Lets justify Hunting for sport!:)

[Josie Joe]

Do you know, I would just like to say a huge thankyou to all the articulate and eloquent people who have posted in support of hunting on this thread. I can see how extremely frustrating it has been to some but it has given me more ideas to express myself better and the nuances of arguments from posters like JanetGeorge, Alec Swann, Combat Claire and plenty of others (sorry can't remember all the names) are a delight to read. I don't know what AnaV is up to but in a weird way he/she/them/it has enabled all you fine people to put your thoughts down in such a way I am greatly relieved about the future of hunting. The sense of community that we see round here, over and above the role of pest control is obviously spread in a similar way across the country - hurray! So thank you again.

 

[JanetGeorge]

Alec;

I have spoken to the Supporter Group Relations Officer, who informed me that the deer at Baronsdown wood are free to roam in and out of their 'sanctuaries.' Therefore he means they are not trapped. Whether this is as true as he makes out I have not a clue for I have not been down there to witness it yet. Thus, if I find I have been misinformed incorrect data I shall discontinue my support for them.

They CAN wander in and out - but they are encouraged to stay with feed provided - meaning there are too many animals at close quarters - seriously increasing the risks of passing TB - and worm infections! It was about 1995 that The Spectator exposed the LACS 'treatment' (illegal) of deer on their sanctuaries with sheep wormer blocks (because the animals CAN leave before they had consumed a full 5 day dose, chances are the treatment was ineffective and added to the problem of wormer resistance.)

The increase in the incidence of bovine TB in the area makes the practice of encouraging close congregations of deer even MORE damaging to the health of the wild deer!

 

[happyhunter123]

I have not been down there to witness it yet.

Don't expect to be able to. Baronsdown is very private and is kept well away from the eyes of the public.


How much long, I wonder, will it be before they sell it?

 

[AnaV]

Josie Joe;

I had held my tongue throughout the entire thread. However, I cannot retain from dealing with this utter codswallop. Whilst you have all been preaching of fine 'english' and although I have tried to avert the subject due to the topic being based upon hunting, now feel it is once again necessary to mention this. If one is to post a finale reply on behalf of other fellow murderers, one must at least ensure that it is well formulated literature. The touching paragraph you gave was nothing of the sort.

JanetGeorge;

It sounds as though the Baronsdown Wood deer are about as wild as the 'wild' ponies of the New Forest. It shows that they should perhaps change their current tactic as to how the wormer is administered.

 

[Springy]

Christ is this STILL rambling on

Can I just bring peoples attention to the fact that this is the...

HORSE AND HOUND forum......

ie pro hunting???? ​

What responses did you expect

Honestly drop it now

>>>>> wanders off shaking head

 

[Nancykitt]

AnaV - you are the queen of double standards! If you farm an animal and kill it for meat then that's perfectly acceptable. If you kill a wild animal for any reason - including meat - then you are a murderer. Fantastic.

Josie Joe - thank you so much for your post. I reckon that if some of the general public could see the tripe that's been spouted on this thread by the likes of the OP, we'd have a lot more support for hunting! I have one friend who's already been converted!

 

[AnaV]

Springy;


We are all well and truly aware that this is a website where many will be pro hunting, and many on the fence, which is why I initially chose this particular website.


Nancykitt;

Oh dearest when will you learn to read? Tis necessary consumption that is the fine reason as to why farmed animals may be killed. For when you hunt wild, animals it is merely for sport, not necessary consumption. Do read up on my footnotes I left for you particuarly. Queen of double standards I may be to you, yet that is in the eyes of you and those around you who too share your opinion. I have already stated the the mere truth, which appears to be what you cower from. I for one have also shared this invigorating yet petty thread with fellow acquaintances who have always been on the fence in terms of hunting, and your replies have made them ripple with laughter.

 

[Molasses]

Do you know, I would just like to say a huge thankyou to all the articulate and eloquent people who have posted in support of hunting on this thread. I can see how extremely frustrating it has been to some but it has given me more ideas to express myself better and the nuances of arguments from posters like JanetGeorge, Alec Swann, Combat Claire and plenty of others (sorry can't remember all the names) are a delight to read. I don't know what AnaV is up to but in a weird way he/she/them/it has enabled all you fine people to put your thoughts down in such a way I am greatly relieved about the future of hunting. The sense of community that we see round here, over and above the role of pest control is obviously spread in a similar way across the country - hurray! So thank you again.

Bravo! Big Community Hugs!
Except for AnaV. No hug for AnaV

 

[Littlelegs]

I'm sorry op, but I have come to the conclusion you are a few sandwiches short of a picnic, & incapable of reasoned debate. I have an image of you as one of the loons I regularly saw in Tescos pre ban, wearing 'ban the hunt' propaganda, whilst buying battery farmed eggs & factory farmed meat. As such you really aren't worth engaging with further. Completely & utterly bonkers.

 

[Nancykitt]

Hahahahaha! I cower from the truth? - NOT!!! Well, we're all murderers, apparently. I can live with that.

Oh, but I do love a bit of venison. So am I allowed to eat it, if it's from a wild deer that has been shot? Or, if I want to eat venison, do I have to buy it from someone who farms it?
If I eat the former, I'm a murderer, right? But if I eat the latter I can be part of your circle of approval? I'm really struggling with this concept, probably due to my 'narrow mind.'
Sorry, but I've eaten venison from wild deer and at least I knew what it was, where it came from and how it died. I'd much rather eat that than the dubious stuff that's been knocking about recently, most of which is of uncertain origin to say the least. How do you know - absolutely 100% for sure - that the animals you're eating didn't suffer at some stage? Be honest, you can't know for sure.

AnaV, it doesn't surprise me that your friends - imaginary as well as real - are amused by our writing. But you're obviously mistaking me for someone who gives two hoots.

I cannot speak for anyone else on this forum, but I was once very, very anti-hunting and even considered joining LACS. So as far as your 'truth' is concerned - I've been there, done that, listened, learnt, researched - and made up my own mind. It might be a 'narrow mind' to you, but the way I see it, I've been in your shoes and now I'm more than one step ahead.

 

[happyhunter123]

Now, I'm concerned that things may be getting a little personal here, so let's remember to keep it nice (but firm)! We need to calmly and politely try and educate AnaV, not offend them! AnaV, the same to you!

AnaV-the definition of 'narrow mindedness' is not 'someone who has a differing opinion to me'. If you want to see narrow mindedness, look no further than the hate-filled hunt sabs and LACS members. You should try and make up your own mind!

 

[Alec Swan]

Oh dearest when will you learn to read? Tis necessary consumption that is the fine reason as to why farmed animals may be killed. For when you hunt wild, animals it is merely for sport, not necessary consumption. .......

Ah, I see, we seem to be making progress (some hope of that ). So let me get this right; that an animal spends its life in a cage, for we humans to eat, is OK with you, but should an animal enjoy a life of freedom, and in the cases of Hares and Deer, should it run the risk of losing its life, in the name of sport and to be consumed by man, that's wrong, is it?

anav, your level of intellect and your level of reasoning are beyond the reasoning of the common man. I am such a man, common, and will now leave you to your irrational and amusing vagaries!!

Alec.

 

[AnaV]

Littlelegs;

Do stop fantasizing about my image, when your imagination (which has proven miraculous and non stereotypical) can be used elsewhere.

Nancykitt;

Why not be less selfish and be grateful for what you already have farmed and ready to eat? Choosing to eat venison is unecessary killing. Speak for yourself, you clearly do not give two hoots for keep returning and posting.

No one is for sure how livestock/cattle is raised and lives its last moments in the abbatoir unless undercover cameras are equipped at all times. I do believe England as a nation is working toward the better upbringing of our farmed food, but you would have to be the pessimist amongst the nation of realists. Instead of focusing energy on helping a better future for cows/sheep/pigs and so on you would rather eat venison, a minority, just for taste.

As for you having been one to stand up for animals, that's fantastic, where is 'gunna?' going to get you/people? Not far. I too have done my research, learnt and made up my mind. Having grown around those who hunt, I know of your ways, however, was never subdued into your way of thinking, and I too am one fond of galloping across fields on my horse. To me Nancykitt you and your fellows are simply, one step behind, whereby you are happy to end a life, not yours, but another beings. That to me is backward.

 

[Alec Swan]

....... To me Nancykitt you and your fellows are simply, one step behind, whereby you are happy to end a life, not yours, but another beings. That to me is backward.

Unless of course, you have it arrive in a sanitised package, and you want to eat it. That's OK is it?

Come along now ana dear, wake up.

Alec.

 

[maccachic]

Oh dear (scuse the pun) but really what if someone can't afford the pretty meat in shiny packages from the supermarket and instead hunts their own, then what? Is this allowed under your rules.

What about all the chemicals that farmed animals are exposed to?
Treatments to prolong the shelf life of meat etc.

Really think it is better for you?

 

[Nancykitt]

Ah, I see, we seem to be making progress (some hope of that ). So let me get this right; that an animal spends its life in a cage, for we humans to eat, is OK with you, but should an animal enjoy a life of freedom, and in the cases of Hares and Deer, should it run the risk of losing its life, in the name of sport and to be consumed by man, that's wrong, is it?

anav, your level of intellect and your level of reasoning are beyond the reasoning of the common man. I am such a man, common, and will now leave you to your irrational and amusing vagaries!!

Alec.

Very nicely put, Alec. This is what I'm struggling with. Presumably AnaV is OK with the 'unecessary' killing of bull calves, the intensive farming of pigs, etc etc - and as for lamb, very tasty, but some of the newborns are just going to have to put up with suffering an awful death in the jaws of the fox so that she and her friends can enjoy it?

So many of the posts referred to 'nature' (eg, it's in the fox's nature to hunt, this is nature, etc etc). If anyone believes that humans are omniverous, then it must be acknowledged that, in 'nature', humans are hunters and have been for many, many years.

 

[combat_claire]

I wonder if AnaV wrote this letter to the papers!

https://fbcdn-sphotos-c-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/426164_313284388775255_925273789_n.jpg

 

[EAST KENT]

Hey..could any of you tell me how they "breed hares for coursing" in Eire??Latest idiot claim ,but apart from just leaving them alone I cannot quite see how this is achieved,anyone??

 

[Alec Swan]

EAST KENT,

I'm with you, without question, but one of the problems of our world is that if we don't respond, if we don't defend our heritage, if we allow the clowns who wont have clay pigeons shot, because it's cruel, to influence those with even less understanding (if that's imaginable), then we will be seen to accept that the ridiculous claims made by those who have no interest in wildlife, but rather their own distorted view points, will have a degree of credibility.

We stand against those who will direct our valued and worthwhile wildlife, into the neatly apportioned but misdirected pigeon holes, that they would persuade our world, have a degree of morality.

I've had many lengthy, face to face discussions with those who disagree with me, and they always stumble at one important question and point, to whit; "How do you suppose that we have arrived at the current healthy and supported and vibrant state of our wildlife, were it not for the management systems of centuries"? I then ask them if they would have all that work change, but only because of their opinion. Generally silence follows.

Alec.

 

[EAST KENT]

Seriously..HOW do you "breed" hares?knowing their habits just cannot see how that is possible myself,so apart from leaving downland etc for them to get on with it..what else is/can be done to encourage numbers?
The same rather overweight source suggested catching up and "spaying" badgers..all the while stuffing a beef sandwich down her face.So So Funny.
Why the concept of conservation and control being one and the same is completely beyond their ken just defeats me.However,winding them up is another form of sport

 

[Alec Swan]

Seriously..HOW do you "breed" hares?.......

Actually, it's a relatively simple process, and what you do, is this; You create an environment which is conducive for them to reproduce. I'll agree that by creating such an environment, and by offering a sheltered and protected home-land, it could be considered to be artificial, but then with all Field Sports, creating a habitat which suits our potential quarry, ALSO fosters the same environment for all of our other and reliant wildlife.

Go to the land where the Forester is king, and I will show you near desolation. Go to the land where the Gamekeeper is king, and I'll show you wildlife, in abundance.

Strangely, and I can't explain why, all so many "Reserves", where there is no thought about sport, are limited and sanitised and somehow lacking.

Alec.

 

[VoR]

and live a content, life with no morals

small minded, backward people.

Not abuse hey? You really are a one!

 

[Serenity087]

Actually, it's a relatively simple process, and what you do, is this; You create an environment which is conducive for them to reproduce. I'll agree that by creating such an environment, and by offering a sheltered and protected home-land, it could be considered to be artificial, but then with all Field Sports, creating a habitat which suits our potential quarry, ALSO fosters the same environment for all of our other and reliant wildlife.

Go to the land where the Forester is king, and I will show you near desolation. Go to the land where the Gamekeeper is king, and I'll show you wildlife, in abundance.

Strangely, and I can't explain why, all so many "Reserves", where there is no thought about sport, are limited and sanitised and somehow lacking.

Alec.

I think the jist is that a sportsman understands the circle of life and the importance of death when he creates an environment, so he factors it in.
A naturist will try and avoid death, so they factor it out.
But without death, there can be no life.

My father helps run a small pheasant shoot. They have a deal with the owners that they are in charge of managing the gorse as it suits the shoot because they do a damn good job of it and they pay the owners for the privilage to do it!

So the owners end up getting paid for the pleasure of having one of the richest spots of wildlife around (and they have everything, I've seen woodcock, pheasant, redwing, tawny owls, sparrowhawks, deer, hare, rabbits, foxes...).

But it works out better because the owners couldn't have such a thriving reserve on their own if they paid someone to do it!

 

[squidsin]

Hello people. I am new to this forum, new to horse owning, my lovely mare is an ex-hunter and I've got friends who hunt so I've been thinking of giving it a go but I've always been opposed to the idea of fox-hunting - it's not natural for horses to do, either, they're prey animals themselves. I appreciate many of you will feel differently and that's fine - in the greater scheme of things, a few more or less foxes isn't a big deal - but I just wondered, isn't the fun of riding and jumping about with mates the point of hunting, rather than the kill? Am I the only person who thinks drag-hunting sounds a lot more awesome than fox-hunting? Also, if I do go drag-hunting, should I keep my anti-fox hunting views to myself?

 

[combat_claire]

Hello people. I am new to this forum, new to horse owning, my lovely mare is an ex-hunter and I've got friends who hunt so I've been thinking of giving it a go but I've always been opposed to the idea of fox-hunting - it's not natural for horses to do, either, they're prey animals themselves. I appreciate many of you will feel differently and that's fine - in the greater scheme of things, a few more or less foxes isn't a big deal - but I just wondered, isn't the fun of riding and jumping about with mates the point of hunting, rather than the kill? Am I the only person who thinks drag-hunting sounds a lot more awesome than fox-hunting? Also, if I do go drag-hunting, should I keep my anti-fox hunting views to myself?

There are probably as many reasons to go hunting as people who go hunting. I'd agree that that the kill is a very small part of the reasons. Reasons that range from foot followers like myself & Countryman who enjoy watching hounds work to the elderly gentlemen who follow sedately on horseback and enjoy the company through to the thrusters who like the challenge of crossing unknown country and the thrill of never knowing what is coming up next.

 

[happyhunter123]

I've been thinking of giving it a go but I've always been opposed to the idea of fox-hunting - it's not natural for horses to do, either, they're prey animals themselves

Hm, I'm not sure if you entirely understand what hunting is all about! The horses wouldn't hunt the foxes, and neither do you! The 'hunting' side of hunting, what the hounds do, is purely a spectator activity. The hounds are the ones that hunt, with assistance from hunt staff. All you do is gallop after them!

sn't the fun of riding and jumping about with mates the point of hunting, rather than the kill? Am I the only person who thinks drag-hunting sounds a lot more awesome than fox-hunting? Also, if I do go drag-hunting, should I keep my anti-fox hunting views to myself?

Drag-hunting and fox hunting would look exactly the same from a non-experienced person's point of view. The idea is the same-you either follow the scent of a rag or follow the scent of a fox. However, following the scent of a fox is much more exciting, much more unpredictable, and far more interesting in terms of hound work. You go, basically, in the hope that you'll get a good run. The kill is important only to the hounds and the farmers. And fox hunting, of course serves (or served) as far more useful to the countryside than drag hunting!
It is a common misconception that people hunt for the kill, and in my eyes that view makes no sense. Not if you have any experience of the activity.

By the way, I assume that you live in Eng/Wales/Scot, so hunting here will generally be trail (similar to drag) hunting. Foxes may also be killed during the day as part of legal fox control measures.

 

[squidsin]

Hm, I'm not sure if you entirely understand what hunting is all about! The horses wouldn't hunt the foxes, and neither do you! The 'hunting' side of hunting, what the hounds do, is purely a spectator activity. The hounds are the ones that hunt, with assistance from hunt staff. All you do is gallop after them!



Drag-hunting and fox hunting would look exactly the same from a non-experienced person's point of view. The idea is the same-you either follow the scent of a rag or follow the scent of a fox. However, following the scent of a fox is much more exciting, much more unpredictable, and far more interesting in terms of hound work. You go, basically, in the hope that you'll get a good run. The kill is important only to the hounds and the farmers. And fox hunting, of course serves (or served) as far more useful to the countryside than drag hunting!
It is a common misconception that people hunt for the kill, and in my eyes that view makes no sense. Not if you have any experience of the activity.

By the way, I assume that you live in Eng/Wales/Scot, so hunting here will generally be trail (similar to drag) hunting. Foxes may also be killed during the day as part of legal fox control measures.

I live in Bucks, I think it's drag hunting round here - and yes I do understand the concept of hunting, although I've never been hunting myself. I'm aware the horses themselves don't actually hunt, as they can't, nonetheless they're involved in a hunt and I'm just not convinced that it's a happy environment for them, going against all their natural instincts as it does, surrounded by predators. That sort of puts me off - particularly as my own horse, although an ex hunter, is terrified of dogs, which possibly indicates a bad experience with one at some point. BUT drag hunting sounds like amazing fun. I'm not criticising people who want to hunt - I've no problem with shooting or culling so long as it's a quick death, but personally, I think being hunted down isn't a pleasant way to go. That said, my own opinion of the hunting ban is that it was primarily a smokescreen for the government at the time, distracting from more important issues but making them look as if they were doing something 'leftie' (and I say that as a leftie myself!) I'm just trying to work out if it's something I want to try, really.

 

[happyhunter123]

I live in Bucks, I think it's drag hunting round here .

Well, you have the Berks & Bucks Draghounds as well as the Kimblewick, the Bicester with Whaddon Chase and the Oakley as mounted packs around you.

I'm aware the horses themselves don't actually hunt, as they can't, nonetheless they're involved in a hunt and I'm just not convinced that it's a happy environment for them

That's completely untrue! Many (not all maybe, but a great many) horses absolutely love hunting. They aren't 'involved in a hunt', they just follow. You must always consider being a member of the field as being a spectator of the actual hunting.

I'm not criticising people who want to hunt - I've no problem with shooting or culling so long as it's a quick death, but personally, I think being hunted down isn't a pleasant way to go

It's a violent, but very fast and therefore fairly painless way to go!

Why not give hunting a try? Chances are if you go with a foxhound pack it'll only be trail hunting anyway. Most packs are very welcoming to newcomers

 

[cptrayes]

However, following the scent of a fox is much more exciting

You speak for yourself!

I've had more excitement drag hunting than I ever did fox hunting.

 

[cptrayes]

It's a violent, but very fast and therefore fairly painless way to go!

Not if you count the chase, and especially not if you count putting in terriers to bring out one that's gone to earth after a long run. It can be a prolonged experience for the fox before it is killed, as the best celebrated runs in H&H magazine always were.