Lets justify Hunting for sport!:)

[_GG_]

Imo op's unrealistic & bizarre manner of promoting the anti stance has probably done more good for supporting hunting, to anyone previously on the fence, than a dozen pro's could have accomplished alone.

This...I very rarely can be bothered to get embroiled in things like this to be honest, but I wanted to post up some fictional information about rabbit holes and horse incidents to prove a point, publicly, that the OP was not interested in fact finding or correct research in order to find a solid base for her opinions.

Anyone else who is anti hunting reading the drivel that she is spewing will have a hard time taking what she says seriously.

In the post of mine that she quoted, she tells me I am inferior. That is all I need to know about how self centred, self important and arrogant she is. In my book, if you feel you can call someone else inferior, you must have a pretty bl00dy high opinion of yourself. It is ironic also. She spends all this time and effort defending the rights of animals yet thinks it is perfectly ok to be rude to fellow human beings.

Inferior is a state of mind. I haven't felt inferior since I left home at 16 to go to Hartpury college, so it bothers me not.

I for one think that, whilst it is giving her a platform she shouldn't really have, it is also showing in the most spectacular way just how scewed her opinions are so that others who may read in future, think twice before forming opinons based on heresay and google.

Plus...it has quite frankly, be largely amusing and incredibly informative.

 

[Vulpinator]

Vulpinator- I think all animals should have equal rights to their lives as long as they are not needed for another animals survival. On pg 35 and on post 342 you will find I have written a little about rights and responsibilities for you.


Christmas trees- I presume the incidents where horses have put their foot down a rabbit hole and sustained injury are noted down by the veterinarians which see to them and when overall data is needed they are reported.

AnaV. My initial impression of you was POLITICO and ive not been proven wrong maybe a little more water is required in your drink or even a a little more drink in your water UN educated un educated un educated should have been Mr Blairs thoughts of you. they certainly are mine.

 

[micki]

So far you have all said you will not continue with this thread yet you all keep coming back to it !!! Perhaps the OP has hit a few nerves after all and no one wants to admit it.

 

[_GG_]

The answers to your questions are as follows;
1-No
2-No
3-No
4-Yes
5-No
6-Yes
7-Yes
8-No, I have auction markets where animals (eg horses) go prior to the knacker man but never an abattoir.

You banging on about me being from another planet? From which content of writing I have posted have you deduced I believe we are anything but omnivores? You will find it is I think we being omnivores are to eat a balanced diet containg meat, carbohydrates ect to be healthy.
I am very much for people trying to conserve our planet. These small steps you talk of? Would you consider taking the life of an animal for no other reason than it being a pest a small step? How is it a small step for the earth?

It has been proven to me on here people hunt fox for simply because they regard them as pests. I do not think that killing off certain animal populations because it suits people is the way forward for cleaning up the mess the human race has caused to the earth. Why should other animals suffer?

This topic is obviously one to draw emotion yet not at any moment through out it did I myself allow it to anger me. Funny you mention it for I have noticed on the other hand those who have opposed me on here have allowed it to do so. As I mentioned to one, how can you let something you believe whole heartedly subdue you so, for you to come across inferior through the manner of your post.

That's an awful lot of no's and that is why any argument you make is not going to carry any weight. Change all those answers to yes...and if your opinion is still the same, then fair enough and nobody would have a problem with it....because it would be an educated opinion, based on direct knowledge.

I do understand where you are coming from, I really do. I just cannot understand your insistence that some things are so very bad, when in actual fact, you know very little about them.

 

[_GG_]

So far you have all said you will not continue with this thread yet you all keep coming back to it !!! Perhaps the OP has hit a few nerves after all and no one wants to admit it.

Not me. I am stuck indoors for the evening again and I go months sometimes without coming on here, so am getting my "fix"

 

[Moomin1]

On a slight tangent, I wonder how Heythrop hunt can justify this!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4TSvb34bHak

 

[_GG_]

On a slight tangent, I wonder how Heythrop hunt can justify this!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4TSvb34bHak

Oh dear! Any hunt master I know would put a stop to that pretty quickly. Not a good advert for the Hunt, but I am sure they get reet pi$$ed off being harrassed and filmed all day.

 

[bubbilygum]

Oh dear! Any hunt master I know would put a stop to that pretty quickly. Not a good advert for the Hunt, but I am sure they get reet pi$$ed off being harrassed and filmed all day.

A hunt can't really have control over foot followers, as GG says hunt masters would have intervened if they were aware this kind of exchange was going on. The hunt can't really be held accountable for this as this is just the "opinion" of one or two followers!

I'm sure that all the bile and hatred being spewed at the hunt followers by the 'monitors' just didn't happen to be caught on camera... How convenient

 

[Countryman]

To be fair he knew she was filming and was probably just trying to rile her. Not appropriate but people get pretty pissed off being followed by that foul mouthed lot every day for 3 years...

 

[Star_Chaser]

Not had chance to read it all yet but has OP given a suitable alternative to hunting with hounds yet?? One that does control population leaving the strongest to survive and the weakest dispatched??

 

[bubbilygum]

Not had chance to read it all yet but has OP given a suitable alternative to hunting with hounds yet?? One that does control population leaving the strongest to survive and the weakest dispatched??

The best argument seemed to be letting the weak ones either starve or get injured by the stronger foxes to die a slow and painful death.

EDIT: I think there was also a suggestion of reintroducing wolves and possibly bears?!

 

[Nancykitt]

Yes - apparently foxes self- regulate regardless of food supply and lack of predation. So they don't need us to control numbers because it just happens naturally.

 

[Moomin1]

To be fair he knew she was filming and was probably just trying to rile her. Not appropriate but people get pretty pissed off being followed by that foul mouthed lot every day for 3 years...

Oh that's ok then!

I suppose most people have excuses like that for vile behaviour though.

 

[Countryman]

Well he clearly didn't mean it and just wanted to shock her. Much less vile than the antis behaviour.

 

[Countryman]

To be clear are you referring to his use of racist language? The use of that term is surprisingly common among the elder generation which he belongs to. Go to any white working class council estate and you'll hear it. Less of the pretend horror please.

 

[Moomin1]

To be clear are you referring to his use of racist language? The use of that term is surprisingly common among the elder generation which he belongs to. Go to any white working class council estate and you'll hear it. Less of the pretend horror please.

It doesn't matter who or where it comes from, it's vile and out of order.

Not sure how you were brought up, but I certainly wasn't brought up to make excuses for racism and threatening behaviour. You seem to think it's acceptable and justifiable in certain situations.

 

[Countryman]

I haven't justified it. I am explaining to you why he was driven to do it and how you will hear lots of people his age use that term. That doesn't make it right.

 

[Moomin1]

I haven't justified it. I am explaining to you why he was driven to do it and how you will hear lots of people his age use that term. That doesn't make it right.[/QUOTE

Unless you know him personally then how on earth do you 'know' that he has been driven to it?

I would say that is an attempt to justify and excuse his behaviour.

 

[KEF]

Very interesting thread! Unfortunately some have closed minds. Not judging though as I can identify with many of the 'anti' posts; however I can also see the logic of the 'pro' hunters. I think the natural reaction for those without experience of hunting (myself included) is that it is awful and barbaric. But the points raised about fox control and likeness to wolves are very convincing - I would rather we not have to control the population, and not kill animals for fun, but if it is indeed true that the population must be controlled then I can see that hunting is the most natural, and in some ways most humane, way.

ETS: Not that those who hunt find it fun to kill, I understand the fun is all about the riding, which is why I don't have a problem with drag hunting; I think maybe it's that hunting in itself is seen as fun, so it's difficult to separate, that the fun part is one bit, and the actual kill a separate factor, and the two - fun and kill - aren't related, in order to have the kill you need the chase which is where the fun comes in. I hope I make sense!

I understand your concerns. They are the same as mine. I am prepared to accept that animal numbers need to be controlled (although I do think that things other than kiiling can assist - such as not leaving food waste is accessible places and more solid chicken copus for example) even if for economic reasons but what I find hard to accept is that the mounted field derive some kind of fun or enjoyment or satisfaction (or whatever it should be called) as a consequence (direct or not, intended or not) of something that causes stress and pain to an animal. So this includes the chase as well as the kill. The mounted field do not contribute towards the hunt itself. Their involvement is essentially financial. The satisfaction of those that are essential to the hunt should be dervied from a clean and pain/stress free pursuit/kill.

I know that there are far worse stresses and pains caused to animals (battery farming etc) and I certainly wouldn't seek to suggest that this kind of activity should continue but nor should it be used as an argument for pro hunting.

I have listened to the pro hunt arguments - some of which are compelling and I am certainly more open minded about the efficacy of hunting itself but I remain to be convinced about the other elements.

As for people being tolerant to the interference caused by others - I quite agree but what I do object to is the hunt causing danger to the public and obstructing highways with abandoned vehicles. I am not come accross some inconsiderate and reckless attitudes (other than perhaps on the road occassionally) elsewhere.

 

[JanetGeorge]

Unless you know him personally then how on earth do you 'know' that he has been driven to it?

I would say that is an attempt to justify and excuse his behaviour.

I wouldn't attempt to justify it - it was stupid! But having had experience of some of the antis who target the Heythrop, I'd say it's a JOKE for them to take offence. Their own behaviour and language makes the language and behaviour of the silly Heythrop foot follower pale into insignificance!

 

[bubbilygum]

I wouldn't attempt to justify it - it was stupid! But having had experience of some of the antis who target the Heythrop, I'd say it's a JOKE for them to take offence. Their own behaviour and language makes the language and behaviour of the silly Heythrop foot follower pale into insignificance!

As antis monitor hunts, do any pro-hunting foot followers monitor the antis? Probably wouldn't take much effort (as they are there anyway) and it might make Joe Public see how hunt sabs behave? Does this happen?

 

[Alec Swan]

As antis monitor hunts, do any pro-hunting foot followers monitor the antis? Probably wouldn't take much effort (as they are there anyway) and it might make Joe Public see how hunt sabs behave? Does this happen?

This has long been my argument.

Alec.

 

[Moomin1]

I wouldn't attempt to justify it - it was stupid! But having had experience of some of the antis who target the Heythrop, I'd say it's a JOKE for them to take offence. Their own behaviour and language makes the language and behaviour of the silly Heythrop foot follower pale into insignificance!

The point is being completely missed though.

It matters not whether the anti's behave the same way, as I said, it's vile whoever or wherever it comes from.

It is myself that took offence at this video, and yes, if I saw footage of anti's behaving the same way, then I would take offence at that too.

 

[Countryman]

BubillyGum and Alec, on the issue of monitoring the antis.I haven't had any experience of sabs so I'll talk about 'monitors' - no less foul mouthed.

Some hunts have tried this informally I.e if they kick off someone tries to get their phone out to film but it's very rare for there to be a real system of monitoring the monitors. An informal system doesn't work well at all, because nobody wants to give up their days hunting to follow a carload of antis around, to get their photo and number plate put on anti websites and databases or to remember to bring a camera each day. Personally, I must say I'd be very reluctant to get out my camera near the antis as it wluld be very easy for them to accidentally try and dash it against the ground. Such things have happened many times.

I know in one case the antis upon being filmed themselves got in their car, turned on their own camera and panned around filming the hunt followers filming her and loudly tutted to the camera saying "Look at this behaviour. Just look at this behaviour...". They don't like it when they're filmed occasionally-yet they do it for the whole hunting day!

Furthermore, one hunt I know of did organise a rota of car followers to tail the antis while they 'monitored' the hunt to remain at a safe distance and to film them if they kicked off. The antis then proceeded to loudly and vocally complain about how this was harassment, how being followed all day was illegal and they would call the police and how it was threatening and harassing to be tailed all day while they filmed the hunt. I do hope someone explained to them that was exactly what they did themselves...


In any case in some videos they show themselves up. I can think of videos I've seen recently on YouTube in which the antis tell footfollowers they're "bloody barbarians" ask "where's the bloody Huntsman" in front of scared children and ask a woman what gender she is, explaining its hard to tell. This is on their own videos which they are proud of so you can imagine what they're like off-camera.

 

[Moomin1]

BubillyGum and Alec, on the issue of monitoring the antis.I haven't had any experience of sabs so I'll talk about 'monitors' - no less foul mouthed.

Some hunts have tried this informally I.e if they kick off someone tries to get their phone out to film but it's very rare for there to be a real system of monitoring the monitors. An informal system doesn't work well at all, because nobody wants to give up their days hunting to follow a carload of antis around, to get their photo and number plate put on anti websites and databases or to remember to bring a camera each day. Personally, I must say I'd be very reluctant to get out my camera near the antis as it wluld be very easy for them to accidentally try and dash it against the ground. Such things have happened many times.

I know in one case the antis upon being filmed themselves got in their car, turned on their own camera and panned around filming the hunt followers filming her and loudly tutted to the camera saying "Look at this behaviour. Just look at this behaviour...". They don't like it when they're filmed occasionally-yet they do it for the whole hunting day!

Furthermore, one hunt I know of did organise a rota of car followers to tail the antis while they 'monitored' the hunt to remain at a safe distance and to film them if they kicked off. The antis then proceeded to loudly and vocally complain about how this was harassment, how being followed all day was illegal and they would call the police and how it was threatening and harassing to be tailed all day while they filmed the hunt. I do hope someone explained to them that was exactly what they did themselves...


In any case in some videos they show themselves up. I can think of videos I've seen recently on YouTube in which the antis tell footfollowers they're "bloody barbarians" ask "where's the bloody Huntsman" in front of scared children and ask a woman what gender she is, explaining its hard to tell. This is on their own videos which they are proud of so you can imagine what they're like off-camera.

I am not ashamed to say that I am anti hunt, but I cannot condone or even respect the people who behave in the way you describe. I don't believe behaviour like that should come from either hunt supporters or anti hunt. What I think would be ideal is that genuine hunt followers come to some agreement with some agency who is willing to employ monitors who do not in any way behave like this, and act professionally.

Of course, the not so genuine hunt supporters would kick up a fuss about this also, but surely this would weed out the ones who don't act legally quicker anyway.

 

[fburton]

Yes - apparently foxes self- regulate regardless of food supply and lack of predation. So they don't need us to control numbers because it just happens naturally.

That is my understanding, yes - total fox population recovers to more or less the same numbers in the face of fluctuations in mortality rate, and that's because of territoriality. So there is a valid argument to cull foxes locally where they are causing problems, but not that overall population needs to be controlled - hunting appears to have little effect on that. That makes sense when you consider that the numbers killed by hunting are much smaller than the numbers killed on the road - the dent hunting makes on numbers is relatively insignificant. I believe Janet George has made that point before.

 

[Littlelegs]

Watership down was on in the early hours of the morning, so I expect op shall be back with some 'facts' about myxamotosis (sp), humans treatment of the rabbit population & their effect upon rabbit habitat, & the private grief of rabbits when one of their fellow warren dwellers is killed.

 

[AnaV]

I underestimated you all for just when I thought you could not out do yourself anymore you go ahead and make yourself sound even more naive.

Firstly, the English language you are right is not my first, however, it has no regards to this matter. The fact it is not and it is most of yours is shameful to be honest. I respect the English language, however, I am not picky over other peoples mistakes within it (be it spelling or grammar) yet some of the english used on this forum is awful. I did not find it necessary to raise that issue because that is not why I came on this forum.
Anyway, the questions I answered have little to do with this topic, for you do not know who I am or the amount of experience I have had around animals.
Just to clarify there is a difference between having a sky high ego and an inquisitive mind for human psychology.

On to the question about lambs. They are with their ewes when newborn in the field. If sick or weak the farmer if one who is good with his animals will know and keep a good eye on him/her. It is only nature when one is eaten by a fox.

 

[JanetGeorge]

As antis monitor hunts, do any pro-hunting foot followers monitor the antis? Probably wouldn't take much effort (as they are there anyway) and it might make Joe Public see how hunt sabs behave? Does this happen?

When I was an Area PRO for the BFSS, I monitored some of the sab attacks on hunts in my area. It was pretty damn intimidating - on several occasions my car was surrounded by thugs wearing balaclavas - while one tried to get the petrol cap off with a box of matches in his hand!! (A favourite trick!)

And when I went to London to run the press office, some of my team were doing the same thing. One very brave lass took a sequence of stills of a balaclava'd sab, with a raised baseball bat in his hands, running towards her and getting closer and closer! Another was videoing, was surrounded by sabs - one of whom tried to pull the camera away from him (it was on a neck strap.) He tried to push the sab away, the sab fell dramatically to the ground and the PRO was arrested for 'assault' (fortunately the film survived and in light of the sab's behaviour, the charge against my staff member was dropped!)

Another girl filmed sabs leaping out of their vehicles and immediately rushing towards hunt supporters' vehicles, smashing in the windscreens, screaming abuse and threats (thousands of pounds worth of damage was done!) She managed to escape to her car and get away, copied the film to all the local news media - before the police 'appropriated' the film as 'evidence' - it appeared on all local and some national news programmes that night! She was - frankly - a heroine! It was damn dangerous as the sabs wouldn't have hesitated to bring one of their 'clubs' down upon her head! They were a particularly nasty and dangerous group! Of course, there were no charges - police couldn't identify the culprits because of the balaclavas!

 

[AnaV]

After nearly 500 posts you have failed yourselves. I did not want to say this but you 'for' hunting for sheer sport are pathetic with your petty excuses.