Large sarcoid and crest toothpaste, result!

Hairy Old cow if you have had an experience like that I would urge you to report it to the RCVS as that is not how it should be-some people percieve it to be that way as they are offended they have to pay for their animal but there is no national pet health scheme so I'm afraid that is part of pet ownership-thats not he vets fault as they have bills to pay but if they were making an animal suffer for money you need to report it as there is bad in every profession
 
SusieT said:
I can assure you that if toothpaste worked vets would have analysed why and developed a similar veterinary cream.
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I wish you could, but I doubt if you can.

I have now removed around 6 sarcoids with copper sulphate, which cost pennies. My vet saw one and said I had got at least as good a result as he would have achieved with Liverpool cream.

I do NOT recommend anyone tries this, because it can leave a very big hole (depending on how big the sarcoid root is) which then has to be kept very clean to heal in without infection. But it does seem to me to be the case that there are far cheaper effective remedies than arsenic poisoning from Liverpool, and I'm open to the suggestion that one of them is flourine delivered in toothpaste.

I would like to see the evidence that Prof Knottenbelt has tried flourine and found it ineffective, do you have a pointer to it Susie?

Perhaps more to the point does anyone, anywhere have any BAD stories about using toothpaste on sarcoids?
 
ribbons said:
Also, being a cynical old bat sometimes, I am of the certain opinion that if, and I say IF, toothpaste dealt effectively with sarcoids there isn't a vet in the country that would suggest a 2 or 3 quid remedy from corner shop is better than their treatment. Veterinary practice is not always about what is best for animal and owner. It is just as much about business.
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If there was a cure for Sarcoids then it would be used. There is no effective cure at the moment for sarcoids. Most treatments have a rough range of 30 percent success dependent on the type of sarcoid.The liverpool cream is somewhat more successful but even that is not a 100 percent cure in every case.

Some sarcoids simple regress, others get worse.The only predictable things about sarcoids is their unpredictability. But all the spontaneous regression sarcoids leads to all sorts of myths about what actually might work.

Yes of course Vet practices are business. But ethics and business can work together. Generally vets do have a vested interest in keeping animals alive, happy and try to fix every problem we can where possible within reason..makes for much happier clients and pets. It is the owners responsibility to make the calls but vets are expected to present the options.

Do you really not think that if toothpaste was the cure that the Vets would use it? There are several thousand vet in the UK and Ireland. Do you really we are all in on a conspiracy to keep animals suffering for profit?? More than a little insulted by that.
 
Wow. very interesting!!

My cob was treated with the liverpool cream a few years back. It was horrendous to watch as he dissloved into nothing, was in so much pain and very lethargic. Such a horrible thing seeing them go through it.

It did work however but he was more or less out of work for a year as it was up behing his sheath, as the cream killed the affected area the dead tissue hardened and as it started t come off it was cutting the inside of his leg. Which left him with a nast wound which nothing could be done for.

My mare seems to have a few small ones now, so woul defo look into treating her with something else, I couldnt put another hore of mines through the pain.
 
I removed a sarcoid from my horse by using vitamin e cream. its not what you put on so much as the action of rubbing it in, which loosens the roots which hold it into the skin. Simples. You could use anything but toothpaste is easier as you can get a better 'grip' on the sarcoid using that as its grainier than oil or cream.

Much as I respect the great man Knottenbelt I do wonder if Liverpool Cream is a bit of a fad.
 
Havingread this,I looked for Crest when the OH was deliberating over toothpaste for about three hours in Asda this week :rolleyes:: it was not on sale. Asda has the biggest range of the supermarkets round here.
 
I don't believe that Liverpool cream is a fad it has been developed to treat sarcoids, which is skin cancer. If I had skin cancer I wouldn't be putting toothpaste on it can't see why it would be any different on a horse. If crest has worked then it probably wasnt a sarcoid.
 
cinnamontoast said:
Havingread this,I looked for Crest when the OH was deliberating over toothpaste for about three hours in Asda this week :rolleyes:: it was not on sale. Asda has the biggest range of the supermarkets round here.
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It's hard to find here (I'm a "Crest person" - vs Colgate etc and bring it back from Canada with me :) ) but I have seen it in Tesco's. Because Crest has no real market share here it's usually tucked away on the bottom shelf.
 
SusieT said:
-I cannot stress enough-get your VET to examine sarcoids before trying ANY treatment as you could end up with a far worse situation.
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Agree with this - the vets do not know what causes sarcoids - they BELIEVE it MIGHT be caused by a virus. There are also several different types of sarcoid.

Messing with sarcoids is a very silly thing to do - if you get it wrong they can get much worse and spread. In fact, the only way a vet can be sure it is is sarcoid is by doing a biopsy and it has been proven that by taking this biopsy you can cause the sarcoid to grow and spread.

As someone else said - if I had skin cancer there is no way I would be putting home made remedies on it, so why would you do this to your horse?

Please get a vet's recommendation/referral every time!
 
My gelding was treated with Liverpool Cream and he was absolutely fine throughout the treatment. He showed no pain response, didnt need sedating for each application and the sarcoids died and area healed amazingly.

Vet is due back beginning of next week to treat another couple that have arisen, again with Liverpool Cream.

Knowing how aggressive sarcoids can be I would be quite wary of using a non approved treatment without vet supervision.
 
cptrayes said:
I wish you could, but I doubt if you can.

I have now removed around 6 sarcoids with copper sulphate, which cost pennies. My vet saw one and said I had got at least as good a result as he would have achieved with Liverpool cream.

I do NOT recommend anyone tries this, because it can leave a very big hole (depending on how big the sarcoid root is) which then has to be kept very clean to heal in without infection. But it does seem to me to be the case that there are far cheaper effective remedies than arsenic poisoning from Liverpool, and I'm open to the suggestion that one of them is flourine delivered in toothpaste.

I would like to see the evidence that Prof Knottenbelt has tried flourine and found it ineffective, do you have a pointer to it Susie?

Perhaps more to the point does anyone, anywhere have any BAD stories about using toothpaste on sarcoids?
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I doubt he tried fluorine -its a gas. Try fluoride.
 
Hairy Old Cob said:
I second that animals are used as cash cows by vets especialy family pets keep it going as you can even though it would be kinder and more humane to PTS.
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Really? So why, when I took my elderly cat to the vet (who actually owns the practice)with what I assumed was an ear infection, did he say that it was actually likely to be a growth in the middle ear and while he could take her in, knock her out, scan her and do a thorough examination, I didn't really want that for her did I, and we would just treat the symptoms. A course of steroids later and my cat is still tootling about. She can be a bit wobbly on her legs if she turns suddenly and is totally deaf now, but is doing pretty well 3 years down the line from diagnosis.

This isn't the first vet I've met who was happy to look for cheaper alternatives and to consider the animal's best interests first.
 
A client of mine used toothpaste on her horses sarcoids. There were about 5 of them in total ranging from 5p size to 1.5 inch across. Within 2 weeks all but 1 had completely disappeared, the last one taking 4 weeks to go. The skin is healthy and all but the last one have full hair regrowth and you can't see where they ever were. I too was extremely cynical about it working as always believed sarcoids would go when they are ready but for this to happen with 5 of them, I'm now a believer that (in some cases, it could work!)
 
Had various horses and pony with Sarcoids over the years used Indian mud from vets worked on a nasty ulcerated sarcoid never came back, used again on a pony crusty verrucous type came back within months so then used Liverpool Cream did have to give bute daily made a big mess but healed very well and when she was sold had to point the area where it had been out to the vet.
One of our mares has a nodular sarcoid quite small having it lasered in two weeks time but the vet who is carrying out the laser surgery did mention Zovirax Cream post op to kill any seeds which could remain.
I have done a lot of research myself into Sarcoids and never came across Crest toothpaste!!
 
I've used Zovirax cream very sucessfully on a few. Normally best on small flat ones but also works on nodular nones also. The nodular ones seem to crust up and flake away, last horse I treated was over a year ago and had nodular on neck and sheath and both vanished with zovirax.
 
fatpiggy said:
I doubt he tried fluorine -its a gas. Try fluoride.
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Which flouride smartie-pants :D ??

There are many flourides. Caclium flouride, sodium flouride etc etc etc. I'll bet my bottom dollar that any one of them which will release enough flourine into the sarcoid will work, which is why I used the word flourine, which is what I believe the active component is which is killing the sarcoid, and not flouride.

The halides are in general good poisons which is, I think, why flourine works against sarcoids just like chlorine worked against soldiers.
 
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anniearab said:
"Ask yourselves: if you had a skin cancer develop, say, on your arm, would you slap toothpaste on it and see what happened or would you be banging on your Dr's door demanding an urgent appointment with the best oncologist around?
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I'd try the toothpaste. By the time I'd be able to get an appointment with a GP I'd be dead anyway!! Plus the chemo is much more nasty and poisonous than a bit of toothpaste!!
 
Like your response cptrayes.
Made me smile.
Good lesson, if your not 100% sure of what your saying, don't get cocky on a public forum.
 
Interesting that many are reporting use of Zovirax - that is acyclovir 5%. An antiviral used for herpes but also active against papiloma virus which believed to be agent in causing sarcoids. If trying it and have a friendly vet then you get a much bigger tube of acyclovir for your money than you get of zovirax in Boots. Works on some in my experience. May as well try the cheapest version as it does take quite a long time to eradicate the wretched growths.
 
I don't dismiss anything as useless if other people have had good results, and as I said earlier toothpaste is used on the sensitive tissue of our mouths continually so is unlikely to do harm or cause pain even if it does no good.
As a matter of interest, and I have no idea if this Is relevant to this discussion, when I first read this thread I had an idea.
My friend has many warts on her hands and fingers, and I mean 30+. she has had them in greater or lesser numbers for 20 odd years. Has tried everything possible from recognised medication to wierd rituals involving horse hair, bacon and chanting (!!!!!!). Many alternative therapies at great expense sometimes. Most recently acupuncture. She is desperate to be rid of them.
So two weeks ago I suggested she put toothpaste on them.
She has four left and looking at them they won't be around much after this weekend.
I have no idea how or why, but she is over the moon.
 
cptrayes said:
Which flouride smartie-pants :D ??

There are many flourides. Caclium flouride, sodium flouride etc etc etc. I'll bet my bottom dollar that any one of them which will release enough flourine into the sarcoid will work, which is why I used the word flourine, which is what I believe the active component is which is killing the sarcoid, and not flouride.

The halides are in general good poisons which is, I think, why flourine works against sarcoids just like chlorine worked against soldiers.
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Now then not so smarty pants :) Its FLUORIDE not FLOURIDE!! The halides are funny old things. My girl has bromide every day as a medication. Bleach is good if used correctly, chlorine gas, well, fatal.
 
Apparently they don't manufacture Crest for the UK anymore, (I've seen it for sale in Wilkinsons though) but the manufacture of it has been transferred to Oral B; their Oral B Complete toothpaste is supposed to be the same formulation as Crest.

Now funnily enough I have a tube of the Oral B Expert Care which contains Stannous fluoride as well as the usual sodium fluoride, stannous fluoride has been shown to stop gingival bleeding, so I wonder if this is the ingredient that is making a difference:confused: No idea if this is in the Oral B complete as well though.
 
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