Leaving a job on bad terms?

[rpcdp]

So I’m currently working on a yard where things are just going sour. I’ve been here for 2 years now and everything was going mostly fine (boss can be extremely difficult) until Sept 2019 when the new girl arrived and my team split up. Since my last colleague left and this woman arrived she has made it her mission to get rid of me. Half the liveries and kids here dislike her or she has had issues with (she loves saying how she rubs everyone up the wrong way and how she ‘doesn’t care who she pisses off’ !) and the other half she has poisoned against me. None of the staff have ever liked her. The bosses kids normally come down to help me on a morning during lockdown and everything was perfect until they started going to shows with her and their mum as thing start up again - they now ignore me, talk about me behind my back and ask the other kids if they find me annoying because of things this woman is saying to them! Bear in mind only last week they were all joyous with me and I’ve just ordered birthday presents for them!!! She has always been difficult but has argued her way through lockdown with me. I am a fairly patient person and can normally let it just fly over my head, but she is pushing me to my limit and several things have ended in shouting fights. She’s lazy, arrogant, a complete lick arse to boss, never helps, has divided a once happy yard in two cliques and just seems to actively compete with me when all I want to do is get on with my job... I’ve spoken to her about it but she never learns. Every drama, fight, negativity on the yard ALWAYS traces back to her - she has even verbally attacked paying liveries and children and gets away with it! Boss is useless at this stuff and lately has been taking any minor issues out on me, I get attacked or blamed for the slightest thing. I ended up on phone to boss one time to report this colleague as she had started to make nasty unwarranted comments about the way I look after my own horse. To be honest I’ve been looking for another job since before Xmas but is hard in this climate. My last job ended on bad terms as bosses were bullying staff and neglecting horses and dogs and the yard went under. So I really am trying to just keep it together right now. I could end on good terms with boss, liveries and (majority of!) kids but who knows what this woman has been saying about me. I’m trying to keep her at arms length and get on with my job so she can’t say anything but it seems she can’t even be that courteous!
It’s just the injustice that kills me. Boss let another lazy staff member get away with murder as well while the rest of us suffered as a result, so there seems to be a pattern!
They’re away to a show this weekend and I’m due holidays soon so hopefully a bit of headspace. Just needed a rant more than anything. I’m just so tired and dealing with a lot of personal issues so don’t need this on top of everything. ?

 

[SashaBabe]

I feel your pain, but there is always one who makes life difficult for everyone else. I worked in an office where everyone got on reasonably well. Of course there will always be disagreements, but nothing major until a new office manager was taken on. She made it her mission to get rid of anyone she didn't like. She made life extremely difficult, timing our tea breaks and toilet breaks and allowed no talking except at tea break or lunchtime. She insisted the office door was left open so she could hear if we dared to speak to each other. She picked on people until they couldn't take it any more and eventually left. At first it was the junior members of staff and when they were gone, she started on the older ones. Eventually it came my turn, checking to see how much work I had done. I complained to one of the partners that in all my working life I had never had anyone stand at my shoulder and ask how much work I had done. I eventually left and found out later that as soon as I left, she started picking on her next victim. It's a horrible situation to be in. When one of the partners asked me why I was leaving, I told him in no uncertain terms what I, and other members of staff had to put up with, but it fell on deaf ears. I think they were actually afraid of her.

 

[stormox]

It is a shame to leave a job you love, if having a word with the YO gets you nowhere, just leave. Give notice, work it keeping your head down and go. No need to be on bad terms, theres plenty of lovely yards - why work at a place that makes you unhappy?

 

[Beamish]

Hi there,
I've never posted on here but have been a long term lurker! I really empathise with your situation, having been there myself. I know how demoralising and disheartening it can be. It is always really difficult dealing with irrational behaviour and from what you say a boss that is less then effective and seems easily led. However, there are a few things within your control that may help you with this situation.

The first is 'be whiter then white'. What I mean here is control your behaviour and ensure all your work is done to the best you are able to do it. Be an asset to your employer. If you do this, people can throw any mud they like but it is hard to make it stick. Especially when you feel frustrated ensure you maintain neutral language, but at the same time be assertive. So, for example, if the perpetrator is instigating an argument, picking fault etc, state the facts only of what has happened. Do not use emotive language or be drawn into an argument. If she becomes abusive or offensive in any way say something like ' I will not be spoken to like that, therefore I am ending this conversation' and WALK AWAY.

The second is 'note everything down'. From what you describe this is a clear case of bullying therefore it is important to keep notes of all instances (day / time / who was involved / what was said / any witnesses) keep it brief and factual. This will not only help you if / when you do raise a formal grievance with your employer, but it will also help you to rationalise the situation. In stressful times things easily get muddled up in your brain (well they do in mine anyway!) and this will help you keep sense of the situation. This can also be cathartic, so when these instances occur, as soon as you are able to, note it down and, as far as possible put it out of your head so it isn't causing you more stress.

You are then left with 3 options.
1) Raise a grievance about this behaviour with your employer. This should be in writing and noting down the key examples of behaviour (from the notes you have taken) . This can be a double edged sword and only you will know if it is likely to resolve the situation or make it worse. A good employer should instigate some sort of investigation or at the least mediation to resolve the situation. Often though, this is not the case and could make the situation worse.
2) Don't raise a grievance, stay as you are and hope things get better.
3) Find another job, but by following the advice above you should be able to leave with your head held high with a good reference and also your employer will notice your loss when you are gone.

I truly wish you luck with this and hope you can enjoy whatever job you do

 

[Keep Trying]

Hi,

Really sorry to hear that you are having such problems. Just bear in mind that these situations can arise in any workplace and leaving might only bring short-lived relief from this kind of pressure - there are a lot of bullies in all walks of life.

I have experienced your issues at a couple of work places and found that the absolute best result has come from letting my work do the talking. I worked to the best of my ability and when I did make mistakes, held my hands up and did what I had to to fix it. The end result was not only did I 'prove my worth' but highlighted how poor the work of the bullies was. Additionally, as Beamish has said, I made quick notes of any times/dates/content of evidence of bullying and used it against them when I had to which really caused them to back off.

As far as this person talking about you behind your back is concerned, ask yourself whether there is anything that you can actually do to stop this. Probably your answer will be "No", in which case don't waste energy on something that you haven't got control over. Channel your energy and focus on your own performance as it's the one thing you have got control over.

I, perhaps, haven't given you a definitive answer as to the best decision to make but what I have given should help you to consolidate your position. After all, why should this person drive you out of doing what you love when you could well be better at the job than they are.

 

[Otherwise]

You probably won't win against her so there's no point playing her game, she's obviously got far more experience of pushing people around and getting what she wants at any cost. It can be miserable working like this so I'd hand my notice in and move on, yes you get bullies in any work place but if the management won't back you up and support you it's really not worth working there. Try and keep your head down, don't engage with it and be meticulous as you work your notice period.

In one case I know of a groom who slagged off the head girl to anyone and everyone after she left. Head girl didn't engage with it, if people asked about it she always had something nice to say about her, she didn't get into the gossiping mud flinging that the other girl clearly wanted. Eventually people noticed some discrepancies in the tales that were being told and have stopped believing the other groom but it's been a rough couple of years for the head girl.

Horse people love to gossip, you have to be really careful who you vent to but it is possible to have a decent reputation even if someone works hard to destroy it. The biggest problem is you have to rise above it and make sure your work is above reproach which will then speak for you. It's unfair that the burden is on you to prove you're not like they say you are but if they get to someone first they'll generally be believed over you trying to defend yourself.

 

[Muddywellies]

Leave. Life's too short. You spend a large proportion of your life at work so it needs to be at least tolerable.

 

[sport horse]

Some very good suggestions as above. As an employer can I suggest that you do not leave until you have found another job. Unemployment is going to rise and I am now receiving a considerable number of requests from unemployed/freelance grooms looking for jobs.

 

[SusieT]

The other question is - how are you getting into shouting matches? Are you partially responsible? Have you now got two jobs you'v eleft on bad terms- any chance you are causing any of this?

 

[rpcdp]

The other question is - how are you getting into shouting matches? Are you partially responsible? Have you now got two jobs you'v eleft on bad terms- any chance you are causing any of this?

Thanks. The last job several employees actually went to court or higher authorities over the treatment they received and animal abuse they witnessed at the hands of the employers and the conditions lived in. Some people after me apparently only lasted one day before they packed their stuff and left.
Regarding arguments with my current colleague, as mentioned I rarely react to people like this and try to forget about it the next day, but she is almost constantly Verbally abusive and bitchy and all I’ve ever done is say it to her face and be up front if I’m upset by something she’s said, done or if I’ve had bitchy comments made by her repeated back to me. She always tries to turn it into a loud argument and I try to make sure I don’t say or do anything that she could use against me, just say my side of the story or be rational. I explained it as best I could in my original post but the amount of things she has done to me since she came racks up to months worth of bullying that yes, I have tried to report and deal with head on, and now it feels like I need to leave before it gets sour.

 

[Fred66]

As some others have said keep a diary.
Don’t react in a knee jerk way, plan your interactions and make sure you are calm before engaging with her.
If she is abusive suggest that she is obviously upset and maybe it would be better to discuss the situation when she has her emotions back in control.
If she has been bitchy behind your back then tackle her about it in front of witnesses, but do it in a non confrontational way ie “it was mentioned that you are unhappy about xyz, maybe we could try abc to sort it out”
Think up some stock responses for her worst attributes.
Similarly with others on the yard that might be being influenced by her attitude, call them out on it but more in the “I’m not angry just disappointed” way that always instigates guilt!
If you allow yourself to be dragged into a slanging match then she wins because that is her aim.

 

[Chappie]

Just wanted to say I feel very sorry for you OP, I've not been in that exact situation but have been bullied in workplaces before - when working as a team it's so difficult to dodge this type of person. Lot of great advice above though.

I know you will be feeling worn out by it all but try to reserve some strength to spend effort on your CV, looking for prospective places to work (you might be better making speculative applications rather than waiting for a job to be advertised) and working on your strengths. Try and keep upbeat and positive because then you will be operating at a "higher vibrational frequency" than the bullies, who operate at a low and negative frequency, pulling everyone down. Try and build strong positive relationships with similar positive thinking people around you. If the bully starts talking negative, change the subject to something positive. Sorry, hard to know without being there if this could work for you, but I found it helped me. I've outlasted a LOT of bullies at my workplaces by "keeping calm and carrying on". It is VERY difficult to do.

As your boss unfortunately seems ineffective and unlikely to change, it may be time to move on. I feel sorry for the horses in these types of environments!

 

[SEL]

I am sorry to read this. I was a livery on a yard where a staff member acted like this and the liveries voted with their feet (she bitched about us as well as staff). The YO still couldn't see this girl was the problem and it took months before her eyes were opened.

But bad reputations get around. All those liveries went to different yards and we've all been quite happy to explain to our current YOs why we wouldn't want her working there!

So like others have said - if you need to stay then let your work speak for itself. Good luck!

 

[Christmascinnamoncookie]

Log everything then take it to your boss. I think I’d be handing in your notice. It’s so unfair, but it sounds like an untenable situation. ?

We had a livery like this, thought she was in charge of the helpers, told them what to do then they’d get in trouble with the yo. She divided the yard in half. She was actually quite nice, just wanted to be in charge when she was just a livery. I’m glad she’s gone.

 

[jnb]

Only you will know, but would whipping your notebook out and noting what happened, be enough to make her realise you're keeping note of everything to report to your boss, be enough to stop her or make her think what she's doing?
If it will antagonise her, perhaps do it more discreetly.
Otherwise, do not engage with her, consider recording her rants (even advising her if necessary, that you are recording it for the purposes of a future unfair dismissal/bullying case)
It's easy to say but not easy to do, put your headphones in if she's going off at you (if safe to do so) and keep working, report everything to your boss and keep notes.
Sounds like this person is the one who needs to go! What do the liveries think of her, would they back you up to your boss?

 

[rpcdp]

Only you will know, but would whipping your notebook out and noting what happened, be enough to make her realise you're keeping note of everything to report to your boss, be enough to stop her or make her think what she's doing?
If it will antagonise her, perhaps do it more discreetly.
Otherwise, do not engage with her, consider recording her rants (even advising her if necessary, that you are recording it for the purposes of a future unfair dismissal/bullying case)
It's easy to say but not easy to do, put your headphones in if she's going off at you (if safe to do so) and keep working, report everything to your boss and keep notes.
Sounds like this person is the one who needs to go! What do the liveries think of her, would they back you up to your boss?

Majority of the liveries dislike her as she has been rude to them and thinks she can say what she likes. Boss has had issues with her before and several complaints made about her as well but seems not to care. The yard has kids helping as well and not many like her either. I did try being pleasant and I hate the thought of someone being ganged up on/actively disliked but she really brought it on herself. I just keep my distance now, just anything work wise that needs to be said or ‘morning’ etc. I can’t deal with the stress anymore.

 

[emilylou]

I'd just find a new job and leave. No job is worth being made to feel that miserable. But untill then just keep your head down and work well. Its possible to leave a bad job on good terms

 

[ihatework]

Always try and avoid leaving a job on bad terms, even if you have been wronged.

Get yourself something else lined up. Then hand in your notice. Plaster a smile over your face and walk out of there with your head held high.

In the meantime to not raise your voice or get into an argument with your colleague.

 

[indie1282]

There are a few ways that you can deal with this. Firstly yes you could write it down and show your boss but from what you have said I don't think they will care.

The other way is to be extra nice to her. This is a very effective treatment but you do have to keep calm when doing it! Can you give us an example of the things she says to you?

For example, if she complains about your mucking out not being good enough you can simply smile and say ' oh yes, I must have been miles away this morning but ill take more care next time' This basically pours water on her fire, she can't really kick off or argue back as you have agreed with her! Mind you it does take a lot of willpower to do this and is probably really galling BUT it will work.

But imho I would look for another job. There is no reason why you need to leave on bad terms at all. You simply say to your employer ' Thank you for everything, I have really loved working here but I feel its time to move on to a new challenge'

Ultimately people like her do get their comeuppance but there's no point waiting for that to happen and being miserable in the meantime.

 

[rpcdp]

There are a few ways that you can deal with this. Firstly yes you could write it down and show your boss but from what you have said I don't think they will care.

The other way is to be extra nice to her. This is a very effective treatment but you do have to keep calm when doing it! Can you give us an example of the things she says to you?

For example, if she complains about your mucking out not being good enough you can simply smile and say ' oh yes, I must have been miles away this morning but ill take more care next time' This basically pours water on her fire, she can't really kick off or argue back as you have agreed with her! Mind you it does take a lot of willpower to do this and is probably really galling BUT it will work.

But imho I would look for another job. There is no reason why you need to leave on bad terms at all. You simply say to your employer ' Thank you for everything, I have really loved working here but I feel its time to move on to a new challenge'

Ultimately people like her do get their comeuppance but there's no point waiting for that to happen and being miserable in the meantime.

Well last week she decided that I gave her an ‘evil face’ while I was stood at the stable waiting to say something to her (I was actually going to try a bit of banter!!!) and attacked me out of nowhere before J could even say anything. ‘WHAT??? WHAT DO YOU WANT??? SAY WHAT YOU’RE GOING TO SAY??? F*** IT! F*** OFF!!!’ Then ignored me for rest of evening and started an argument when I confronted her about her behaviour. She always tries to turn it around and act like I’m the one with the problem or I’m mental for thinking her behaviour is an issue. She even tried this when I asked her to stop making nasty comments about the way I look after my own pony! She had made several snotty comments suggesting that what I was doing was wrong/I was putting my pony’s welfare at risk/I was stupid and then refused to acknowledge that it was none of her business and she shouldn’t have said anything. She’s very judgemental and attacked a livery out of nowhere after eavesdropping on his conversation and made out to the boss that he was making nasty comments about the yard. So difficult!

 

[indie1282]

Well last week she decided that I gave her an ‘evil face’ while I was stood at the stable waiting to say something to her (I was actually going to try a bit of banter!!!) and attacked me out of nowhere before J could even say anything. ‘WHAT??? WHAT DO YOU WANT??? SAY WHAT YOU’RE GOING TO SAY??? F*** IT! F*** OFF!!!’ Then ignored me for rest of evening and started an argument when I confronted her about her behaviour. She always tries to turn it around and act like I’m the one with the problem or I’m mental for thinking her behaviour is an issue. She even tried this when I asked her to stop making nasty comments about the way I look after my own pony! She had made several snotty comments suggesting that what I was doing was wrong/I was putting my pony’s welfare at risk/I was stupid and then refused to acknowledge that it was none of her business and she shouldn’t have said anything. She’s very judgemental and attacked a livery out of nowhere after eavesdropping on his conversation and made out to the boss that he was making nasty comments about the yard. So difficult!

Do you live on site with her? See there was no point really bring that up in the evening with her because all that did it kick off in an argument with her, which is exactly what she wants. If she screamed at you for giving her an evil then you should just smile/laugh and say sorry that's my normal face.

If she says anything about how you look after your pony again just smile/laugh and say ' well I've kept him alive this long so we must be doing alright' and then WALK AWAY.

Don't get involved if she bitches about the liveries, its up to them to complain about her to your boss.

 

[rpcdp]

Do you live on site with her? See there was no point really bring that up in the evening with her because all that did it kick off in an argument with her, which is exactly what she wants. If she screamed at you for giving her an evil then you should just smile/laugh and say sorry that's my normal face.

If she says anything about how you look after your pony again just smile/laugh and say ' well I've kept him alive this long so we must be doing alright' and then WALK AWAY.

Don't get involved if she bitches about the liveries, its up to them to complain about her to your boss.

I didn’t get involved with any of her problems with liveries, I’m just reiterating what happened.
and she didn’t say up front that I gave her an evil face, she just attacked me out of nowhere. I then the next day tried to be professional as the boss asked me to pass a msg on and she was extremely rude to me, which is when I asked her if she needed to say something which is when I was told I had given her an ‘evil face’.
i do normally let it fly over but the bullying has been almost constant - as mentioned I am keeping my head down, keeping her at arms length and trying to get on with job and she is STILL doing her level best to turn people against me. So no, I haven’t reacted recently but this is why I’m considering leaving.

 

[Polos Mum]

Best off out of it, some people you just can't help / reason with. I would find somewhere else to work, then resign - calmly explain why to your boss if they ask, but don't feel unjustly treated if they don't.

In the interim I would just keep completely out of here way as much as possible and use all your strength to bite your tongue when she criticises / interferes.
"oh ok" is a fine response even when you feel like explaining why it's far from OK.

You never know what people are going through, especially in the current virus situation, it's made sane people anxious and rude so best to stay well out of it.

 

[Arzada]

Until you leave make a list of rules of engagement that you stick to eg 'when I pass on a message that is literally all that I will do and then I will walk away' That will eliminate any invites from you to her to comment on your behaviour, your face etc.

 

[Cowpony]

Sadly, I think you are going to have to leave this yard. She's playing politics and it sounds as if you are either too busy or not able to play back. I can sympathise because I can't do politics either and it's horrible when you come across somebody who is a master, and you can't do anything about it. She's ingratiating herself with the YO and her kids, going to shows with them etc, and trying to turn the liveries against you. Even if the liveries don't like her they are going to be influenced by her.

I think you have 2 options - go on a charm offensive with the YO and the liveries, or leave. The former is hard to do when you are behind in the race, and may come across as fake if you aren't used to doing that. The latter may not be what you want, but she's unlikely to leave and there can only be one winner. So I'd cut your losses, look for another job asap but make sure your work is as good as it can be while you are there, and have as little as possible to do with her. Don't tell her you are leaving until the last minute, if you can keep it quiet (although the YO may tell her when you hand in your notice), and stay on the best possible terms with the YO. She will be giving you a reference after all! This girl will slag you off after you've left, but you'll be able to build your reputation at the new place, and you'll be old news at the old yard after a week or two.

It's not fair and it's annoying, but do you want to spend your whole life working for a weak YO who won't stick up for a long-standing employee? There are better and worse places out there. Try to pick yourself a better one and think of the new opportunities and experience which will come with a new job, that will make you even better at your work than you are now. Good luck!

 

[indie1282]

I didn’t get involved with any of her problems with liveries, I’m just reiterating what happened.
and she didn’t say up front that I gave her an evil face, she just attacked me out of nowhere. I then the next day tried to be professional as the boss asked me to pass a msg on and she was extremely rude to me, which is when I asked her if she needed to say something which is when I was told I had given her an ‘evil face’.
i do normally let it fly over but the bullying has been almost constant - as mentioned I am keeping my head down, keeping her at arms length and trying to get on with job and she is STILL doing her level best to turn people against me. So no, I haven’t reacted recently but this is why I’m considering leaving.

Then in all honesty I would just leave. You cant engage with her in a row and the only way to talk to her would be politely and to ignore all the rants,bitcheness etc.. Just pass the messages on to her and if she kicks of say ' you will have to take this up with the boss' and just walk away.

But in answer to your original OP no, you don't need to leave on bad terms.

 

[Annagain]

I'd be looking for a new job too. In the meantime, kill her with kindness - especially if there are other people around. Offer her cups of tea, tell her you like her jacket / boots / top or that her hair looks nice etc. If nothing else it will give you great satisfaction knowing she probably hates you doing it. I had someone who was very nasty to me very publicly and every time I saw her - especially if there were others around who saw her being nasty to me - I wasn't just polite, I was extra lovely. Everybody knew what I was doing but she couldn't do a thing about it without looking like a total cow. It took all her power away. I loved it!

 

[ROMANY 1959]

I feel your frustration. 12 years ago, I had a manager job, with 2 staff I was in charge of. There were 3 departments we reported to the Big Boss. My husband got terminal Cancer, I was trying to look after him and work 4 day week 8 to 6 . Something had to give, so I accepted demotion, to PT one of the staff I was in charge of took my job, and started to make my life hell.. I took so much then went off on 16 weeks sick, Doctor was wonderful, I cried my heart out in his surgery, told him all she had done, and he just gave me a sick note, I cared for my husband till the end. Returned to work , keept my head down, she was a nasty bit of a boss. Then I was head hunted by another office in the Same town.. I left, and I heard later on in the year boss had sacked her for being a bully and misappropriation of stock..She stole it. Best thing I did was leave. I am still in my Head hunted job. Leave , when you can find something else, I would also wear a head cam, and record her attitude and ranting ..

 

[[139672]]

I have been in this situation, was moved out of the office and she’s now done the same thing to someone else who resigned a few weeks ago because of her behaviour. Gaslighting describes her. If you make notes you must record dates, times and also how it made you feel. I tried always being polite and professional but it was awful and made me feel unwell and I dreaded going to work.

 

[MiJodsR2BlinkinTite]

"Beamish"'s advice earlier on is excellent and even as an ex-trade union official I couldn't improve on it.

Don't add fuel to the fire is what I would counsel. Even if someone is right in your face trying to wind you up, then just walk away. And keep mouth shut, firmly shut.

No one's saying that is an easy option, but by doing so you are depriving that other person of exactly what they are desiring, which is a "scene". Don't give them the opportunity.

Welcome Beamish! Looking forward to more wisdom from yo in the future!