Letter to my Instructor

It says a lot that you can't actually discuss this with her and have to put it in writing. Find someone else with more empathy - may not be the best at teaching you how to ride but better at boosting your confidence and establishing a good relationship with you. I do sympathise, I know more than one who I would categorise as bullies
 
Gingerwitch said:
The problem is this - the horse is very sharp and very explosive and easily distracted - you need to be 100% relaxed when she goes off on one, and give her a job to do and concentrate on. I thought I was doing quite well - but when she gets explosive i get tense, I really try not to, but I do, or I am anticipating the explosion. So please what is the instructor going to show me that i do not already know - she explodes you have to ignore it, and carry on, you change direction, but not sharply, you sit back, you give with arms, but keep a contact, she eventually starts work again, until the next thing sets her off. All of this I understand - doing it is a damn site easier said than done. so please tell me how is an instructor getting on is going to help this situation - what is she going to teach the horse that I am already not aware of ?
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This is what I don't really understand, if you understand all of this what help is having lessons bringing to you at all anyway?
 
Gingerwitch said:
It is the way it makes Me feel, like i tried to explain in this earlier post it makes me feel that I am even more rubbish at riding than I already feel, it makes me feel stupid, inadequate, I do not need to pay to feel like that, i get that feeling for free. How will getting on help ? The last person to sit on her, booted her in the ribs, smacked her in the mouth and basically turned my little sweetheart in to a terrified "omg" horse that is scared stiff of being in a school, it took me a year after this disastrous instructor sit on to get her to even walk in a school, I have explained all this on many occasions. Okay so she gets on and rides her better than I do, to me it will just confirm that both her and I think I am a crap rider, and yes I am. how will getting on her help me ? do I just end up paying for an instructor to ride, as my confidence ebbs ever more away, and what happens if she gets on and it goes wrong, how do i trust someone not to hit her, jag her in the mouth and un do all the work I have already done ?
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I think I know where you're coming from here. It's not that you don't trust the instructor, it's that you've made an unspoken vow to yourself and the horse to never risk anyone else hurting her again, and logically the only way to fulfil that vow is to never let anyone else ride her. But at the same time, you're afraid of mucking things up yourself. So I think you need an instructor who will take all of that on board and work with you accordingly.
 
KittenInTheTree said:
I think I know where you're coming from here. It's not that you don't trust the instructor, it's that you've made an unspoken vow to yourself and the horse to never risk anyone else hurting her again, and logically the only way to fulfil that vow is to never let anyone else ride her. But at the same time, you're afraid of mucking things up yourself. So I think you need an instructor who will take all of that on board and work with you accordingly.
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I have a horse that I've made that vow to. But I have a great instructor who I completely trust, he hasn't ever got on one of mine but I wouldn't mind if he did... I help other people with their horses and sometimes the feedback you get from feeling a problem direct from the saddle is invaluable. I agree perhaps this isn't the right fit for you, but I wonder if you have actually discussed this with your instructor or whether you've just internalised how you feel?
 
possibly the instructor wants to get on to show you what the problem is. Perhaps they aready know what the problem is and it is not the horse but you. This is not meant unkindly, many riders are simply not capable of riding many horses. That is sadly a fact of life that must be faced. If they get on the horse will do one of 2 things. It will be spooky and difficult as usual. In which case the instructor may demonstrate a better way of dealing with the problem or say they don't know how on earth you cope with such a difficult horse, you are doing well. Alternatively and what I guess you fear most is the horse will be perfect and it will show that the problem has nothing to do with the horse. I doubt the instructor will teach the horse but, however much you don't want or like the lesson, she may teach you to think seriously about yourself, the future and this horse.

It is difficult to accept with a difficult horse that you are not the only one who can deal with it. I have a couple of totally neurotic, unrideable rescue horses. One needed dental treatment, sedating, the full works. Vet turned up I explained the horse's nervousness and the horse demonstrated this beautifully. Vet who I did trust told me he would twitch him to get into the vein. Before I could argue against the twitch it was on and sedation was in. I was a bit peeved that this experienced horse vet could handle him a lot better than I could for this procedure but he was truly an expert in getting needles into difficult horses. Sometimes you have to accept people who work with horses or instruct full time are going to be a lot better than you are. I doubt your instructor wants to humiliate you but simply to deomstrate the problem. Who knows if she gets on and the horse does nothing it may enhance your confidence that the horse is quite safe. I often let my OH who has no nerves get on my horses. I watch them wander along both half asleep with the horse doing nothing. I then realise that the horse who spooks when I ride him past that particular place is in fact a seaside donkey in different hands. I am the one who needs to change my attitude not be upset by OH who is doing a good job on him .
 
I don't often post on here but I can relate to what you're saying. I also have a spooky and slightly unpredictable horse and find it really hard to stay relaxed at times even though I know I must. It sounds like you're doing pretty well to me! My first instructor was extremely helpful and experienced but we got to a stage where I don't think they really understood what I was struggling with and I often ended the lesson feeling demoralised and incompetent. Although I would in fact like an expert to ride my horse now and then to help me think about how I might do things differently, I think that it's hard to find this constructive when you're feeling a bit fragile or self-critical and even harder it you don't completely trust them to ride the horse. Unless you feel able to discuss openly with your instructor about what exactly they want to achieve or your concerns about this, I would think about having a bit of a change of instructor - this has certainly worked for me. I've got one now who is on the same page as me and is also quite clear that riding aggressively or giving him a whack would most likely just escalate his anxiety.
 
If you don’t like the instructor just stop booking lessons with them, personally I find it a bit weird that you would write a letter explaining how much you don’t like them.

If horse is as tense as you say she is then she could probably benefit from some none schooling and hack to get her to relax. You seem almost afraid of horse when she gets tense so it’s most likely a vicious circle with you prematurely getting tense which upsets her etc. An instructor getting on could potentially break that cycle.

Humiliated is a strong word. Why would you feel humiliated when it’s your own horse? You know exactly how tricky you find her and have lessons so both of you can improve. Instructors don’t expect perfection, but they do want people to try, otherwise what’s the point?
 
Am going to buck the trend here and agree with you

I totally understand how you feel

I absolutely hate it when my instructor gets on board to show me how it's done !!

There's absolutely nothing worse that standing there like a lemon paying good money to watch how fabulously they ride!

I just cannot learn from watching, it has to be explained, discussed, tried out and learned by repetition and consolidation

It's a learning style thing for me

If the instructor suggests they get on my horse I ask them to show me another way instead ...

Don't be disheartened , we all learn different ways x
 
Fire sign said:
There's absolutely nothing worse that standing there like a lemon paying good money to watch how fabulously they ride!
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Then you are looking at the wrong thing :(

You can learn so much stuff from an instructor riding your horse. You can see from the ground how the horse is stepping under itself, what its concentration is like, where it looks stiff, how it is with the contact and bending. You can be interactive and ask them questions about exactly what they are doing, and why, and then watch the horses reaction and compare.

Surely with lessons you get more if you park your ego, open your mind and actually try and learn from someone who knows more than you? (not aimed at firesign!)
 
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Gingerwitch said:
The problem is this - the horse is very sharp and very explosive and easily distracted - you need to be 100% relaxed when she goes off on one, and give her a job to do and concentrate on. I thought I was doing quite well - but when she gets explosive i get tense, I really try not to, but I do, or I am anticipating the explosion. So please what is the instructor going to show me that i do not already know - she explodes you have to ignore it, and carry on, you change direction, but not sharply, you sit back, you give with arms, but keep a contact, she eventually starts work again, until the next thing sets her off. All of this I understand - doing it is a damn site easier said than done. so please tell me how is an instructor getting on is going to help this situation - what is she going to teach the horse that I am already not aware of ?
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I did used to teach confidence and with NLP, as well as many of the other thigs people have said would help. What I have learned though, is that it is better to train the horse not to be sharp, explosive and easily distracted in the first place. If your lessons are about firefighting the issue once it has already gone wrong, then I would indeed change the instructor.

It may be that a more experienced and confident rider could stay relaxed and explain to the horse, whilst this is all going on, how to relax and find the release, but you know yourself that you are not currently that rider.

I was called to help many people who had confidence issues with their sharp horses. Usually we started with ground work to teach the horse how to relax, how to be compliant without being reactive. One horse/rider it was months before they rode. The rider was happy as she had not dared to ride the horse before, and at least we had a plan to help her spot the psyche of the horse and to avoid problems. Others, we groomed and tacked up and that was enough for one lesson as progress had been made in the horse being asked to perform and then relax. Some lessons were spent teaching contact from the ground. Teaching the horse to "park" or to relax when asked to do something. Mounting is a big tell in the horse's frame of mind. I expect a horse to come to the block and place itself ready for mounting, and then relax and wait patiently for the rider to mount and faff. If the horse is not able to do this then we don't put more energy into the situation (by riding round) while the necessary focus and control is not there.

Then the horse learns the lessons again about yielding to the contact, holding a soft contact - but this time from the saddle. The rider would concentrate on minute changes in tempo or stride length, and stay relaxed and searching for the correct response. Once the horse is responsive, focused, yielding and knows how to find the release, then the rider is caught up in the wonder of it all, and is not nervous. They are no longer "anticipating the explosion" but are proactively riding forward and helping the horse find the release and stay relaxed.

I would look for a trainer to help with this from ground up, so you do not feel overwhelmed.
 
paddi22 said:
Surely with lessons you get more if you park your ego, open your mind and actually try and learn from someone who knows more than you? (not aimed at firesign!)
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I read an excellent article several years ago which was basically about how ego has no place in training horses. I think you've made a very good point :)
 
my trainer never asked to ride my horse and hardly ever rides pupils horses,and when i was having problems understanding how to sort out a problem, i asked if she would get on and when she was on her she realised that a different approach was needed, she also said your horse is more difficult than she looks,(which made me feel better),,,she stayed on her for about 15 mins , no yanking or booting, and when i got back on my horse was much better and my instructor then explained exactly what she had done to achieve that result. it was a big help for me and i never had to ask her to get on again as i knew the answers...incidentally i was watching my trainer being coached by a very well known trainer and she asked him to get on her horse as she was having problems so there is always someone better who can help you...you have to trust your trainer and if you dont try another....
 
Fire sign said:
Am going to buck the trend here and agree with you

I totally understand how you feel

I absolutely hate it when my instructor gets on board to show me how it's done !!

There's absolutely nothing worse that standing there like a lemon paying good money to watch how fabulously they ride!

I just cannot learn from watching, it has to be explained, discussed, tried out and learned by repetition and consolidation

It's a learning style thing for me

If the instructor suggests they get on my horse I ask them to show me another way instead ...

Don't be disheartened , we all learn different ways x
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There is something worse; it's standing there watching your student continue to muck up a perfectly good horse whilst willfully ignoring all the good solutions you are trying to impart. If you cannot learn from watching, perhaps you can learn from feeling what your instructor has just "explained" to your horse by riding it? It is almost always far easier to train the horse than teach the rider, particularly when you are trying to teach something that neither the horse nor the rider know how to do. This is why schoolmasters are such brilliant assets. All riding is training, and that can be either good training, or bad.

It's posts like these really help to explain why I am so glad I no longer teach (people).
 
It was interesting, because we ran a clinic with a very hard instructor last winter, and a few people got upset anda bit stroppy at him and at one stage the guy got frustrated and said to one of them 'im not here to tell you you are a good rider; im not here to be impressed by you, because i've taught the best riders in the world and I wont be impressed by you; but i HAVE won X number of nationas cups and X medals, and if you think you can't learn even one thing from me, then get off your horse because you aren't ready to learn anything yet about horses from me or anyone else'
 
paddi22 said:
It was interesting, because we ran a clinic with a very hard instructor last winter, and a few people got upset anda bit stroppy at him and at one stage the guy got frustrated and said to one of them 'im not here to tell you you are a good rider; im not here to be impressed by you, because i've taught the best riders in the world and I wont be impressed by you; but i HAVE won X number of nationas cups and X medals, and if you think you can't learn even one thing from me, then get off your horse because you aren't ready to learn anything yet about horses from me or anyone else'
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I would counter, you can be the best rider in the world and be unable to teach those skills to another...
 
harsh but true paddi22! :oops:
It's a hard one to accept sometimes, I really have an excellent relationship with my trainer but even now I still feel like a wally if I say we've been working on something at home and then I ride like a moron in my lesson, but that's the ideal time to have a bad ride really! There's NOOO way he's going to be impressed by what we can do, cos he trains international GP but I often get complimented on how hard we've worked or the improvements we've made and that is lovely.
 
Cortez, that's been my experience I don't always learn much by watching but I learn loads by getting on a horse for whom things have just been explained!
 
blitznbobs said:
I would counter, you can be the best rider in the world and be unable to teach those skills to another...
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indeed, but I can understand the point - if you do have some useful info to impart and all you get is iffs and butts then it's true that sometimes the pupil isn't actually open to learning.

I think you can also learn how you don't want to do something during a bad lesson, that kind of affirms your own opinions and personal truths about learning and training. but you have to be up for the experience in the first place.
 
milliepops said:
indeed, but I can understand the point - if you do have some useful info to impart and all you get is iffs and butts then it's true that sometimes the pupil isn't actually open to learning.

I think you can also learn how you don't want to do something during a bad lesson, that kind of affirms your own opinions and personal truths about learning and training. but you have to be up for the experience in the first place.
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I agree I love having lessons with all sorts of people I never miss an opportunity for a clinic etc at all levels , sometimes I take away tonnes, sometimes I take away 1 thing and sometimes the only thing I take away is the belief that I will never have another lesson with that instructor but my horse has been exercised and is now safely back home ... but all in my opinion all are time well spent
 
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milliepops said:
harsh but true paddi22! :oops:
It's a hard one to accept sometimes, I really have an excellent relationship with my trainer but even now I still feel like a wally if I say we've been working on something at home and then I ride like a moron in my lesson, but that's the ideal time to have a bad ride really! There's NOOO way he's going to be impressed by what we can do, cos he trains international GP but I often get complimented on how hard we've worked or the improvements we've made and that is lovely.
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I think he can be impressed by what you do, if it’s an achievement for you. Not necessarily in the grand scheme of things but it’s relative.

Sometimes I’m impressed when my students manage to string a correct Air traffic format together
 
Abi90 said:
I think he can be impressed by what you do, if it’s an achievement for you. Not necessarily in the grand scheme of things but it’s relative.
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Yep I agree. I think he meant tho, that sometimes people go to clinics or lessons to show off how good they are, or to get confirmation they are a good rider. And that you are better off just opening yourself up and making mistakes to learn
 
Abi90 said:
I think he can be impressed by what you do, if it’s an achievement for you. Not necessarily in the grand scheme of things but it’s relative.

Sometimes I’m impressed when my students manage to string a correct Air traffic format together
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I agree the best instructors will take pride and be impressed with your victories not just the fancy ones ... it’s what makes the team work and whatever anyone thinks equestrianism is a team sport.
 
paddi22 said:
Yep I agree. I think he meant tho, that sometimes people go to clinics or lessons to show off how good they are, or to get confirmation they are a good rider. And that you are better off just opening yourself up and making mistakes to learn
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Oh exactly. The students we have the biggest problems with are be ones that think they are amazing and defend any mistake they make rather than learning from it. They close themselves off to instruction as they are too busy trying to “defend their honour” as it were
 
Cortez said:
There is something worse; it's standing there watching your student continue to muck up a perfectly good horse whilst willfully ignoring all the good solutions you are trying to impart. If you cannot learn from watching, perhaps you can learn from feeling what your instructor has just "explained" to your horse by riding it? It is almost always far easier to train the horse than teach the rider, particularly when you are trying to teach something that neither the horse nor the rider know how to do. This is why schoolmasters are such brilliant assets. All riding is training, and that can be either good training, or bad.

It's posts like these really help to explain why I am so glad I no longer teach (people).
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When I bought my little welsh cob temperament was the single most important thing to me as I had had mine thoroughly screwed up.He was and is a sweetheart BUT his schooling was zilch.My lovely instructor reschooled him for me and apart from anything else showed me what could be achieved when someone genuinely knew what they were doing.She tops up his schooling for me very regularly and it makes him a nice ride for me.Lots of people think he is wonderful but just born that way! Very few people realize how beautifully he has been schooled.
 
paddi22 said:
It was interesting, because we ran a clinic with a very hard instructor last winter, and a few people got upset anda bit stroppy at him and at one stage the guy got frustrated and said to one of them 'im not here to tell you you are a good rider; im not here to be impressed by you, because i've taught the best riders in the world and I wont be impressed by you; but i HAVE won X number of nationas cups and X medals, and if you think you can't learn even one thing from me, then get off your horse because you aren't ready to learn anything yet about horses from me or anyone else'
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I have met instructors like that.Mostly I find that they are inadequate bullies.
 
I can understand the OP not wanting anyone else to ride the horse due to a bad history, and I think the instructor should accept that due to the past history of the horse. But, and its a big but, the OP seems to bring a huge amount of issues to the lesson, and a client who has endless list of excuses why they cant to anything that is suggested to them is pretty close to impossible to teach. To be able to learn you have to open to trying what is suggested to you, at least once, even if its to say it doesnt work, you still have to try.

If your instructor isnt a better rider than you then you shouldnt be paying them! They are there to help you, so let yourself be helped.
 
eahotson said:
I have met instructors like that.Mostly I find that they are inadequate bullies.
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I don't think he felt inadequate at all, I think he was just frustrated that people were 'defending their honour; like another poster said. Like he kept explaining to one man he would have to open his horses canter up more, so the horse would get a proper jumping stride and fit doubles comfortably and not chip them with an unnecessary extra stride like he currently was. he explained the horses confirmation and how the rider was stuffing up the canter so the horse too compressed and had no power behind and was knocking. the rider got highly offended and said he knew his horses canter better than anyone. And you could see the trainer just roll his eyes and he said 'well course designers won't design courses to suit your canter and you won't listen to me so i can't help you'. And then the rider came up to us later and complained the trainer was a bully and too negative.
 
I have, at times, felt something like the OP, in that I'd rather be riding my horse than watching someone else ride it (actually, I always feel like that, because I like riding!). But I have had the benefit of watching instructors ride mine at various times, and it was always a useful and interesting experience for me and the horse. Sometimes it's the confirmation that the horse is actually a tricky little monkey, and I'm not just being rubbish - or sometimes it's the compliment that actually this one is surprisingly rideable and nice, but invariably they've come back with a slightly better understanding of what we wanted from them, which has helped me to replicate it when I get back on board. If I had a trainer I didn't trust to get on the horse, I wouldn't continue to train with them. If the trainer couldn't cure the issue they were trying to fix (and that has happened with some of mine), I'd know that at least it wasn't "just me", and that we would need to find another way to skin that cat - or that we should consider an underlying issue.

It took me years to learn to leave my ego at the gate - and I don't always get it right now - but I couldn't agree more with the statement that ego has no place in training horses. Anxiety, fear, arrogance - all the baggage we bring in to the arena only holds us back and prevents us from training the horse with the fairness he deserves. Riding is as much an exercise in mind control as it is a sport, I think.
 
JFTD said:
Riding is as much an exercise in mind control as it is a sport, I think.
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couldn't agree more, and this bit is sometimes the hardest part to master! especially when you are trying really hard, and you want to succeed so much.
 
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