Level 5 accredited diploma in equine podiatry

[paddy555]

I'd say that a lot of shod horses have taken years developing those long toe underrun heel feet and have them when the shoes are taken off and it takes more that a couple of trims before the foot gains enough strength in the caudal hoof to get back into a normal shape. That new frog, heel and tight white line has to grow in , it can't just be trimmed in no matter how much the toe is dumped.

yes of course it takes more than a couple of trims, I'm not sure that anyone has said it doesn't and of course the new foot has to grow in.
I am not sure where dumping the toe comes into it. My understanding of dumping the toe is putting the foot forward on the stand and trimming vertically downwards. I have never done that. Other than cosmetic I'm not sure what it would achieve in pulling the toe back and building the heel.

 

[Gloi]

Just saying that the underrun heels/long toes are a common reason for a horse having shoes removed and it takes a long time to correct by building up the caudal hoof that so it's no surprise a lot of feet like that are seen.

 

[Tiddlypom]

And you let them?

I gave the trimmer (a very nice person, btw) the benefit of the doubt for far too long. I clearly regret that now. I pulled the younger mare from his care first after vet intervention.

Re shoes causing long toe/low heel. That can indeed happen, but in this case the trimmer took on feet that were already in good balance from my then farrier. All the trimmer had to do was to continue with them. The trimmer activated the long toe/low heel that you see in the before pics.

The older mare had been out of shoes for 11 years at that point.

The new farrier did not need to cut excessively into the toe to shorten it. It had not been trimmed back enough at trim after trim by the trimmer so there was excess length to take back that the trimmer seemed unwilling and unable to do. The new farrier did not want to change the foot balance too drastically all at once, so it took a few months to get the foot balance back to optimal.

A quick Google search suggests that there are 2900 farriers in the UK. There are just 34 EPA full members, of which I used one, so each one stands out rather more as representatives of their qualification.

To reiterate. I am in full support of a fully accredited barefoot trimming qualification, as long as the syllabus is robust and the examinations strict enough to make sure that only knowledgable and capable trimmers can pass.

I would expect, as part of the final exams, for a trimmer to be presented with long toe/low heel feet like in the 'before' pics above and to be able to demonstrate that they could identify the issues and competently trim them and demonstrate how they would trim them going forward.

 

[Tiddlypom]

Just saying that the underrun heels/long toes are a common reason for a horse having shoes removed and it takes a long time to correct by building up the caudal hoof that so it's no surprise a lot of feet like that are seen.

Very true, but not in this case.

 

[ycbm]

I am not sure where dumping the toe comes into it. My understanding of dumping the toe is putting the foot forward on the stand and trimming vertically downwards. I have never done that. Other than cosmetic I'm not sure what it would achieve in pulling the toe back and building the heel.

Paddy can you describe the mechanics (rasp, nippers?) and location of the actions that you use for shortening the toe? I'm trying to understand what you believe is different about the actual end result of the trimming involved between "shortening" and "dumping".
.

 

[paddy555]

Re shoes causing long toe/low heel. That can indeed happen, but in this case the trimmer took on feet that were already in good balance from my then farrier. All the trimmer had to do was to continue with them. The trimmer activated the long toe/low heel that you see in the before pics.

.

I have found that some feet stay exactly where they are with little effort and some have to tendency to continually run forward. If you don't work on those at every trim to keep then back then I have found it is easy for them to start their journey forward. Possibly the trimmer didn't realise that.

 

[paddy555]

Paddy can you describe the mechanics (rasp, nippers?) and location of the actions that you use for shortening the toe? I'm trying to understand what you believe is different about the actual end result of the trimming involved between "shortening" and "dumping".
.

rasp, never nippers, always from underneath never from on top. I work both the toe and maybe/probably the heel and I would probably be trimming that foot (very lightly of course) a couple of times a week to keep it progressing.
Changes in the angles would be very veery gradual and no way would the horse be sore.
This was how I was taught to deal with this.
What I believe is different is that in dumping you are merely removing the first X number of millimetres so the foot looks more normal (if that makes sense) . Shortening is a very bad description IMO. Moving the foot back to where it belongs is a better description to me which of course takes a lot more time and effort to rebuild the foot.

 

[I'm Dun]

rasp, never nippers, always from underneath never from on top. I work both the toe and maybe/probably the heel and I would probably be trimming that foot (very lightly of course) a couple of times a week to keep it progressing.
Changes in the angles would be very veery gradual and no way would the horse be sore.
This was how I was taught to deal with this.
What I believe is different is that in dumping you are merely removing the first X number of millimetres so the foot looks more normal (if that makes sense) . Shortening is a very bad description IMO. Moving the foot back to where it belongs is a better description to me which of course takes a lot more time and effort to rebuild the foot.

So are you just using the rasp to bring the toe hoof wall down, at ground level and putting a roll on it? I'm trying to visualise it and not sure I've got it right!

 

[Tiddlypom]

I have found that some feet stay exactly where they are with little effort and some have to tendency to continually run forward. If you don't work on those at every trim to keep then back then I have found it is easy for them to start their journey forward. Possibly the trimmer didn't realise that.

I agree.

What I haven't yet mentioned on this thread, but have on previous threads, is that the trimmer did a grand job on my third mare, the IDx, who has 'textbook feet'. Her feet don't try and run forward.

The other two have feet that do try and run forward, and that has to be addressed at every trim.

 

[paddy555]

So are you just using the rasp to bring the toe hoof wall down, at ground level and putting a roll on it? I'm trying to visualise it and not sure I've got it right!

hmm, sort of but not really I am working on bringing the toe back and also, at the same time dealing with the heel to get that back. (and also dealing with the split that has probably happened in the central sulchus to try and get regrowth) It is not very easy to describe how to trim on the internet as it gets misinterpreted very easily, someone tries something which I have explained badly and a horse gets sore. More a case of learning by showing.