Letter to my Instructor

paddi22 said:
I don't think he felt inadequate at all, I think he was just frustrated that people were 'defending their honour; like another poster said. Like he kept explaining to one man he would have to open his horses canter up more, so the horse would get a proper jumping stride and fit doubles comfortably and not chip them with an unnecessary extra stride like he currently was. he explained the horses confirmation and how the rider was stuffing up the canter so the horse too compressed and had no power behind and was knocking. the rider got highly offended and said he knew his horses canter better than anyone. And you could see the trainer just roll his eyes and he said 'well course designers won't design courses to suit your canter and you won't listen to me so i can't help you'. And then the rider came up to us later and complained the trainer was a bully and too negative.
Click to expand...
 
I had an explosive horse, I was almost ready to give up on. I got someone else to ride him a few times, and talk me through how to ride him through his explosions. A year on and he is completely relaxed in just about any situation. Now I need to find someone to get on him and help with schooling, as frankly, I'm rubbish at it!
 
annagain said:
You never know it might make you feel better. I went to a lesson with an instructor I'm not that fond of but it was riding club so pretty cheap and gave me a chance to ride him in the week in the winter. My horse (as he was prone to doing in those days) was being incredibly strong and rude. Instructor insisted on getting on 'to sort him out', which, in front of everyone else, was pretty humiliating. Arguing would have been more humiliating though so I just let him. Twenty minutes of being carted round and round the school in canter the instructor handed him back sheepishly and just said "shoot it". Luckily I never had any intention of doing that, I found a better instructor and 13 years on we're still going strong (or not strong as the case may be!)
Click to expand...


PMSL - and I bet you were too, at the time!
 
blitznbobs said:
I would counter, you can be the best rider in the world and be unable to teach those skills to another...
Click to expand...
Very true. Sometimes the best teachers are the ones who have had to struggle to get to where they are rather than the ones with a natural talent that find everything easy.
 
Two of the best instructors I know will never offer to ride a horse in a lesson, as it is some time since they rode at all. They are both capable of watching the horse and rider in front of them and of explaining what they think would help that combination to achieve whatever the aim of that lesson/part of the lesson is. Both of them are also able to judge when a part of the lesson needs to end, before the horse or rider becomes "overcooked".
 
daffy44 said:
I can understand the OP not wanting anyone else to ride the horse due to a bad history, and I think the instructor should accept that due to the past history of the horse. But, and its a big but, the OP seems to bring a huge amount of issues to the lesson, and a client who has endless list of excuses why they cant to anything that is suggested to them is pretty close to impossible to teach. To be able to learn you have to open to trying what is suggested to you, at least once, even if its to say it doesnt work, you still have to try.

If your instructor isnt a better rider than you then you shouldnt be paying them! They are there to help you, so let yourself be helped.
Click to expand...

You are not paying an instructor to ride the horse, you are paying them to teach you to do so. What you need is someone who is good at seeing what is happening, working out why and coming up with a range of ways to change what is happening. It doesn't actually matter whether the RI could ride your horse better than you can or not. Who trains Charlotte DuJardin? (I know the answer) or any other Olympic gold medallist?
 
but when you are training a horse as well as training a rider to train a horse, sometimes the pragmatic approach is, on occasion, for the more experienced rider in the equation to nudge the horse along a notch. Different if it's a rider on a horse more established than them. I'm not saying this definitely applies in the OP's case but in the abstract, an inexperienced or green horse and rider combination (or a more experienced combination learning new things) can be bashing their heads against a wall for ages simply because they can't get over a training hump. It's no fun for anyone, and for me, that is when it is really helpful to get someone who has lots of experience into the saddle to help get through it.

There's a time for being proud about doing it all yourself, and a time for saying, you know what - we aren't getting anywhere and it's making everyone frustrated or confused.

So yes, I like to be taught by people who I think are better riders than me. I want to know that they have done the things I want to do themselves. There are some that I know wouldn't dream of getting on these days, that's fine, and I wouldn't use them if I was in that situation of needing some more direct help.

I think the CDJ reference is actually not that applicable here, she admits herself that there are still things she works hard with him to improve and in terms of her top competition success vs Carl's I think a lot of that has been through circumstances (as well as huge talent) because she has taken rides that he could have had for himself...?
 
Pearlsasinger said:
You are not paying an instructor to ride the horse, you are paying them to teach you to do so. What you need is someone who is good at seeing what is happening, working out why and coming up with a range of ways to change what is happening. It doesn't actually matter whether the RI could ride your horse better than you can or not. Who trains Charlotte DuJardin? (I know the answer) or any other Olympic gold medallist?
Click to expand...

I actually began by saying that I understood the OP not wanting the instructor to ride the horse, and that the instructor should accept that. I actually agree with you, I think the instructor should ride the clients horse very, very rarely, but that the instructor needs to know more than the client, thats what they are being paid for. But when a client has a million excuses its virtually impossible for an instructor to help the client if they wont try to take up what is being suggested to them.
 
milliepops said:
but when you are training a horse as well as training a rider to train a horse, sometimes the pragmatic approach is, on occasion, for the more experienced rider in the equation to nudge the horse along a notch. Different if it's a rider on a horse more established than them. I'm not saying this definitely applies in the OP's case but in the abstract, an inexperienced or green horse and rider combination (or a more experienced combination learning new things) can be bashing their heads against a wall for ages simply because they can't get over a training hump. It's no fun for anyone, and for me, that is when it is really helpful to get someone who has lots of experience into the saddle to help get through it.

There's a time for being proud about doing it all yourself, and a time for saying, you know what - we aren't getting anywhere and it's making everyone frustrated or confused.

So yes, I like to be taught by people who I think are better riders than me. I want to know that they have done the things I want to do themselves. There are some that I know wouldn't dream of getting on these days, that's fine, and I wouldn't use them if I was in that situation of needing some more direct help.

I think the CDJ reference is actually not that applicable here, she admits herself that there are still things she works hard with him to improve and in terms of her top competition success vs Carl's I think a lot of that has been through circumstances (as well as huge talent) because she has taken rides that he could have had for himself...?
Click to expand...

I always think it’s cos Carl likes training and making good from quirky (mental) horses and Charlotte takes on horses with the talent to win... both fantastic riders but I’d say Carl has the edge on training ability - if he liked straight forward horses then the competition would be closer... just my opinion from watching them both over the years
 
daffy44 said:
I actually began by saying that I understood the OP not wanting the instructor to ride the horse, and that the instructor should accept that. I actually agree with you, I think the instructor should ride the clients horse very, very rarely, but that the instructor needs to know more than the client, thats what they are being paid for. But when a client has a million excuses its virtually impossible for an instructor to help the client if they wont try to take up what is being suggested to them.
Click to expand...


Do we actually know that the rider is offering a million excuses? I didn't pick up on those, OP said that she doesn't want the RI ride the horse because a previous RI did so and upset the horse a LOT. She also said that she knows what the problem is, she finds it hard to relax. What she needs is an instructor who can teach her how to relax on the horse, not one who can relax on the horse her/himself
 
Pearlsasinger said:
Do we actually know that the rider is offering a million excuses? I didn't pick up on those, OP said that she doesn't want the RI ride the horse because a previous RI did so and upset the horse a LOT. She also said that she knows what the problem is, she finds it hard to relax. What she needs is an instructor who can teach her how to relax on the horse, not one who can relax on the horse her/himself
Click to expand...


Well, the OP has explained exactly how to handle the horse and then said "what is the instructor going to teach the horse that the OP is not already aware of?" Thats not the attitude of a person who is willing to try a new idea.
 
Pearlsasinger said:
What she needs is an instructor who can teach her how to relax on the horse, not one who can relax on the horse her/himself
Click to expand...

But the owner has been going around in circles by the looks of it. So maybe the instructor wants to find a different approach or can see a better way and just wants to prove it could work?

I ride a lot of tense explosive horses at times, and the approach of relaxing, (while it helps), doesn't solve the problem. What you need is a set of tools that diffuse and stave off the problem before it hits. I had one really tricky horse in and I got an instructor in for cause I was going around in circles. The instructor was able to sit up, ride for 20 mins, and then get down and tell me exactly how to fix the issue - and it wasn't to relax more, it was to notice that as soon as the horse looked to the outside or put its ears forward I was to flex slightly, hug my legs harder and half halt then do a shoulder in or leg yield to get its attention and then ride forward with the horse in a slightly deeper frame. Once I had this coping mechanism the horse no longer was a sdifficult to ride. But it took the instructor getting on and sounding out the horse to see what worked.
 
I would love for my instructor to ride my pony. Unfortunately he's too small for her. I have however had my friend ride him & she got a great tune out of him, mainly because she's not tense or nervous, like I can be

I get your point about a previous experience OP, but I really think that if you trust this person to ride your other horse, you might be cutting your own nose off to spite your face.

I do hope you get resolution.
 
Tiddlypom said:
I'm also baffled by your reluctance to let your trainer hop on to your horse. Often they will find out much useful information on what makes it tick, which they can then use to help you ride the horse better yourself when you get back in the saddle.

I actively prefer trainers who ride client's horses over those who can't or won't.
Click to expand...
Will riding the horse stop her spooking when i am riding her ? no,
Will her riding the horse help the horse to relax when I am riding her no?
Some people learn by watching I don't, I need it explained to me, I need to read it, I need to understand it - or a combination of all 3, I do not learn by being shown.

KittenInTheTree said:
I think I know where you're coming from here. It's not that you don't trust the instructor, it's that you've made an unspoken vow to yourself and the horse to never risk anyone else hurting her again, and logically the only way to fulfil that vow is to never let anyone else ride her. But at the same time, you're afraid of mucking things up yourself. So I think you need an instructor who will take all of that on board and work with you accordingly.
Click to expand...

Thank you KIT, I am glad you understand my issue :)
 
Gingerwitch said:
Will riding the horse stop her spooking when i am riding her ? no,
Will her riding the horse help the horse to relax when I am riding her no?
Click to expand...

Well possibly yes. If she can get a feel for what happens pre spook or how the situation evolves then she may be able to spot subtle warning signs that she can then point out to you, then give you tools to deal with it thus helping you relax. So I disagree with you there.

It’s not a case of learning by watching but allowing the instructor to find more ways of helping you.

To be honest you sound like you’ve closed your mind off completely to any form of instruction here so probably best to take a break from lessons then find another instructor. This one hasn’t been able to help you from the ground if your horse is still explosive, and as you won’t let her get on to see what is happening to try and help you further then I would just change.
 
daffy44 said:
Well, the OP has explained exactly how to handle the horse and then said "what is the instructor going to teach the horse that the OP is not already aware of?" Thats not the attitude of a person who is willing to try a new idea.
Click to expand...

Really, how do you know what I have or have not done, tried, still trying?

So please again, explain - I know what i need to do - I am working on it - if it were a quick fix I would not be firstly having lessons, or bothering to post to be vilified on here - I am not making a million excuses, I had a very bad experience I watched a young horse that was willing and a bit confused become a rearing, prancing idiot in a school all because I was pressuered into letting a "very experience riding instructor" beat the crap out of my horse, I paid for this, I watched it and the horse has been terrified of being in a school ever since - I hack her, and diffuse the situation - so do you really think that I am going to repeat the potential for this experiance again ? This has no bearing on my feelings for my instructor, I have learnt a lot, I have explained to her why I will not let her get on this horse - I just get even more tense every time she asks to ride her.

I do not have an ego - if i had an ego I would not be having lessons - i would have the horse strapped down or never ride it, or talk the talk but not actually do anything.

So maybe I should give up having lessons, take the pressure off
 
paddi22 said:
But the owner has been going around in circles by the looks of it. So maybe the instructor wants to find a different approach or can see a better way and just wants to prove it could work?

I ride a lot of tense explosive horses at times, and the approach of relaxing, (while it helps), doesn't solve the problem. What you need is a set of tools that diffuse and stave off the problem before it hits. I had one really tricky horse in and I got an instructor in for cause I was going around in circles. The instructor was able to sit up, ride for 20 mins, and then get down and tell me exactly how to fix the issue - and it wasn't to relax more, it was to notice that as soon as the horse looked to the outside or put its ears forward I was to flex slightly, hug my legs harder and half halt then do a shoulder in or leg yield to get its attention and then ride forward with the horse in a slightly deeper frame. Once I had this coping mechanism the horse no longer was a sdifficult to ride. But it took the instructor getting on and sounding out the horse to see what worked.
Click to expand...

This is probably the most constructive post on here - thank you for explaining
 
Lots of people have offered you lots of constructive advice and haven’t vilified you:

- change instructor if you’re not gelling to one who will respect your wishes about not getting on your horse
- why they as instructors would offer t get on a horse, not so you can learn by watching but so they can work out the problem a bit better and offer better help
- how you can help yourself with your confidence and how to relax
 
Abi90 said:
Lots of people have offered you lots of constructive advice and haven’t vilified you:

- change instructor if you’re not gelling to one who will respect your wishes about not getting on your horse
- why they as instructors would offer t get on a horse, not so you can learn by watching but so they can work out the problem a bit better and offer better help
- how you can help yourself with your confidence and how to relax
Click to expand...

Yes Abi90 - you are right - many of you have made constructive advice and help - so thank you to those
 
I might be completely off the mark here but it sounds like you have an overflowing ‘bucket’ of stress, anxiety and emotion at the moment and that by trying to hold it all back during your lesson you are making yourself feel worse. This sort of stuff has a huge effect on sympathetic nervous system, sends your body into fight or flight with raised heart rate etc and your horse will certainly be picking it up. You can’t help it, your body reacts automatically to the stress you feel.

If it was me, at the start of the next lesson, before I even get on my horse, I would have a fully frank conversation with the instructor. I’d be saying ‘can I have a chat with you? I warn you there is a good chance I might cry because I’m feeling super stressed at the moment!’ And then tell her exactly how you feel, all of it, let it out. Nothing insulting to her but how you feel like a useless rider who is ruining your horse and how you’re afraid that seeing her ride might make you feel even worse. Whatever it is that’s in your mind. I know she isn’t a counsellor and this isn’t therapy, but I think you will be amazed at how much relief you feel for voicing it aloud to her, and she will have so much more understanding of how to help you and your horse.

I had a month or so over the summer where I could barely contain my emotions (illness related) and eventually I just gave in and full on cried to about 4 different people about 4 different things completely out of the blue. It was embarrassing and ridiculous feeling but you know what, they all saw how much I was struggling and all went out of their way to help me improve each of the issues I was having. It was like a huge weight had been lifted off me and after that life got easier.

But I might be off the mark.
 
KittenInTheTree said:
I think I know where you're coming from here. It's not that you don't trust the instructor, it's that you've made an unspoken vow to yourself and the horse to never risk anyone else hurting her again, and logically the only way to fulfil that vow is to never let anyone else ride her. But at the same time, you're afraid of mucking things up yourself. So I think you need an instructor who will take all of that on board and work with you accordingly.
Click to expand...
I'm in that position with my mare that ties-up. It's hard to trust someone else on her when they perceive sluggishness as naughtiness rather than pain.

OP - I've had a few lessons with someone who made me feel cr** every time. She kept telling me how talented my horse was with xyz on board and used to spend 30 mins pointing out every single flaw in my riding. Speaking to xyz about how they were getting a tune out of the horse and I wasn't was a revelation. Firstly because they told me how hard they were having to work and secondly because they told me what they'd tried in terms of exercises and what had / hadn't been successful.

I changed instructors btw. I don't feel the need to spend time and money on someone who was doing a cracking job at destroying my confidence.
 
Gingerwitch said:
Will riding the horse stop her spooking when i am riding her ? no,
Will her riding the horse help the horse to relax when I am riding her no?
Some people learn by watching I don't, I need it explained to me, I need to read it, I need to understand it - or a combination of all 3, I do not learn by being shown.
Click to expand...

What are your training principles? BHS/Classical/Something else?

Is this particular instructor right for you and your horse. Have you seen your instructor ride and what do you think of their training methods? If you can't trust your instructor on your horse then you are not chiming with something they do or teaching you.

To go to your comments...
The instructor isn't getting on to stop the spooking. They are getting on to help the horse understand what is required of them - riding through a series of exercises to engage them/ sort out acceptance issues/ rhythm/ straightness etc. This is the job in hand, not sort the spooking, this is a welcome side effect. It is the conversation between the horse and rider that is so absorbing there is no time/inclination for "ooh look wassssat over there... yipee I bucking now"

Getting the rider to relaxed is a difficult one, most people I have taught have massive holes in foundation blocks of their riding/errors in their position, this is OK for everyday riding but shows up immediately you are tested by a horse or want to shoot up through the levels. So what I would expect you to get from the instructor riding is that they pre cue the horse for the next bit of theory you are going to learn. Even when you both hit on the sweet spots if might be so fleeting that you are unable to indicate to the horse "yes that was it" - the horse doesn't spot it either but if they are pre cued it is easier. Improvements in position will keep you busy enough.

I get the learning by watching thing completely but I do like to go to watch really good people ride.

When I wanted to sort a bit of my riding out I went and had lunge lessons on another horse, it was a rider problem that led to tension, not helped by the particular horse I was riding. I decided to deal with me first.

Here is the link to my old instructor - the principles bit http://lambleypaddocksdressage.com/andrew-day/
and a bit of reading https://dressagetoday.com/instructi...-create-a-dancing-partnership-with-your-horse
 
Last edited:
Archangel said:
What are your training principles? BHS/Classical/Something else?

Is this particular instructor right for you and your horse. Have you seen your instructor ride and what do you think of their training methods? If you can't trust your instructor on your horse then you are not chiming with something they do or teaching you.

To go to your comments...
The instructor isn't getting on to stop the spooking. They are getting on to help the horse understand what is required of them - riding through a series of exercises to engage them/ sort out acceptance issues/ rhythm/ straightness etc. This is the job in hand, not sort the spooking, this is a welcome side effect. It is the conversation between the horse and rider that is so absorbing there is no time/inclination for "ooh look wassssat over there... yipee I bucking now"

Getting the rider to relaxed is a difficult one, most people I have taught have massive holes in foundation blocks of their riding/errors in their position, this is OK for everyday riding but shows up immediately you are tested by a horse or want to shoot up through the levels. So what I would expect you to get from the instructor riding is that they pre cue the horse for the next bit of theory you are going to learn. Even when you both hit on the sweet spots if might be so fleeting that you are unable to indicate to the horse "yes that was it" - the horse doesn't spot it either but if they are pre cued it is easier. Improvements in position will keep you busy enough.

I get the learning by watching thing completely but I do like to go to watch

When I wanted to sort a bit of my riding out I went and had lunge lessons on another horse, it was a rider problem that led to tension, not helped by the particular horse I was riding. I decided to deal with me first.

Here is the link to my old instructor - the principles bit http://lambleypaddocksdressage.com/andrew-day/
and a bit of reading https://dressagetoday.com/instructi...-create-a-dancing-partnership-with-your-horse
Click to expand...
I know what you mean about position faults. If you you want progress in jumping (for example) but you don't sit up straight on approach to a fence if the horse stops you can go over its head and that can lead to loss of confidence.

Whereas if the position was sorted even before going above ground poles then you would be less likely to have falls when jumping. Guess how I know this 🙄
 
Fwiw op you sound more accomplished than a lot of riders. I would find an instructor that you gel with and also take the pressure off yourself by doing more hacking or if horse is spooky on hacks just something fun and less serious than schooling. Non competitive Trec mabey?
 
mule said:
Fwiw op you sound more accomplished than a lot of riders. I would find an instructor that you gel with and also take the pressure off yourself by doing more hacking or if horse is spooky on hacks just something fun and less serious than schooling. Non competitive Trec mabey?
Click to expand...
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top