Learned Helplessness

[ester]

I do get concerned about the amount of tying up that goes on these days. If you tie up, especially cross tie, to do anything with the horse, how is it supposed to tell you that it doesn't want to be washed, groomed, or saddled? I never tie up to tack up. The day a horse turns away when it sees its tack is the day you need to investigate why.

This made me chuckle a bit, Frank used to take that to the next level and was the only horse on the yard to escape back into his stable (while still attached to the tie ring outside).

 

[ycbm]

This made me chuckle a bit, Frank used to take that to the next level and was the only horse on the yard to escape back into his stable (while still attached to the tie ring outside).

There always one isn't there Ester 😂. I know you will have made sure it was just his sense of humour!

 

[ester]

it only worked because he's such a short arse (lengthways), I'd tack up and pop to the loo and find him stood back in the stable looking at me. I used to put the chain up to stop him doing it but I'm sure he limboed under that one day (without tack!), never did it coming out. It amused everyone else anyway!

 

[honetpot]

I don't tie up to do much other than have them shod either, tbh I don't think that's a great diagnostic because they've learnt one way or another to stand still when I'm doing stuff to them.

I think horses are cooperative, that is clear. But I still think we massively take advantage of that, don't always honour our side of the bargain and I do think there's an uncomfortable truth there, the reason lots of horses accept lots of bad riding is that they don't think they have an alternative, when in fact they could easily ditch their rider and run to freedom.

it's easy to sit here and think to myself that I try and train my horses in the most horse friendly way I can think of, but when all is said and done they have *no alternative*, they are trapped in the life they have. From my POV as a free human with autonomy I tell myself that they don't do too badly out of me, I bend over backwards to try and keep them well... but Kira's life before me was untouched in a field for 3 years and I'd be a fool to think she didn't prefer that! When i came along, her options boiled down to get with it or get put down. Cooperative or not, that's a stark choice really!

I think every horse has a choice and most will make their opinions felt, but just like people their different temperaments decides how far they will go to show their displeasure.
When I was a young teenager I rode for a small dealer. He would buy ponies and we would have them for however long it took to resell them, there was no time limit. I could not ride very well, I learnt mostly from books, but usually we could get them that they would do anything to a reasonable standard for the time, and the ones and I my friends did never came back once sold, and often people came for their next pony once the last one was outgrown.
Some of the older riders would use violence to try and get some them to do things, which never really worked and some horses would fight back. These were animals that even a real beating would stand their ground, and even the ones that were compliant on the ground would ditch them. These were usually high value animals that had ended up with a low priced dealer and no amount of 'sorting', was going to sort them.
I have bought back a pony I used to own, and he has obviously learnt how to manipulate people, he is talented but will only do so much. If he was a large horse perhaps someone could try and make him do things, but I think he has been so nagged a some point that he becomes aggressive and bucks. He is not the happy pony I knew as a three year old, he just wants to be left alone and prefers his own company, he now not that keen on other ponies either, when he used to socialise and play as a young pony.
I would love to know what the trigger was for his problems, he competed at a fairly high level, and seems to have homes that have cared about him enough to vaccinate him, but the amount of homes he has had makes me think his problem is a long standing one.
He whinnied at me this morning, I know it was only because I had food but its the first time he has shown any pleasure in the 9 months since I got him back and that with 24/7 turnout and no pressure.

 

[Goldenstar]

Mine is interesting that way. If we're in the arena, strolling around on a loose rein, and there are jumps up, he'll try to zoom over them 😁

My experience has been in ish and Irish draughts. The ones I've known have all loved galloping and jumping.
I wonder is that because that type are bred to be hunters or is it simply because they are athletic.

I have had lots of horses who take you over jumps .
The most commmited to it was Star she would jump over a hedge if you looked into a field .I had several very exciting incidents with her .Approaching a gate had to done with extreme caution ,she once jumped out of a start box because I looked to one side when I saw MrGS coming .
It was useful though when I got lost once on the tracks phase at a three day she hopped over a rope fence to get me back to where I wanted to be .
She was a great horse ,she used to jump out of her paddock and come and lie with the dogs on the lawn when I was doing the garden .
I still miss her .