JoJo_
Well-Known Member
The heat generated from your heavyweight will not travel freely through your 100g stable rug to make your horse toasty warm. Liners do allow this.
Layering up with rugs..?
- Thread starter naza
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The heat generated from your heavyweight will not travel freely through your 100g stable rug to make your horse toasty warm. Liners do allow this.
TGM
Well-Known Member
But the heavyweight rug is not generating any heat (unless it incorporates an electric blanket)! The horse's body generates heat, and the rugs help keep that warmth in!
JoJo_
Well-Known Member
Yes the outer shell traps the heat. By using a LW stable rug you are stopping the benefit of the HW rug.
Ok you wouldnt wear two waterproof jackets one on top of the other as the second jacket wouldnt help warm you up. You would wear a fleece under your jacket and the fleece is breathable.
Maybe it would be better to google the science behind the liner system of horseware/P.E etc to understand this. There are probably diagrams regarding the physics of it.
TGM
Well-Known Member
I wouldn't wear two waterproof jackets because it would be uncomfortable! But that analogy is not really relevant anyway as would be the equivalent of putting two turnout rugs on top of each other. A stable rug under a turnout is the equivalent of a padded gilet under a waterproof jacket, which I have done and definitely keeps me toasty!
JoJo_
Well-Known Member
Believe whatever you want to believe TGM. The analogy was not about comfort it was about the science of heat convection so yes it is very relevant. Believe it or not rug companies dont create rugs simply based on what would look pretty and be comfortable. There is a lot of science involved too. The rug liner system would never have been created had what i'm saying not been true.
TGM
Well-Known Member
The mention of comfort was an aside! A padded gilet will still keep you warm under a waterproof coat - that is relevant to heat retention and rugs! And as you will see, I have mentioned some of the benefits of liner systems in one of my posts above. That said, people did manage to keep their horses warm before they were invented!
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JoJo_
Well-Known Member
Most padded gilets have similar material to liners though other than the waterproof ones which are designed to be outer wear.
NinjaPony
Well-Known Member
But my stable rug is made from the same material as my liner..... Only difference is the fitting...
TGM
Well-Known Member
And gilets are similar to stable rugs as well! As I said above, I don't deny liners are useful as I use them myself - but because they fit the shape of the outer rugs nicely and don't dangle in the mud, rather than they have magical heat retention qualities than other rugs don't.
Pinkvboots
Well-Known Member
I have to agree with jojo on the liner debate I am afraid, all the liners I have seen don't have a nylon outer that is for a reason, because the nylon stops the warmth getting into the rug above there is nothing magical about it cotton breathes nylon doesn't.
dorito
Well-Known Member
As I understand it, most 'modern' turnouts will have a breathable outer and this has been the case for many years?
What friends of mine do with their clipped horses that live out 24/7, and obvs according to the conditions - is to have an under layer, e.g. a thin quilted stable rug, plus a heavyweight turnout with neck, plus a thin no-fill , no-neck turnout on top. This layer doesn't add much weight or warmth but does keep the worst of the rain off the main turnout rug. It can be changed/dried out more easily than the main turnout too.
It works very well and horses are obviously frequently checked for being warm enough/not warm enough/ too warm.
What friends of mine do with their clipped horses that live out 24/7, and obvs according to the conditions - is to have an under layer, e.g. a thin quilted stable rug, plus a heavyweight turnout with neck, plus a thin no-fill , no-neck turnout on top. This layer doesn't add much weight or warmth but does keep the worst of the rain off the main turnout rug. It can be changed/dried out more easily than the main turnout too.
It works very well and horses are obviously frequently checked for being warm enough/not warm enough/ too warm.
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TGM
Well-Known Member
I don't know about other brands but Horseware liners have a polyester outer, not cotton:
http://www.horseware.com/products/aw14/forhorses/liners/horseware-liner.html
JoJo_
Well-Known Member
I think the weatherbeeta underrug I have is cotton but the horseware liner is different. Its quite easy to tell which is a stable rug from the outer shell. The warmth flowing freely through the underrug is the key difference between stable rug and underrug. Liners/underrugs work much 'better' than stable rugs as an under layer.
I really dont know how else to explain this. Give a few rug companies a call and i'm sure they will explain the technology and benefits of liners/underrugs as opposed to stable rugs as an under layer if you dont believe me.
I really dont know how else to explain this. Give a few rug companies a call and i'm sure they will explain the technology and benefits of liners/underrugs as opposed to stable rugs as an under layer if you dont believe me.
GinaGeo
Well-Known Member
I'm rugging according to need. The old guy is unrugged, naked and looking well for it. The fully clipped out Connemara is in a 200g stable rug with a 200g full neck turnout out on top. If it warms up at all he'll have the stable off a he keeps quite warm.
The eventer also fully clipped out, when turned out has a 200g stable with a 250g full neck turnout on top. At night he's having the 200g stable, a 350g stable and a 200g full neck stable. During the day he keeps himself warm moving about. At night when he's just stood he gets cold, and it's quite obvious in the morning that he's been trying to warm himself up. He digs his bed up, rolls and is very grumpy come morning. He has in the past wintered out naked, but without any hair requires more help!
The eventer also fully clipped out, when turned out has a 200g stable with a 250g full neck turnout on top. At night he's having the 200g stable, a 350g stable and a 200g full neck stable. During the day he keeps himself warm moving about. At night when he's just stood he gets cold, and it's quite obvious in the morning that he's been trying to warm himself up. He digs his bed up, rolls and is very grumpy come morning. He has in the past wintered out naked, but without any hair requires more help!
TGM
Well-Known Member
The outer shell of my 'stable rug' is the same as the outer shell of my 'liner rug', and NinjaPony states the same in her post above also!
JoJo_
Well-Known Member
What rugs have you got? There should be something different to make one a liner and one a stable rug.
Moya_999
Well-Known Member
I refuse to put more than two rugs on at anyone time. I feel its not fair weigh the horse down, I use a 40g - 200g-350g-400g with an under rug that is all as that sufices them in all weather.
One of my pet hates is when people use 2 or three stable rugs to layer up, all this does is put weight on the horses back not warmth as stable rugs are designed not to let the heat escape through the top external layer. So between layer one its warm but the above layers its cool air unless you use an under rug.
This is after many many years of testing and results
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JoJo_
Well-Known Member
Thankyou Moya you understand the art of rugging!
dorito
Well-Known Member
I am genuinely puzzled, is there a new type (in the last 10 years or so) of stable rug that has a non-breathable top layer?
To me, anything that isn't a turnout is a stable rug, be that a fleece, quilt, thermatex or whatever and all are AFAIK breathable? Being breathable doesn't stop them from keeping a the horse warm and certainly a fleece plus thermatex or quilt kept my horse warmer than either would alone.
You can probably guess I haven't actually bought a stable rug for a long time....
marmalade76
Well-Known Member
Thanks guys! Will do what I've always previously done and get a normal under rugit's only because someon said to me the other day that they use 2x turnout when it's wet to stop the rug underneath getting wet :?
Yet, two rugs are far less likely to let wet through than one, regardless of whether the under rug is waterproof or not.
I also like the rugs with liners, I have a couple of 100g outer rugs and a light (100g) and heavy (300g) liners so my horse can have rugs of 100, 200 and 300g depending on the weather and all will fit in my washing machine
Not sorry I haven't had to get out the all in one heavyweight rug for a long time (I have kept it as it is an older Rambo and therefore better than the ones you can buy now and will last for years).I never attach my liners to the outer rugs 'cause I like to put them on and off one at a time. I just add a fillet string to the liners and this is enough to keep them on (haven't lost one or had one slip yet). I would never use a fleece or woolly rug as an under rug for turn out, they are not designed for this and slip, stretch and rub.
glamourpuss
Well-Known Member
I think some people are getting confused on this thread about what rugs actually do.
Rugs work by trapping the warm air emitted by the horse I.e stops the heat generated by the horse's metabolism being moved away (by wind etc)
They also trap air next to the horse. Air is poor conductor of heat so again it keeps the warmth next to the horse.
What the outer material a rug is made from is irrelevant, you don't want air moving freely between layers, this just causes heat transfer to the outside of the rug!
The only thing that matters is the insulation provided by the rugs you use whether they be stable rugs, liners or layered turnouts.
The ONLY advantage of using a proper rugging system with branded liners is it reduces the chance of under rugs slipping. There are no thermal advantages at all from them!
Of course rug companies will tell you there are, they want you to buy the rug liners in addition to stable rugs not just stable rugs!
Rugs work by trapping the warm air emitted by the horse I.e stops the heat generated by the horse's metabolism being moved away (by wind etc)
They also trap air next to the horse. Air is poor conductor of heat so again it keeps the warmth next to the horse.
What the outer material a rug is made from is irrelevant, you don't want air moving freely between layers, this just causes heat transfer to the outside of the rug!
The only thing that matters is the insulation provided by the rugs you use whether they be stable rugs, liners or layered turnouts.
The ONLY advantage of using a proper rugging system with branded liners is it reduces the chance of under rugs slipping. There are no thermal advantages at all from them!
Of course rug companies will tell you there are, they want you to buy the rug liners in addition to stable rugs not just stable rugs!
marmalade76
Well-Known Member
Totally agree.
I used to use lightweight stable rugs as under rugs with turnouts long before these liners were available. Back then there were either stable rugs (like a sleeping bag) and duvet style under rugs by Rambo that were all cotton.
Tiddlypom
Carries on creakily
The fact that a liner doesn't slip, whereas a separate rug will, is IMHO a pretty major advantage. A slipping under rug is a deal breaker in my book.
Also, a liner is lighter than an equivalent stable rug, as it does not have to be so robust, so the horse can move around more freely.
I'm not one for jumping on a fashion bandwagon, but detachable liners are a brilliant step forward.
glamourpuss
Well-Known Member
Yes! Also what people are forgetting is that even a waterproof layer will still allow heat movement & loss. That's why these theories of not using stable rugs under turn outs doesn't work!
Try it for yourself...tomorrow morning just go out in a cagul. Nothing else underneath.
Now if what jojo etc are saying is true & that this waterproof layer keeps heat in then surely this will keep you warm. Except it won't. Your body heat will still radiate out & be lost.
Then put a fleece over the cagul. I can guarantee this will make you feel warmer. The materials are irrelevant it's just about trapping the layers of air to slow down heat movement away from the body. Surely it's simple!
Try it for yourself...tomorrow morning just go out in a cagul. Nothing else underneath.
Now if what jojo etc are saying is true & that this waterproof layer keeps heat in then surely this will keep you warm. Except it won't. Your body heat will still radiate out & be lost.
Then put a fleece over the cagul. I can guarantee this will make you feel warmer. The materials are irrelevant it's just about trapping the layers of air to slow down heat movement away from the body. Surely it's simple!
glamourpuss
Well-Known Member
Oh I agree, I have a rugging system with liners, but there are no thermo benefits to the liners (no matter what pseudoscience the rug companies try & use) it's just the convenience & prevention of slipping why they work.
TGM
Well-Known Member
Thank you Glamourpuss - just what I was trying to say but you express it far more clearly!
JoJo_
Well-Known Member
Thats not what I was saying though... I guarentee a horse wearing a liner/underrug will be warmer than when it is wearing a stable rug under a turnout.
Moya_999
Well-Known Member
exactly what I am getting at too ^5 Jojo . Same as wearing two stables rugs or 3 or 4 stable rugs is not as warm as wearing a under rug with a stable rug or under rug with a turn out
marmalade76
Well-Known Member
Sorry, but I'm not buying that.
Moya_999
Well-Known Member
not buying what???
that an under rug makes a horse warmer than putting 2 stables on that have the shinny outter layer??
We have done numerous test in our yard and that speaks for itself every horse which had an underrug was warmer than the one who had 2 stable rugs
and if you bother to put your hand between the layers when your horse wears 3 stable rugs as in the shinny top rug the air is cooler between the two upper most rugs.
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