed and it ended up in her with a lot of fear-reactivity and other issues that's caused me a lot of frustrated tears and completely re-thinking the way I train my dogs!
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Someone I know posted a pic of her new Border Collie puppy on fb last night. My blood has been boiling since. I’ve known this person for around 4 years, and in that time, she’s had at least 4 dogs that I know about. None have been around for very long, I know she never walked any of them. She sold two due to poor health. I am worried for the puppy.
 
TheresaW said:
Someone I know posted a pic of her new Border Collie puppy on fb last night. My blood has been boiling since. I’ve known this person for around 4 years, and in that time, she’s had at least 4 dogs that I know about. None have been around for very long, I know she never walked any of them. She sold two due to poor health. I am worried for the puppy.
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God it really doesnt bear thinking about. Poor little soul
 
honetpot said:
The whole thing about importing dogs has me raging, its really interesting there has been a study done on it and the conclusions are worth a read.
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"Strict requirements to adopt from UK rescue organisations were also highlighted as barriers to adopting from the UK, which suggests that a review of organisational adoption processes may be required, say the researchers."

The whole article is interesting, but this bit particularly jumped out at me
 
Ah, so the proud mantra of the ‘breed specific’ rescue that has put up the court challenge to the Mayhew is:-

‘We never put a dog to sleep, no matter what their issues are. After all, they weren’t born bad.’

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All wise rescue charities will recognise that some animals coming into their care will be too damaged to be able to safely rehabilitate them. There are far worse things that can happen to an animal than euthanasia in calm surroundings.
 
Tiddlypom said:
All wise rescue charities will recognise that some animals coming into their care will be too damaged to be able to safely rehabilitate them. There are far worse things that can happen to an animal than euthanasia in calm surroundings.
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I agree that that seems like a shaky premise on which to be operating a rescue. Without commenting on the case in question, I completely agree with you that "there are far worse things that can happen to an animal than euthanasia in calm surroundings" - a life of constant stress, or a severely restricted life, would surely be worse for some dogs than being put to sleep.
 
Widgeon said:
I agree that that seems like a shaky premise on which to be operating a rescue. Without commenting on the case in question, I completely agree with you that "there are far worse things that can happen to an animal than euthanasia in calm surroundings" - a life of constant stress, or a severely restricted life, would surely be worse for some dogs than being put to sleep.
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I wish they would stop spending vast amounts of money on animals that have no real future, and the amount they spend on them seems to be a symbol of how much they care, so they can ask for more money.
Last year I was looking for yard cats, I had tried the local CPL, but she decided the cats she had caught and had told I could have were far too nice to live outside. I kid you not, after I had listened to the sob story of how they were in an unsafe place and despriately needed rehoming. So I ask round my friends. A lady in the end turns up a 10pm one night , from about 50miles away from a CPL. They caught the poor old feral moggy, neutered it, dentistry, which is about £400 and the poor thing was traumatised. She told me she had taken it home to foster it until it got a perminant 'home', to a small house with kids, that basically it spent all its time pooping and hiding, and she just wanted to get rid of it. There was another reason as well but I forget, but she wasn't worried by the distance because she would get ex's
The more you learn about the people who take in these animals the more you think, what are they on? In the two weeks I kept the cat in, all I can say about is it ate the food and pooed, it did not want any human contact, it was kept in feed room covered in a rug. So Ghost has gone, not even sure if it came for the food I put out. The only good thing from my point of view is I ended not paying anything, the normal fee is £70, that how badly she wanted to get rid.
 
I remember seeing a farm collie in a council pound with a chain dragging from it's neck, can't remember if it was lifted or handed in. The warden, who was a real animal lover and had a great way with dogs, had spent days trying to get close enough to take the chain off but could not. He knew and I knew what would happen, there is no way he could have sold it to a MoP or a charity could have responsibly rehomed it.
A lot of these dogs are from generations of animals who have never been off the farm, they've seen and done nothing else, a lot of them are also interbred. All the socialisation in the world will be of little use to dogs like this, they're not built for or genetically inclined to cope with, active, busy pet homes. It's like expecting a lifelong country bumpkin to suddenly enjoy living in a skyscraper in the middle of a city.
 
Tiddlypom said:
Ah, so the proud mantra of the ‘breed specific’ rescue that has put up the court challenge to the Mayhew is:-

‘We never put a dog to sleep, no matter what their issues are. After all, they weren’t born bad.’

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All wise rescue charities will recognise that some animals coming into their care will be too damaged to be able to safely rehabilitate them. There are far worse things that can happen to an animal than euthanasia in calm surroundings.
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I hadn't seen that and do agree with you, but also feel that if they can offer a safe sanctuary with the rescue and the dog has quality of life then that is fine too.
 
honetpot said:
I wish they would stop spending vast amounts of money on animals that have no real future, and the amount they spend on them seems to be a symbol of how much they care, so they can ask for more money.
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Or maybe they believe that all dogs deserve a chance?
 
CorvusCorax said:
I remember seeing a farm collie in a council pound with a chain dragging from it's neck, can't remember if it was lifted or handed in. The warden, who was a real animal lover and had a great way with dogs, had spent days trying to get close enough to take the chain off but could not. He knew and I knew what would happen, there is no way he could have sold it to a MoP or a charity could have responsibly rehomed it.
A lot of these dogs are from generations of animals who have never been off the farm, they've seen and done nothing else, a lot of them are also interbred. All the socialisation in the world will be of little use to dogs like this, they're not built for or genetically inclined to cope with, active, busy pet homes. It's like expecting a lifelong country bumpkin to suddenly enjoy living in a skyscraper in the middle of a city.
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I know you are right :(, to a point at least. My grandparents were farmers in rural Ireland where the problem is even worse than over here in the UK, I am married to a shepherd and volunteered for BC rescue, so have seen the best, and worst, of the lives collies can lead. There are some sad cases that can't be helped as they are far too damaged but there are also many success stories of dogs coming in with little socialisation or exposure to anything out of a shed or barn and they are rehabilitated and then rehomed to experienced collie owners in countryside environments.

Edited to add : There are far more farm bred collies than there are suitable homes though, I don't kid myself about that one. I have done my own soul searching at times about one of the collies here who is genetically a bit of a screw up. After speaking to a breed rescue and almost parting with him, I changed my mind as despite it not being an ideal situation for either us or the dog, I think here is probably the best place for him as we live in a remote, quiet place with few cars, people or the triggers that upset him.
 
CorvusCorax said:
It's like expecting a lifelong country bumpkin to suddenly enjoy living in a skyscraper in the middle of a city.
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OT but that would be my hubby. He has also told me stories of old shepherds he has known in the distant past who lived in tied accommodation on the farm where they worked and who then had to go into council housing in a town when they retired. So very sad, many became depressed and one or two even took their own lives.
 
Moobli said:
Or maybe they believe that all dogs deserve a chance?
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That's a very laudable thought if you can afford to pay all the asscociated bills and the costs until the right home is found. On FB you see pleas, we have a huge vets bill that we have to pay because of xyz, we have not the money to pay, I think this no way to run a charity of any any sort.
Looking at some of the FB pages I could call myself a 'rescue', I have at least three ponies no one wanted, I used to have six, and several cats rehomed from large charities where I am the home of last resort, and have taken in strays. I only have what I can afford to keep, the animals that I have collected as strays, are neutered,and chipped and if a neighbour asks if they can have one, they are signed over without a fee. The vets are really good, if its really sick they will PTS for free, but I think some see it as an income stream.
The cats that I have rehomed as the home of last resort were absolutely miserable, on hand over they admiited that the cattery was not a suitable place for them, and they were traumatised by the experience. I admit I have no idea how many cats I am feeding, we have a collection of old farm buildings and open fields on three sides, with ditches so there are plenty of small animals that even the lazy can catch. I never see them, just the odd remains of what they have eaten and the odd bit of fur, where they have sat to eat. I put a bowl of good quality dried cat food out every day and its mostly gone by the next, but as soon as it gets warmer I would expect they will stop bothering.
A dog is a much harder animal to place, our homes and gardens are getting smaller, and we work more. Do we really want to have dogs 'stored' in kennels for the majority of their lives, I have seen some as long as ten years, with constant pleas for money.
I should be seen as the perfect person to rehome to, but having had dogs with problems that I have lived with, the hyper active collie was eighteen when she died, I can not face at least two years of stress with none of the fun of having a puppy. My kids never had a puppy until they were 18 and 20, even through they had never known the house without a dog, because I rehomed. I have decided to give my husband, who over the years has woken up to the distruction and myself a break and if I do rehome it will be from its owner. The last two have been done that way and they have been a joy.
 
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Mayhew’s statement


Monday 2 March 2020
At Mayhew, we understand that any situation involving the potential euthanasia of an animal is distressing. It is always the last possible resort our team of animal lovers would consider, and we empathise with everyone asking questions in relation to a case of this nature involving a border collie in our care, Benji.
Mayhew was issued with an injunction in relation to Benji last week. We needed to engage our legal team in response to this to represent us in the initial and any subsequent court dates. Because of this, we are restricted in the comments we are able to make publically, but we feel it is important to clarify what we can at this time.
The case has been stayed for six weeks by the court to allow the matter to be resolved without any further costs incurred by either side, which Mayhew of course wants to avoid. Until we have a resolution, Benji will stay in our newly refurbished kennels, in the care of our expert team.
Mayhew strives to never end a healthy animal’s life. As an animal welfare charity which has served our community for over 130 years, we also take our duty of care extremely seriously and have long-standing policies and procedures – in line with other animal charities – which we follow to ensure that we do not rehome animals who may be a danger to themselves, other animals or humans. Our euthanasia policy is available on our website: https://themayhew.org/who-we-are/policies/
Our qualified team have decades of animal behaviour experience and always act with cats’ and dogs’ welfare front of mind. Considering euthanasia is always the last resort. This specific case is nuanced and sensitive, and we are continuing to explore all possible options. All decisions made have and will continue to be based on the most responsible animal welfare outcome.
We do understand the distress a situation like this can cause. Everyone at Mayhew is an animal lover first and foremost and this includes the human beings behind our social media accounts, emails and telephones. We urge everyone to treat our people with the tolerance and politeness they would expect in return. Thank you.
 
I adopted a dog from a breed rescue who was dog aggressive but because I had breed experience I was allowed to, that dog is now an absolute sweetheart but if she had been in a normal rescue I doubt she would have been up for adoption .

Collies are a very challenging breed and Im sure if the breed rescue signed papers taking full responsibility from the Mayhew there would not be a problem.

A few years ago our Lancashire Heeler club noticed a LH in with a very large rescue, unfortunately before they could approach them with an offer of a home the dog was pts for nipping the heels of people. LH are a breed that nip the heels of cattle to get them moving and is a very common trait, anyone who has had one of these as puppies will know thats what they do but you train it out of them. If only they had reached out to a breed rescue most probably that dog would be alive today.

Big rescues dont want dogs with behavioural issues as that takes time and time means money so they want them out the door asap.
 
Presumably in the meantime, while all this ridiculous posturing is going on, the poor dog is still in kennels?

Nothing gives the breed rescue the ‘right’ to take the dog. Just because they wouldn’t put it to sleep, doesn’t make them them the good guys in this situation.

No-one knows what has really occurred with this dog and other dogs but I’m sure the general rescue wouldn’t reach the decision to put to sleep lightly. For one thing, it’s a PR disaster even if it’s the right thing to do.
 
I think that for breed rescues can be better placed than a general rescue to rehome some breeds of dog. We adopted our 2 sighthounds via their breed rescue They really understand the breed and their (many) quirks so are able to match dogs to suitable homes.
 
This dog, Benji, is known by some of the people who are trying to save him from being PTS and he's never previously shown any aggression. His owner died and he has been taken away from a quiet, secure, family environment to a noisy kennels which wouldn't suit most collies anyway. He then showed some reaction to another dog in his assessment which is hardly surprising given the circumstances. No, he shouldn't be re-homed to anyone without collie experience but he is a young dog and could easily find a good home with someone who understands collies. This is what The Border Collie Spot were trying to achieve.

The Mayhew have now done another assesment and said that actually he's OK and can be re-homed to someone who has experience and doesn't have another dog. The best place to find someone like this is a breed specific rescue but the Mayhew still refuse to hand him onto one, which means he will stay longer and longer in the kennel environment which doesn't suit him and will probably turn him into a nervous wreck.

I don't agree with charities not putting some dogs down, like another poster above I also won't support The Dog's Trust as they put dogs through huge surgery, pain and rehab just to fulfil that promise and I don't think that's always the right outcome for the dog. However a healthy young dog like Benji can continue leading a happy life with the right owner.

Juno can show some aggression towards dogs and also men coming into the office. We manage the situation as best we can but if we died and this charity took her in, they'd put her to sleep too. She's not a nasty dog, but she resource guards with dogs and in the office she's protecting me and her territory. She could easily slot into another home who was aware of this and managed their way around it.
 
I have looked into rehoming a rescue dog since moving to Ireland and subsequently being able to retire but an almost universal demand is that you have a secure garden/yard as the dog is a flight/livestock/wildlife/cat/dog risk. I don’t have the budget or inclination to create a high security environment on my farm to house a rescue dog. Our old deerhound lurcher could sail over a five bar gate or 4’ fence so the fence would have to be extremely high and impossible for a dog to scale and I want a companionable dog not one I need to keep in a pen.
 
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