Large sarcoid and crest toothpaste, result!

[JoClark]

I bought a horse last year with one small occult sarcoid that the vet said not to worry about. Within 3 months of getting the horse home though, about 12 other sarcoids appeared. My vet confirmed they were sarcoids, we discussed all the options and I used Newmarket cream (aka blood root cream) on the larger ones. It was really effective and they dropped off within a couple of weeks but have made a lot of mess and scarring. I stopped using the cream because none of the sarcoids are near any tack, they made him sore or stressed, and I lost my nerve. He has now got at least 20 sarcoids, all very small and once the event season finishes I plan to have a go with toothpaste. My understanding is that it is the fluoride and you need very strong toothpaste. Supermarket toothpaste is typically 1200-1450ppm but my dentist has some at 2500ppm and I plan to try this. My only concern is that once a sarcoid is under threat, it makes others appear but I'm getting to the stage where they will affect my ability to ride him if I don't do something soon :-(

I think in this case the horse needs to relax in its new home and have his immune system brought up before treatment of any kind, however treating them while there small always seems to be the best option, even if they do come back, toothpaste and newmarket ointment isnt really costly compared to Liverpool cream.

I bought my boy in January 2012, I had him 5 stage vetted and he came up with a couple of sarcoids around his sheath, the owners paid for the liverpool cream and I took him after he was treated with proof from the vets it was done. From January until April there was only change in one of the sarcoids, a varicose sarcoid, that dropped off in may, the other nodular ones grew but did not fall off. I was going to wait until autumn for the next course of treatment so the flies dont get to them. In the mean time I have been exercising him and building his immune system up, he has been on Simple System feed, had NAF Biotin and Ragaid from Global Herbs which is a liver tonic with milk thistle; in early september i noticed some more nodular sarcoids had fallen off, I spoke to Liverpool sarcoid department about this and they said it would be unlikely the Liverpool cream administered in January would still be working. He still has sarcoids but they are mostly very small, there are only 2 nodular and 1 varicose that really need treating (not bigger than 20p-50p piece) I have been advised by a friends auntie who is an equine vet that Duraphat is good for removing sarcoids, Colgate Duraphat 5000, she did they wouldnt dissapear and stay away, in a lot of cases they do come back but it does keep them at bay. I discussed this with my vet and next week he is having the two nodular ones banded (my vet did advise me only band when you cant feel a big stem). There are currently Colgate Duraphat 5000 on ebay so i am going to buy some and put in on the Varicose sarcoid and see how it goes, if anyone is interested I can get pics. If it doesnt halm the skin I may put it on the tiny sarcoids too and hope they dont grow.

I would also be interested in a barrier for the sracoids in the summer so he doesnt have to go out fully covered up, I have a Snuggy Hoods fly rug which is fantastic however he does prefer to go out without anything on. If anyone knows on anything that wont irritate the sarcoid let me know. Thanks

 

[Jnhuk]

Colgate Duraphat 2800 and 5000 are prescription only based products due to the strength of the fluoride (2800ppm and 5000ppm) as they are double or quadruple strength to normal adult toothpastes so I am surprised that you can buy them off ebay - checked it out and £15!!!

Go and ask your dentist for a prescription should be a lot cheaper!!!!!

 

[Gucci_b]

Just out of interest, does anyone who has used the toothpaste taken any before and after photo's...

 

[jennaclare]

Thank god for this thread. My boy has had 3 lots of liverpool treatment, and laser treatment. A few went but more came back, he has LOADS.
Iv been giving him thuja tablets, echinacea supplement and applying thuja cream.
After reading this i have now ordered some crest tooth paste.
Heres my boys sarcoids (not all of them but most).

hind right leg

chest/neck

sheath

undersneath stomach

Hes got a bunch of them on the top of each front leg on the inside but im reluctant to post them pics because they look so ugly

 

[devonlass]

Sounds like too many good results to ignore,fingers crossed it helps all the horses and owners suffering with these miserable growths.

I am completely baffled at the few extreme reactions this topic has had.Surely as it won't do any harm it has to be worth a try?? Lot less toxic than many of the other recommended treatments,not to mention cheaper.No brainer if you ask me.

Not all sarcoids are dangerous forms of skin cancer anyway,like has been suggested by a few dramatic posts on here.Some are quite harmless and even vets will say to leave them alone unless interfering with tack causing irritation in some way.

Think whoever said there was no link with viruses is wrong,pretty sure they have now proven a link with some types of sarcoid and the bovine papilloma virus??

 

[JoClark]

Jennaclare, your boy seems to have a lot of them. They look similar to mine but he has no where near that many. I have looked up Echinacea and apparently it is not good for sarcoids. My boy had more when I bought him and like you the Liverpool cream hasn't done much. He is being exercised a lot more so is a lot fitter, he is on simple system feeds if you want to know exactly I can tell you. What seemed to make his start popping out was using Global Herbs Restore (liquid), I put him on the recommended dose and then lowered it after 2 weeks. After Approx 3 weeks I saw the sarcoids changing, getting smaller, being pushed out of the skin etc. At the time I didn't realise what it was, took him off it and the sarcoids have stayed the same, so I have just bought some more and will start again next week and take pics this time to track the difference. I would personally advise against thuja, works for some and not others. What do u feed your boy?
If you get the toothpaste only get the Colgate 5000, normal could make them worse.
I am not a vet or scientist, however I honestly believe the sarcoids start from a virus as the vets etc believe, now with humans if we get a virus and our immune system is compromised then the treatment won't work because our bodies are too weak to fight it. The horse surely must have his immune strengthened before you treat the sarcoid. A blood test would tell you what he's lacking or vets can give them an immune boosting injection. Then when the horse is happy and well it can be treated.
Does anyone else have any ideas?

 

[jennaclare]

I read a few places that said Echinacea was good for immune system and i know a few people who use it (along with other stuff). Interesting to hear that it makes them worse. Wont be purchasing anymore.
My boy is on quite a simple diet, high fibre chop with a powdered balancer. He isnt worked at the mo, but hes going away to be broken tomorrow, and then when he comes back he'll be turned away for the winter.
I have been worrying about turning him away in case they get worse. But ill still be going to visit him to give him his thuja tablets and put on the tooth paste. I ordered the one from the link that the OP put up but i also found some crest today in home and bargain for £1! I was pretty pleased with that because iv been looking for it in shops for a while now.
A few people have suggested Global Herbs Restore so may give that a try.

I know ALOT of people who have had fabulous results with thuja, so going to carry on with that for a while.

Aggree with you about the virus/immune system thing. But since having liverpool cream and laser treatment my boy will no longer tolerate vets. And he WONT have injections. Hes 16 hands and it was getting to the point were it was dangerous trying to inject him. So we give up trying (vet was trying to sedate him to band one of his sarcoids).

 

[JoClark]

I read Echinacea didnt help sarcoids on the global herbs website, also google and some other websites.

"Sarcoids - sarcoid skin lumps - are the most common type of skin tumour in horses. They are not cancerous but do cause a lot of problems in many horses. No one knows what causes them but it may be that they are started off by fly-bites and that there is so form of viral involvement when they are first formed. It is certainly true that weakness in the immune system makes Sarcoids worse. You may find that they increase in size after vaccination or other shocks to the system. Quite often the reason a given horse has Sarcoids is some underlying deficiency or concurrent disease.

Horse Sarcoids take many forms: flat bumpy areas of skin like Ringworm, crusty lumps like warts or smooth nodular growths. They are most commonly found underneath the belly, inside the thighs, behind the elbows and under the girth and also on the head and neck.

One of Sarcoids most worrying characteristics is the way that they spread out and grow back after being surgically removed.

Removal of Sarcoids is best decided by your vet. Special creams are available which burn away the affected tissue. Lumps can be frozen off and sometimes BCG vaccines are used to inject into the lump so that the body rejects it more effectively. One of the best ways of helping your horses body get rid of the problem is by boosting the immune system. We have found however that Echinacea products do not work very well in this regard. "
However I have no idea why it wouldnt work.

I also think you need to get him used to being touched around the sarcoid area again, it took my boy a while to let me run my hands around his back legs etc, just takes time. For example my boy doesnt like bags around him, he will stick his head in one if it has carrots but if you put one near him he doesnt like it so ive been holding feed and when he legs me rub it on him he gets the food, works a treat.

I personally try using one thing at a time for sarcoids, otherwise you dont know what has worked not to mention one thing can be helping and the other stopping it from working. Mine is going back on Restore Tonic at the end of the week so I will post pics of now and when they start changing, think it was 3 weeks last time.

I know yours is young and ive not had one that young before, could you break in, and lunge whilst being turned away? might be good for his fitness.

 

[jennaclare]

hes away being broken at the mo, and theres loads of hacking at the new field, so hopefully i should be able to hack him out ;D

 

[JoClark]

I have also found the ingredients of the Global Herbs RESTORE,

'Main ingredients; Eclipta Alba, Terminalia Chebula, Terminalia Arjuna, Ichnocarpus Frutescens, Aphanamixis Rohituka, Andrographis Paniculata, Sida Cordifolia, Swertia Chirata, Tephrosia Purpurea.'

4 ingredients are anti tumor/skin disease/cancer

The liver tonic is a lot better than the powder, It must be the way it enters the system.

Good luck

 

[jennaclare]

thanks, think i shall purchase some ofthat!

 

[JoClark]

Let me know if anything happens for you.

I have had mine back on it for 2 weeks, 25ml twice daily for a week then 10ml twice a day.
At the weekend one of them was crusting and looking like it will drop off, its quite stubborn this one though.
I'm back to the yard Thursday and will check it again.

 

[jennaclare]

just thought id let everyone know iv been applying crest to my horses sarcoids for 2 weeks now and there starting to flake away, i am amazed.
And for everyone that says i should have to vet see to them hes already had 2 courses of liverpool treatment as well as laser treatment, which has resulted in him hating the vet and me being unable to get a bridle on him (he had them in his ears too!)
After all the money that his previous owner spent on him i cant believe this is actually working!

 

[JoClark]

That's really good. My vet wouldn't do me a prescription so I haven't got any. What toothpaste have you been using? Is it the Duraphat. I've been using the Restore and his are crusting and coming off but slowly.

 

[jennaclare]

i havent tried the restore yet but iv just ordered some now so should be here in a few days, its the crest that i used i cant remember which one, will have a look when i go back down tomorrow.
I forgot to say i decided against turning him away and hes in work now, so i think that should help too!
I cant tell you how happy i was when i seen them flaking away tonight!

 

[pines of rome]

just thought id let everyone know iv been applying crest to my horses sarcoids for 2 weeks now and there starting to flake away, i am amazed.
And for everyone that says i should have to vet see to them hes already had 2 courses of liverpool treatment as well as laser treatment, which has resulted in him hating the vet and me being unable to get a bridle on him (he had them in his ears too!)
After all the money that his previous owner spent on him i cant believe this is actually working!

So pleased it is working for you too, I didn,t believe it would work either, I am pleased I started this thread now as it seems I have helped others by doing so!

 

[JoClark]

Can you let me know how you get on with the Restore too, obviously the tooth paste is working however the Restore should give him a boost and help his system fight them, I really think its fantastic stuff. I never use the granuals though. Also when they drop off let me know if the skin is pink or if another one comes through, I guess at least if the toothpaste is working it gives you a bit of control over them.
Ive just seen there is some duraphat on ebay so im going to buy some of that for his vericose that just doesnt want to come off.

 

[Charem]

Another here who has had success with Crest toothpaste!

Large sarcoid high up on the inside of my friend's horse's leg has pretty much fallen off since applying it.

 

[JoClark]

Does anyone know how much you are to put on? I have just ordered some Duraphat 5000 from eBay, comes to just under £10. I have heard the Colgate Duraphat is the best due to the ingredients. Just not sure how much to put on and if you remove the last lot before you put it on the next day? Thanks

 

[Springy]

If you read back it was saying twice a day and dont rub off old stuff

 

[ElvisandTilly]

Have read all these posts with much interest

Which crest did everyone use? Does it matter which one? Also the Duraphat is it the liquid mouthwash looking bottle on ebay or does it come in a paste?

If a liquid how often and how did you apply to the lump?

Have tried thuja and its not worked so going to try toothpaste.

 

[pines of rome]

I used crest original, put it on twice a day, no washing off and in two weeks it died and came off!

 

[JoClark]

The Duraphat is the prescription toothpaste not the mouthwash. Its stronger than crest, so if that doesn't work try the Duraphat. When it comes off check that there is clean skin with nothing left, one of my boys has dropped off and left a tiny dot of sarcoid,so it's going to get battered lol

 

[ElvisandTilly]

Where did you get the Crest Original from as I can't find any original. Plenty of Crest 3D on ebay!

Which Crest toothpaste has everyone used and where did you get it from?

Cheers

Will give it a go and let you all know the results

 

[pines of rome]

This is the one I used which worked!http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rc...3YD4Aw&usg=AFQjCNGdDnjz0kQ3L-Feb_Neh_g8ENQ_3g

 

[brucea]

Same here with my youngster - he had a few nodules on his sheath and Tesco toothpaste worked - took a few weeks but worked. Minty fresh man bits.

Box of Frogs - understand your concerns, but it's a benign approach and it does seem to work.

Map and terrain time.

 

[FfionWinnie]

Has no one taken photos of the process??

 

[Aspire]

How do I post pics on this topic?

 

[Passtheshampoo]

The interesting thing with this sarcoid was that before the toothpaste was put on it looked very healthy attached to the skin with no neck which was why it was not viable for banding, after a week of the toothpaste it looked withered and not so firmly attached!
I read an awful lot about this form of treatment and i found that at worse it would do nothing, but a lot of people said it worked, I also covered surrounding areas in sudocrem in case it stung, my boy did not seem at all bothered by having it put on and he is a thin skinned T.B

My mare who had Liverpool Cream applied was in so much pain she wouldn't let me near her after her vet treatment. I was unable to apply equigel to keep the flies off as she thought I was going to hurt her. I would have applied toothpaste had I known it can work in some cases.

 

[dollymix]

My old mare had three sarcoids. One under her belly, one high up on her inner thigh and another on her face, just above her eye

We treated the one on her face with Zovirax and the other two with Liverpool cream (all were photographed and sent to Liverpool -this was also about 10yrs ago)

The one on her eye got really very sore before it got better. But the two treated with Liverpool cream responded brilliantly and she was not bothered by them in the slightest. Her poor eye was the problem and as summer was approaching I said I wanted to leave it to settle down and scab over, and we would try treating her again in autumn when there were less flies to aggravate it. Vet at the time was a bit uppity but relented.
Guess what? After the scab fell off her face it was gone! So glad we rested it a while as the treatment really was making her unhappy
10yrscon and (touching wood) none of them have returned...