Lets justify Hunting for sport!:)

[Alec Swan]

.......

Alec, in which way bizarre? Yes I am part of the League Against Cruel Sports and Cinservatives Against Fox Hunting.

........

As a member of lacs, presumably you will be able to speak with authority about the debacle at Baronsdown Wood, which is laughingly referred to by those who are indeed, lax, as a Sanctuary.

I'd welcome your justification of entrapping, illegally, wild deer, leaving them to multiply to proportions which the land can not cope with, and then hiding behind the banner of "Welfare". The lacs are an embarrassment, as are those who support them. If you support them, then your interests in animal welfare are none existent and you should feel a deep and abiding sense of shame.

Alec.

 

[Nancykitt]

I started this thread to hear the latest petty pleas of those like yourself.

What a very strange reason for starting a thread!

As many have said, you must have realised - by about page 2 - that you were dealing with people that have views fundamentally different to yours. Why not just leave it at that?

And as has also been said, if I went on an anti-hunting forum and started a thread 'just to hear the petty pleas' of those fanatics then I doubt that I would be treated with any respect. But actually I just wouldn't bother. I've no wish to hear anyone's 'petty pleas'. I've got better things to do with my life.

 

[YorksG]

I am presuming that the OP of this thread is a strict Vegan, as the killing of any animal is classed as murder by her. If she is not a strict vegan, then her entire argument is spurious.

 

[Nancykitt]

I don't think that she is a strict vegan - apparently it's OK to kill an animal if you intend to eat it, but everything else is murder.

 

[Littlelegs]

According to op, meat eating is ok because humans need it for survival.

 

[YorksG]

According to op, meat eating is ok because humans need it for survival.

Oh dear, I missed that pearl of misinformation somewhere in the rest of the drivel.......
I know I should leave this alone, but what about killing rats? Mosquitos? Any other animal which carries dangerous bacteria etc?

 

[Littlelegs]

I imagine ops thoughts on killing rats etc will be based on whether rats inconvenience her, & how cute she finds them.

 

[VoR]

FFS is this thread STILL going on? Ok AnaV, you win, we are all a bunch of bloodthirsty toffs, who like nothing more than running around the countryside slaughtering 'innocent' little fluffy creatures for our own entertainment as we have so much money we don't need to work and have 'staff' to do everything for us and there is no benefit to the countryside to hunting anyway........... so says a member of the anti-hunt fraternity I had the displeasure of answering a question to some months ago on another forum.
For good measure, my new 'good friend' pointed out that, anyone who goes hunting is in fact a 'wife-beater' (presumably as many women hunt they are husband-beaters although this wasn't confirmed by the genius I was 'debating' with), however, at the same time men that hunt are all homosexual (which causes a bit of confusion!). Not only this but most child-molesters are also indeed, so it appears, and I have no reason to doubt the expert opinion of this apparent academic,hunting folk, so there we admit it all, the anti-hunt brigade clearly win the argument that hunting has no place in countryside management, how could anyone argue with such a rational approach as this? Furthermore, having utilised 'Godwins Law', my new buddy drove home the advantage of his well-thought-out argument by wishing that I should fall from my horse and die or be paralysed and before wishing this on me asking that, if I was 'man-enough', I should make myself known to him so that he could come round and 'kick the ***** out of me'!!
There is little doubt that some have strong feelings that hunting is 'cruel' (sic), there are undoubtedly some pro-hunters who do get pleasure from 'the kill', indeed there are probably wife and husband beaters, even pedophiles that hunt, JUST AS THERE WILL BE IN THE ANTI HUNT RANKS for we are all human and these are human failings unrelated to any beliefs!!! Let us NOT forget though that, whilst the majority of people that follow hunts are from a similar and probably at times, LESS 'fortunate' background than those that are against hunting, often the overriding motivation for antis (and this is based on the continual use of the word 'Toff' and the description of those that hunt as 'upper-class' by antis) is a class issue and nothing to do with the rights of the animals.
You clearly have your strong beliefs AnaV, we have ours, doubtless you had no intention of ever changing your stance with your OP, most pro-hunters will not be changing theirs, therefore, lets end this here and now, it is futile everyone!!!

 

[AnaV]

VOR: How odd you find there to be a need to go off on such a peculiar tangent. Yes, much can be said about the ways of humans, like you say, about the different people who participate in hunts. I can think of many things related to the foul actions of people such as paedophiles, however, would not find it necessary to share on this thread??
Once again another pro hunter who tries to divert the topic...

A class warrior I am not, so why bother wasting your time mentioning the meaning of the word 'toff?' You should have spoken of the definition of 'pleb' in that case.

 

[Alec Swan]

VOR: How odd you find there to be a need to go off on such a peculiar tangent.

.......

Once again another pro hunter who tries to divert the topic...

.......

Ah, AnaV, you're back. Now then, as you are a supporter of lacs ( and I expect that you've checked for an appropriate response ), could you answer my previous question which references your group's treatment of illegally trapped wild Red Deer, which you continue to abuse within the area known as Baronsdown Wood?

Whilst we're at it, could you explain how your previous directors have disowned your policies, and how you continue to justify such neglect and cruelty?

Further more, can you explain how in the light of such neglect, that you've managed to silence not only the rspca, but Trading Standards and DEFRA? Explain these points to your waiting readers, and we'll be all ears!

Before you justify your group's behaviour, I would explain to you that I've had a lifetime of interest in deer, specifically Reds, and the condition of those poor creatures, judging by their disgracefully low body weights, should be an embarrassment to those who would claim to be carers.

Alec.

 

[VoR]

VOR:

Once again another pro hunter who tries to divert the topic...

....You should have spoken of the definition of 'pleb' in that case.

Am I diverting the topic, is there a 'topic', you ask a question and then, whatever response you get you ignore it and carry on with your own agenda, ignoring and damning even a logical argument, that isn't a topic of discussion it is a way, much like my learned friend I referred to earlier, of attempting to annoy, enrage, provoke, call it what you will, people who don't have the same view as you without giving consideration to any argument, simply dismissing it as nonsense because it doesn't fit with your own views.

I have re-read my post and I can't see any definition of the word 'Toff', however: 'A member of the upper classes, especially one who is elegantly dressed', the second part might relate to those that hunt, the former, definitely NOT in most cases. Why would I want to speak of the definition of the word, 'Pleb'? One of the common people, in the end AnaV we are all just common people, we enter this great world with nothing, we go out with nothing and in but a short time too, your life maybe so lacking that you wish to waste it on futile 'discussion', if you think you've found a new 'quarry' to ensnare into the game you are playing, I'm sorry I am not the person for you, in a battle of wits it is unfair for me to fight with the unarmed, bless you.

 

[AnaV]

If you are in reference to something the league against cruel sports has done then I have not a view or will to justify them on the matter for I do not know about the Boronsdown wood one as you say. I only became a member of both of them a few weeks ago. I am not a fan of DEFRA due to an ordeal over passports with them. The RSPCA are in my eyes despite being one of the biggest animal welfare charities in the UK are not not fulfilling their potential. They are in other words useless. Many animals have persued suffering through their negligence. Big cases, they are more than happy to deal with, for they are publicised for all to see. However, be it a dog being left tied to a chain all year round, living in its faeces, neglected and suffering malnutrition it does not get a second look in. Would you care to tell me about this situation at boronsdown wood?

 

[JDee]

I apologise as this thread is so long I havent read all through it
Britain has no natural predator of the fox so they breed profusely and are extremely good at surviving whether it be scavenging in town bins or raiding someones hen house - without some form of control they rapidly become a nuisance, in fact I would say they have already passed that mark - who would want to see packs of feral stray dogs roaming around the place? The fox is really no different.
Hunting with hounds at least ensures that the animals is dead and that the fitter healthier foxes do stand a better chance of survival than an old, sick or injured one would so the remaining population does tend to stay healthier
I prefer to see that than having them shot but not killed and left to die somewhere days or weeks later suffering, poisoned or trapped.

 

[AnaV]

VOR: Reading through I found you were 'going off on one' in a weird direction. Had it have had anything to do with hunting and killing animals I would understand but I am sorry sweetheart it did not. You began bantering on and on about those who hunt and how they are commonly misconceived for evil people. Correctly said, they are often thought of very evil people, I know personally, you and I have a different way of thinking. Why you felt you had to keep repeating peoples view on those for hunting, in this particular thread I do not know. If you have nothing worthy to post please don't take up your time talking irrelevance.

 

[Molasses]

Why you felt you had to keep repeating peoples view on those for hunting, in this particular thread I do not know. If you have nothing worthy to post please don't take up your time talking irrelevance.

It's a forum AnaV anyone can post what they like
Killer isn't it
Whoops bad choice of words

Given your distaste for repetition why do you keep repeating views where's it all going? Calling people sweetheart in one breath and pathetic in the next is rather scary though

This thread is like a slow train wreck at Christmas, it just keeps on giving.

 

[Alec Swan]

AnaV,

if you google Baronsdown Wood, you will learn. When you've done your research, come back and justify the existence of your recently found friends.

Alec.

 

[VoR]

VOR: Reading through I found you were 'going off on one' in a weird direction. Had it have had anything to do with hunting and killing animals I would understand but I am sorry sweetheart it did not. You began bantering on and on about those who hunt and how they are commonly misconceived for evil people. Correctly said, they are often thought of very evil people, I know personally, you and I have a different way of thinking. Why you felt you had to keep repeating peoples view on those for hunting, in this particular thread I do not know. If you have nothing worthy to post please don't take up your time talking irrelevance.

AnaV - Some people have too little intellect to read anything and comprehend its meaning so I will spell it out for anyone in that position and this will be my last on the subject.
My point as anyone with the ability to understand will see, is that, this and any other discussion where any one or both sides are at the extremes of views on a subject, is futile. Those at the poles of an argument will never accept any validity in the views of those at the other and may proffer abuse and or ill thought out random accusations at some point.
Perhaps you could, very clearly, through reasoned thought and in a comprehensible manner, justify to, probably the majority of us on this particular forum, exactly why hunting is NOT a sport (by definition) and should remain 'banned' as pro-hunters here are quite clearly, 'banging our heads against a brick wall' in trying to answer your original question, which you posed having already decided the answer, which in itself is nugatory.

 

[Alec Swan]

VoR,

that was a most courteous response. To my shame I've been reduced to advising them that they're idiots. We'll see if your kinder approach is any more effective!

Alec.

 

[VoR]

VoR,

that was a most courteous response. To my shame I've been reduced to advising them that they're idiots. We'll see if your kinder approach is any more effective!

Alec.

Don't think I'll hold my breath on that one Alec, however, I was 'dragged-up' (to try at least) to be polite and attempt to understand and respect other peoples views or beliefs, sometimes that is made easy and one can have a decent two-way debate often ending with a better grasp of the other persons stance, other times.......well......not so!

Cheers

 

[AnaV]

Alec: Jusitfy my friends existence? I will not be justifying the actions of others. You are diverting me to google? I see, no I am quite capable of carrying out my own enquiries.


Molasses: Tis what you call sarcasm.

VOR: Ok I see, your view on discussion. 'Great' you felt on sharing that. This is a debate, where opinions do not agree and are shared.

 

[Alec Swan]

Alec: Jusitfy my friends existence? I will not be justifying the actions of others. You are diverting me to google? I see, no I am quite capable of carrying out my own enquiries.


........

Excellent, so can we assume from your research, that you have a view or an opinion about those WILD deer which have been trapped at Baronsdown Wood, and by those who you support?

I understand that you have only been a member of lacs for a few weeks, but I'd point out to you that if you lay down with dogs, then you catch fleas (that's an English term for, if you associate with those who have no care for wildlife, then you will be viewed as they are, worthless).

If you are to rely upon your support of lacs for any degree of credibility, you cannot then play the part of Judas and deny all knowledge of their actions.

I realise that advice isn't what you generally accept, but were I you, I'd check out the antics of lacs before you claim to be a supporter.

Alec.

 

[Nancykitt]

in trying to answer your original question, which you posed having already decided the answer

Beautifully put, VoR - anyone who asks a question having already decided the answer deserves everything they get by way of a response.

 

[combat_claire]

Alec: Jusitfy my friends existence? I will not be justifying the actions of others. You are diverting me to google? I see, no I am quite capable of carrying out my own enquiries.

To speed things up here are the links to reports regarding the situation at Baronsdown. I apologise if people find the pictures disturbing.

http://www.skyshot.co.uk/client/gap_bwm/bovine_page5.php

http://www.skyshot.co.uk/client/gap_bwm/league.php

And here is the video when their disgusting management practices came to light

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vbgDclFnxdI

Like Alec I would be most interested in your views on this matter.

 

[happyhunter123]

This is stuff from 10 years ago. However, I'm fairly local to Baronsdown and know some of the neighbouring farmers-the deer are apparently in just as bad a condition as they ever were.
I honestly don't know why they don't sell it-it has surely served its purpose by now for them. The League have sold most (if not all) of the other pieces of land that they owned in this area.

Still-cases like this show load and clear that the LACS do not understand wild animals or their management. These show the consequences.

 

[Alec Swan]

c_c,

thank you for your last post. I hadn't read the reports from The Patrick Foundation, and they made interesting reading. I've seen the video'd film previously.

As h-h123 says, these reports come from years back, but the staggering point is that the situation remains unchanged. Despite the protests of the BDS, and the Relevant groups that deal with deer, on a daily basis, nothing seems to have changed. The shear arrogance of the lacs, by ignoring those who speak with experience, and have a passion for their native wildlife, beggars belief.

I wonder where the rspca are now, with their abilities to prosecute. I've asked of those supporters on here, for a comment, but they seem strangely quiet. As there are those who are opposed to animal cruelty, who seem more than happy to operate for the greater good, and to operate outside the Law, I'm surprised that in the dark of night these wretched creatures haven't been offered their freedom.

In the defence of the rspca, I will say that they seem to be a rather naive bunch of people. I see the lacs as being sinister.

Alec.

 

[combat_claire]

This also makes an interesting read, particularly the appendices listing confirmed cases.

http://www.exmoor-nationalpark.gov....13/133600/the_health_of_the_wild_red_deer.pdf

I saw a map somewhere that showed the TB hotspot with cases centred around Baronsdown, but damned if I can find it now.

 

[JanetGeorge]

And here is the video when their disgusting management practices came to light

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vbgDclFnxdI

Like Alec I would be most interested in your views on this matter.

Actually, it was old news by then. The Spectator ran a very good article in about 1995 about deer health problems at Baronsdown - although back then it involved severe worm infestation and LACS (unlawfully) putting out sheep wormer blocks in an attempt to control the problem. It was a bit amusing because I had originally pitched the story at The Spectator but they thought it should be written by someone who wasn't 'pro'! The journalist who finally wrote it was 'anti' when he started - but after he caught LACS out in a number of outright LIES, he started thinking again!

 

[Luci07]

I am enjoying this thread. Now I can guarantee I will pretty much always agree with Alec and Janet. Have just added VoR to my list of likes!!

This "debate" is hugely reminiscent of conversations with my mother. She doesn't listen either!

 

[happyhunter123]

On that map, there are a whopping 76 cases centred around Baronsdown and just 11 other cases in the (very large) surrounding area. This is from 2008.

Here is what the report says about that:
Specifically, 76 of the TB infected deer have originated from within an area of woodland and farmland represented by a 4 km diameter circle centred on the Exe valley at Baronsdown and Barlynch Farms. Other veterinary records, and records of stalkers and deer managers, suggest that deer in very poor condition have been encountered in the area of the cluster since 1999

The League are such a disgrace of an 'animal welfare' organisation. I bet hundreds of deer have died slow and painful deaths in there!

 

[Alec Swan]

....... I bet hundreds of deer have died slow and painful deaths in there!

Ah, but you've overlooked the fact that they, and their kind, have died for the greater good!

Perhaps we could discuss with thelacs, just how they see, "The Greater Good", and perhaps they could justify such an avoidance of the facts as expressed by the rest of those who's genuine wish is the well being of our native and South Country Reds.

FFS.

Alec.