Laws On Farriery

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Mosh

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I can't sleep and a random question popped into my head and its possibly a very dumb question.
Are you allowed to trim your own horses feet, if you don't have any qualifications in farriery? and you only trim your horses feet?
I'm pretty sure you're not allowed or it wouldn't be a good idea in the first place with no experience etc.

I don't have any intention of doing this by the way! Be too scared to do it!
Just wondering on a rather boring saturday night.
 
Yes, you are allowed to trim your own horses feet as long as it is not in preparation for shoeing.
 
that would explain that one then.
I couldn't sleep and confused myself about it, Its not that hard to do in fairness
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That will clear up sme arguements and debates at the yard about it then as well
Thanks Little_Donkey
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There is a course on barefoot triming,

but as a farriers other half i must stress farriers go through 4 years of training to understand the balance and wellbeing of the foot

there has been a lot of people who have tried this and had very lame ponys

not that i'm all for shoes etc mines not had them on for a year and a half and does everything

xx
 
It is a loop hole in the law as a matter of fact but yes its true as long as there is no application of shoes.

However any farrier would advise against it as we spend a long time studying every nerve through muscle through bones etc to make sure we know what we are doing
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Blimey I was only thinking the same (or very similar) thought this morning! Do barefoot trimmers belong to any kind of society, like farriers do, what training do they have and how long do they train?

Not that I intend to do trimming or go barefoot, my boy is too much of softy in the foot area to go barefoot, but there are a couple of people on my yard who do and I was just thinking about how qualified (or not) their trimmer is.

Edited to say [ QUOTE ]

However any farrier would advise against it as we spend a long time studying every nerve through muscle through bones etc to make sure we know what we are doing
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[/ QUOTE ]

This was my thinking behind my thoughts (if you get what I mean LOL)
 
[ QUOTE ]
However any farrier would advise against it as we spend a long time studying every nerve through muscle through bones etc to make sure we know what we are doing
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[/ QUOTE ]

Well, down under our laws are quite different! ANYONE can shoe or trim and it leads to some absoloute shockers!

...But as a Master Farrier I quite often train people in the basics of trimming, and while I'd never suggest an untrained person shoe, I quite regularly have people who I've taught the basics trim their horse and I will do, say, every third trim to check up on things before they go too far off track or to catch any developing problems or potential problems. It doesn't take years of training and study to "keep this exact angle and this exact length, never trim past this point, any qestions call me and I'll be straight out"

Basic trims, on a sound horse, with good hooves and normal conformation and movement are no great mystery and we do owners a disservice if we pretend otherwise! Sure they are still hard work and you need SOME knowledge, but regular slight trimming by a conciencious owner and occasional proffesional check up is better than overlong hooves trimmed a couple of times a year when they get ridiculous!

I always train owners to be especialy conservative in their trimming and never to "chase the other hoof" in balance, so should they stuff up I have a little more length to work with in correcting errors!

Of course anything other than "normal" I say leave it to the pro!
 
[ QUOTE ]
Blimey I was only thinking the same (or very similar) thought this morning! Do barefoot trimmers belong to any kind of society, like farriers do, what training do they have and how long do they train?

Not that I intend to do trimming or go barefoot, my boy is too much of softy in the foot area to go barefoot, but there are a couple of people on my yard who do and I was just thinking about how qualified (or not) their trimmer is.

Edited to say [ QUOTE ]

However any farrier would advise against it as we spend a long time studying every nerve through muscle through bones etc to make sure we know what we are doing
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[/ QUOTE ]

This was my thinking behind my thoughts (if you get what I mean LOL)

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I have done a bit of research into this and the maximum training they can do is apparently two year worth.

in practice though its a two week course and they can go and trim their own horses and whats even worse is get money for doing it on others

I dont actually have a problem with anyone wanting to trim their OWN but since it only costs £15 a trim every 8 or so weeks i believe that having a professional do it is the better choice.

The problem we farriers have with barefoot trimmers is that they effectively slag off what we do as incorrect to push their own methods (and what they are doing is generally a basic grass turn out trim) and charging through the nose for it!! I dont think this is professional imho
 
i have seen ''trimmer'' courses that are as short as three days! and then these people can charge others to do the same on their horses. they are not monitored or regulated over here
 
There are currently arguments between the FRC and 'trimmers' as the FRC wants all trimmers to be regulated (as they should) and the FRC wants them to come under their umbrella, but trimmers want none of it.
It really annoys me when bare footers claim that farriers can only do 'paddock' trims and such a horse can't work, what rubbish!!
(PS, only ever had one of my animals shod, and they do or have all undertaken carriage driving on the roads perfectly well.)
 
[ QUOTE ]
There are currently arguments between the FRC and 'trimmers' as the FRC wants all trimmers to be regulated (as they should) and the FRC wants them to come under their umbrella, but trimmers want none of it.
It really annoys me when bare footers claim that farriers can only do 'paddock' trims and such a horse can't work, what rubbish!!
(PS, only ever had one of my animals shod, and they do or have all undertaken carriage driving on the roads perfectly well.)

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Exactly! i believe that they would have to do training to a similar standard that we do as well.

this is what we dont like about them, insinuating we dont know what we are doing. Good shoeing... it starts with GOOD trimming!! i trim any horse well regardless of wether or not i put shoes on it!
 
The trimmers I have used have received extensive training and also they have been a most intelligent bunch - with degrees in various subjects and they have studied long and hard on the theory. There is still this misconception that you can go on a 3 day course and go out and trim - rubbish. There are courses, but the three day ones are mostly theory with some disection and maybe a bit of trimming on a dead hoof.

Any skill improves with use and I think gekko has it about right. An owner can give a conservative trim, but it does need checking over by an expert who is seeeing lots of different horses every day. Every horse is different and to apply one "pattern" to any horse might lead to problems, you have to take into account the individual. The difference made by the experienced trimmer (whether farrier or trimmer) may be subtle but important.

I have had horses made sore by a farrier, but never by a trimmer.
 
a farrier trims to put a shoe on, a barefoot trimmer trims to be barefoot (big difference), also how many people have a dentist for there horse???? and how many rules and regulations do they have in place???? none
 
Ponyattack, I'll disagree with you! A farrier trim to put on a shoe.....or to work barefoot....or to be turned out...or to correct a problem .....or to avoid one in the first place....or.......

It's NOT all the same and if you believe "only a barefooter can trim to ride barefoot you have been sucked in by the cult and given up reasonable and balanced thought on the issue entirely!

...and here atleast, equine dentists come under the same level of control as farriers and within their professional society, a lot more, with much higher standards of required qualification.
 
Thank you Gekko!

A farrier trims for every thing including remedial work, do you also believe that remedial is onyl about shoeing?
Exactly what Gekko said is what we trim for and guess what, we trim for horses to go barefoot, do a good job and charge at least half of what a barefoot trimmer does.

It does seem to smack of cultishness to me Gekko
 
why cant people give barefoot trimmers a chance, it costs me £25 a time and I havent had shoes on her for 4 years and her feet havent looked better. I dont have to worry about shoes coming off, I can hack out just as much it not more than others, dont have to worry about ice build up when it snows!!

I bet the first person to put a shoe on a horse came up against the same negativeness that you lot are throwing at trimmers.

Times change people want a different option than a shoe (which a fully trained barefoot trimmer offers, which mine is after training for 5years...yes 5 years).

there is only one reason and one reason only that "farriers" disagree with barefoot trimmers, they are scared they are going to lose business, (£££).

And what is all this about a cult????
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What dribble! It's about PROPERLY trained people doing whats best for the horse! ...which may well be leaving unshod!
Farriers you will find, have all the business they want! ..and MORE! Waiting lists! Offers of bribery, sexual favours to get a set of shoes!(Ok so We can dream! )
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Honestly for many people(and you are exhibiting symptoms I've seen in others) they DO get hooked into the whole barefoot carry on in manner in a way that carries all the traits of a cult! Farriers have been trimming for unshod riding since day dot...we just havn't turned it into a religous experience with the whole "born again, seen the light, praise be to the barefoot trimmer" luggage tacked on!

I've done my own little sociological study with some remarkable results....

A little work revealed a strong correlation between the barefoot disciples, Parrelli (and other forms of "NH") rope twirlers, those who reject vet medicines in favour of herbs, magnets, crystals and homeophathy etc....and the strangest result of my investigations? The correlation also extends to born again god botherers!
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So my conclusion from all of this? there exists a type of person or mindset who "jumps on the bandwagon" in a very full on way with every oportunity that arrises for a "new thing" even if unsupported by evidence(or supported by dodgy misinterpreted "evidence" ...and often it's not "new" just relabled!) and takes it to extremes with a need to "save" others!
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Honestly, look up the factors that define a cult guys and look around you at the types of fads marketed and the people who go for them...you will see the connections!
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I would like to know which course it is that lasts for 3 days and sends people out to charge for their services as barefoot trimmers. I've searched and searched, but can't find any, so if someone could give details that would be great, always good to be able to warn people about what to avoid.
The lady who trims my horses does them for £20 each, and has studied with various people over the last 3 years, I have faith in her, but not all trimmers. The same goes for farriers. I had a farrier that did a good regular trim and kept my horses sound for work, when he moved away I couldn't find one who would treat my barefoot horses as seriously as the shod horses they worked with. That is why I have got a trimmer now.
I think this is a step in the right direction, a proper trimming course with lots of the right study, and on-going work after. http://www.barehoof.com/England_School.html
This man also does courses specifically to help people to trim their own horses, I can't remember if they last 3 or 5 days, but as the farrier says above, it is possible to teach owners to maintain their own horses hooves relatively easily. My friend went on one of these courses and at the end it was decided she shouldn't trim her horse, because his hooves needed remedial trimming on a long-term basis. The course enabled her to be informed enough to understand this.
Good and bad in everything isn't there?
 
Just remeber that I said I showed them how to maintain trims BETWEEN visits from me the PROFESSIONAL!

I still don't feel it's responsible to send an ammature out to trim totally unspervised and to be honest, no matter what you may think there ARE many folks who set themselves up as a "trained barefoot trimmer" after a very minimal amount of training!
Even the folks who claim to have completed a "year long" course have often completed two weeks of hands on training accompanied with another 50 weeks of "theory" sorry but thats ass about! I can teach you the theory in 2 weeks but it will take you the 50 weeks(and more) to develop the actual skills!
 
No use shouting farrier, I can't actually hear you.
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The idea of the Guerrera courses for owners is that they are also supported by him and his trained trimmers. Sorry I didn't make that clear.
There may be people who claim to be something they are not, but my question is - which 3 day course is running where people are actually told that they are qualified to trim professionally at the end?
I think it is a real shame that there are so many farriers who don't take this seriously, if they did then the market wouldn't be open for the trimmers would it? After my old farrier moved away I rang the farrier he recommended, but he said it wasn't worth visiting me (within 10 miles of his house!) for 3 trims. I rang all around and eventually found a farrier who would come. He was very unreliable, but he would always come eventually. The problem was, he didn't take our appointments seriously. He thought nothing of cancelling an appointment and eventually coming 3 weeks later. He said "they'll be fine", but they weren't. He would book my trims at the end of the day, so he could ring me and say he'd got held up with some shoeing and would have to reschedule. When your horses work with no shoes, they need proper regular maintenance. I also couldn't get him to address flare, and you know the impact that has on the hoof. So eventually I had to part with him and go with the trimmer. My horse's hooves have never looked better, so that has worked for me.
 
bravo Woeisme, I have also tried to find a course that runs for 3 days and lets you go and charge for trimming, can i find one, can i f...... anyway.

Farriers in my experience always want a horse to have shoes, the old farrier i had 4year ago even after I lost 2 shoes in 2 weeks that ripped half her foot away I asked if it would be worth keeping her barefoot to get some growth and he didnt even think about it just wanted to chuck a shoe back on, its all about the money that's why they dont want barefoot trimmers to get the same recognition as farriers!!
 
Until someone comes up with evidence of this course, I'm treating it as a legend. I've asked on forums and nobody has been able to back this claim up, although it almost always gets trotted out on every "barefoot" discussion.
I'm not against farriers, as I said, I did once have one who was brilliant. He was punctual, helpful, cared about the horses and took trimming very seriously. I would have been perfectly happy if I'd been able to find another like him.
Farriers need to realise that people will choose to vote with their feet. There are bad trimmers who damage horse's feet, but I'm afraid there are also bad farriers. For example, my friend pointed out to her farrier that he was "chasing the toe" when trimming her ponies, so he sulked and decided to correct the problem in one trimming. Leaving both ponies sore because he had dumped the toe. I could trot out more such examples.
On the other side of the coin, I think people are now starting to be aware that they need to be very, very careful before using a Strasser trained trimmer. And if they see anyone carving their horse's foot to change the shape - something is wrong. And if their horse is sore after a visit from a farrier or trimmer, then also they need to be wary.
We all need to get educated about our horse's hooves so that we understand what is going on and can intelligently discuss the care they are give. If you get a good farrier or trimmer then they are gold dust, so hang on to them. If you're not happy then follow your instinct.
 
Do you not understand that there ARE people who complete a weekend "trim your own horse" course and start trimming?
And of course when they say "I'm trained" they are not REALLY lying, just exagerating and failing to mention it was inadequate training.

Id suggest that if in "your experience" farriers only want to shoe, that you need much wider experience!
I'll bet I was shoeing horse before your birth, and in MY experience most farriers preffer to leave a horse unshod where possible and where the owner allows! Hell, I even try to convince owners to leave shoes off wherever possible if I believe the horse will cope with the level of work and the terrain!
It's less work!
 
YOU REALLY DON'T GET IT DO YOU?
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Have you ever seen the weekend courses advertised at all? Beleive that people ever take on an overstated belief in their own abilities?
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The problem is people are trimming without training because there is NO rule AT ALL to stop them!
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I know of one person who actually did NO training...they simply watched their own horse trimmed a few times and then practiced on their horse a few times before trimming a friends horse for free,,grew to a few freebies for a few friends and then they went "I can do this and charge for it!" Woohoo!
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I became involved when I was called to consult by a vet dealing with a crippled horse...the zero training is direct from the persons mouth! So why do you find it hard to believe that people would trim without proper training? People will do anything for a $....hell they will even buy foreign meat horses and sell them as rescues to unsuspecting suckers! How about THAT for unbelievable???
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...or maybe you have fallen for a cult like belief that rejects all questioning and independant thought?
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Is it based in FRANCH?
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Calm down mate. I check the credentials of everyone who gets their hands on my horses, including farriers, so nobody who has done a 3 day course would get anywhere near. In fact, I have little sympathy for people who get taken in by wannabees and frauds.
The point about this 3 day course is not that people might do such a course and then make exagerated claims about their abilities. The point is that, time and time again, it is claimed that the people running 3 day courses TELL the students that they will then be experienced enought to trim professionally. That is the legend we are trying and failing to track down.
You are in South Australia Gekko, I don't know why you are getting so wound up by the situation in the UK. Where you live it's not even illegal for people to shoe their own horses.
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Over here I think the farriers need to climb down off their high horses (forgive me that pun!) and accept that there are others out there who can do this job. It's not that hard, and as farriers are overwhelmed with work (which is why they can afford to be so casual about customer care) they aren't even in competition. I've seen a farrier and KC trimmer co-operate on a very bad case of navicular, and it worked out well for the horse.
 
Well, for what it is worth, I would never let anyone other than my wonderful, fully trained farrier go near my horses feet. Why would i? What can a barefoot trimmer do that he can't? I have one shod and one barefoot. He does both and he has never tried to talk me into putting shoes on him. He did them on Sunday and commented on how brilliant his feet were looking. I would never want to trim their feet myself in case i made a mistake and crippled them.
I don't think that our farriers are on their 'high horses', I think they care about their profession and the horses that they shoe and it is them who have to pick up the pieces when someone has made a mess of it.
Remember that old saying 'no foot no horse'
 
I've already explained why I use a very experienced trimmer for my horses.
And I have spoken to farriers who most certainly were on their high horses about barefoot trimmers, I'd say they also had bees in their bonnets too - bless 'em.
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Again you've missed the point and are after something that I was never looking for!
I've never heard of one of these short courses saying "you are now ready to go and trim other peoples horses for $" either....and if you rean my posts you will see I have NEVER made that claim, it's not MY invention!

What they ARE being told though is "You can now trim your own horse"...and even that is dangerous!.....and as I said, doesn't take much for idiots to expand "trim your own" to "trim any bloody thing that comes along if theres$ in it"

It is happening and the same problem is experienced everywhere, you do not have it to yourself in the UK!

But again you miss the point in that I will protest the use of poorly trained persons wether it's nailing on a shoe or trimming....One day I may tell you about the client who's non-horsey BF watched me shoe a couple of times and thought he could save her some money by doing the next lot for her....he was so proud that when HE did it "the nails didn't come out like they did when I did!" Hell, I knew I was doing something wrong!

You've picked the farrier to argue with that barefoot is wonderfull in the right circumstances for the right horse...with 39 horses here at home and several of them in full work guess how many have shoes?











None.
Yep I'm all about putting shoes on everything no matter what!
 
I have to second what Gekko says once again.

And i have many clients whose horses feet are in bad shape (too bad to go barefoot) and almost too bad to have shoes but because they cant handle the resting period it requires for the good hoof to come through they keep on with the shoes.

You are tarring all farriers with the same brush because you found one or two bad ones, well i have never come across a good barefoot trimmer and would like to add that i treat all my clients the same and i actually love doing the trims.

What we farriers have against barefoot trimmers is that they use (i wont say again what Gekko did about cultishness) the argument that shoes are evil and that FARRIERS dont know how to trim!! who do you think 'invented for lack of better word' the original barefoot trim.... hang on.... a FARRIER. But of course we dont know how to trim so a barefoot trimmer can come and actively take our business (which let me tell you is an unspoken rule amongst farriers, we can advertise and what not but you DO NOT take someone elses business its just bad faith) and call us lousy at the same time,to drum upbusiness for themselves. Its bad business practice

Gekko is also right that they can do no training and call themselves a trimmer. We are highly regulated but they are not? again so wrong on so many levels and in so many ways.

What do barefoot trimmers know about remedial work?? careful about using strausser? the woman believes that a horse has to be in pain for it to heal. First do no harm does not just apply to doctors. I would nto touch her with a ten foot barge pole. Vote with your horses feet if you will, no one is stopping you
 
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