LGV Training. Made me cry.

flying_high

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I cannot fathom out why this company has not been named ???????

Is it because the account of what happened is not totally accurate ?

Just my thought on this as I cannot think of another reason UNLESS other members can ..........

Because there would be a risk of legal action from the company. I don't think I would name the company on internet.
 

Branna

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The OP has not decided on a course of action, absolutely no reason to name the company at this point. I would be ensuring I had my refund before I did that!

I am appalled by the behaviour of the instructor and the posts suggesting this sort of thing can be commonplace.
 

ROG

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Because there would be a risk of legal action from the company. I don't think I would name the company on internet.
There can be no legal action if a person using that company gives a personal opinion of their use of that company - that is why the internet has feedback sites etc

There can be legal action if the person said they are always like that or they personally defame an individual with falsehoods
 

puppystitch

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Still not acceptable. I train people to control Fast Jets over the UK (busiest airspace in the world) where if they make a mistake the consequences are again far greater than making a mistake in a lorry. It would be wholly unacceptable to smack any of the students to drive home the point! If anything, it would make things a lot worse.

Controlling aircraft is a very serious business and neither the military or civilian controllers get taught by being hit by their instructors! I imagine it happened 20 odd years ago but definitely not now, we’ve moved on, so should you.

THANK YOU for shutting down the "I did it so it must be ok" brigade. The post isn't about what anyone did 20 years ago or thinks might / might not be acceptable now. Absolutely counter-effective to bully someone whilst they are trying to learn. Surely it's a given that mistakes are going to be made, especially in the first lesson , and a competent instructor should be able to deal with them calmly.

Also: fast jets - way cool!
 

KautoStar1

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As others have said, what was acceptable 20 years ago, is no longer appropriate now, and those still living in the past need to drag themselves firmly into the present and understand the 'rules' by which we play now in 2018.

Of course, only the OP knows exactly what happened in this scenario but in light of the Roxanne Pallet / Ryan Thomas situation where something of no significance was blown into an almighty row and how the consequences for Thomas could have been extremely serious had it all not been captured on camera, I think its worth OP taking a step back and being sure of the facts. I'm not suggesting OP is making anything up, I'm just saying its worth reflecting before taking action that could ultimately effect someone's livelihood and personal status.

Just out of interest, do the cabs of these vehicles not have on board interior camera's recording these sessions. I would have thought, for anyone instructing, for their safety and peace of mind, that this would be standard practice. As we know, people do make all sorts of claims.
 

Keith_Beef

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Yes it's assault. He has no right to lay a finger on you, regardless of the circumstances - and certainly not when accompanied by aggressive shouting that intimidates you.

I doubt I'd actually go to the police but I'd certainly ask for my money back and use it if he refused.

Yelling and threatening, leading the victim to believe that violence is imminent, is assault.

Physically touching (including striking) the victim is battery.
 

Tiddlypom

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I don't thnk that the OP should 'name and shame' on here either, but I do think that the instructor should be reported and she should not have any more lessons with him. Money back, too.

I am gobsmacked at the posters who think that this is normal behaviour for trucking trainers, and do not seem to think that it is much of an issue. I'm 60, and if anyone at any stage had tried that malarkey on me, they'd have soon bitterly regretted it.
 

EventingMum

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I am afraid I have to agree with Bob... and I am not a misogynist..

Throughout my career I was trained by Police instructors and passed a Class 1 Police Pursuit course, a Class One HGV and a PCV course plus a whole variety of other specialist vehicle courses...It was common practice to get a ruler or a whack when making a mistake...it focussed the mind and made sure you didn’t do it again... it was never meant as an assault just as a memory jogger so you didn’t get it wrong again...
Some may suggest that today such behaviour is not appropriate...but I don’t agree this is an assault... tell the instructor that you don’t expect to be hit and move on and pass the course...!
Complaining and reporting to police isn’t going to help anyone...

The reason it was done is to get the learner to focus! Driving a LGV should never be taken lightly...you make a mistake in a car and you dent the car... you make a mistake in a truck and the consequences are far more serious!

I know this is going to start a deluge of abuse but driving a truck is serious business.

I'm sorry but I totally disagree - imagine your daughter's dressage coach hit her "to focus her mind" because a horse is a big, dangerous animal that could cause an accident - would you honestly be happy?

The OP was obviously aware of her mistake and possible consequences and the instructor's actions certainly didn't help the situation. She missed a gear on a vehicle she had limited experience with - not many people have driven one with a split gearbox prior to commencing training. As a riding coach I know there is now far more knowledge of how people learn and how to improve learning experiences - it sounds as though truck driving instruction is stuck in the dark ages in this respect.

I hope, whatever the OP has decided, today is a better day and she updates us when she can.
 

Mouse19

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Thank you to all who have replied.

To update. I called this morning to cancel my session and explain why. I spoke with the instructor who was very surprised i was upset and did admit that he is very hard with pupils. He wouldn’t say anything about the shouting and swearing and the wrist incident.

He doesnt want to give me my money back. He does have a female instructor (something I was unaware of) who is currently on maternity leave due to have a phased return to work in a month so has asked if I want to start the course again with her. He’s given me until tomorrow to decide.

I am wary of naming and shaming as is it not slander/liable? And as others have pointed out it is 1) my word against his 2) some people wouldn’t consider his actions as ‘wrong’ so would I be ruining someone’s livelihood for no real reason.

I have calmed down considerably since yesterday. I still am definite in my belief his reaction was over the top. And the support people have given me has reassured me that I’m not being a drama queen.

I’ve spent a long time saving for the course and the financial loss did worry me so I need to make sure I have the best chance of passing.
 

Annagain

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Well done and I'm glad you're feeling better today. I think in your position I'd take the course with the female trainer when it's available unless you're in a hurry. If you really don't want to have anything to do with this company, I understand that and I'd push to get your money back. As I said yesterday I wouldn't necessarily report him to the police (I'd want to put it behind me and forget about it) but it's a handy bargaining chip to throw in to make sure you get your money back.

Naming and shaming isn't libel if it's true (I'm not saying it isn't!) but I understand your reticence and you shouldn't feel pressured to do it if you don't want to.
 

SEL

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A long time ago i did some work for a training organisation who mainly did construction and transport - there were a few like this bloke amongst our trainers. They've usually been in the industry all their lives and genuinely don't think their approach is "outdated". *insert eye roll* Nightmare to deal with.

Can you wait until the other instructor is back?
 

View

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OP well done. If you can wait and try with his other instructor, that may well be the right course of action for you.

Like several other posters, I was trained over 20 years ago, with the ruler rapping my right wrist if I got the revs too high on a gear change, and the left wrist if the revs were too low. Nudge a kerb and you paid for the morning teas, if the apple came out of the washing up bowl of water on the back seat or you went over a kerb, you paid for the lunches. And as for the audacity of a girl to train for a manual licence on a big vehicle ... fortunately I was able to grit my teeth and get through that week. On the plus side, my examiner was lovely in comparison and even said it was a nice way to finish the week by passing a girl.

But such intimidation is now out of place in a training environment. Of course I am aware of the consequences of getting it wrong in a large vehicle (I deliver Driver CPC training two days a month, and was out driving a school bus this morning) - but the instructor's methods in this case don't sit well with me.
 

Spottyappy

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Did you pay for the course on a credit card per chance? If so, you can most likely claim back on that for non delivery of goods. Likewise with a debit card.
I’m hoping you maybe protected this way, but imagine it’s either been a cash or bank transfer payment.
Even so, I would not be happy to continue in the circumstances, and would go to the small claim court if he refuses a refund. Write to him, by recorded delivery giving him 10 working days for a refund, and advising him that if he doesn’t oblige, you will be going to court.
 

Farmer Chalk

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OP well done. If you can wait and try with his other instructor, that may well be the right course of action for you.

Like several other posters, I was trained over 20 years ago, with the ruler rapping my right wrist if I got the revs too high on a gear change, and the left wrist if the revs were too low. Nudge a kerb and you paid for the morning teas, if the apple came out of the washing up bowl of water on the back seat or you went over a kerb, you paid for the lunches. And as for the audacity of a girl to train for a manual licence on a big vehicle ... fortunately I was able to grit my teeth and get through that week. On the plus side, my examiner was lovely in comparison and even said it was a nice way to finish the week by passing a girl.

But such intimidation is now out of place in a training environment. Of course I am aware of the consequences of getting it wrong in a large vehicle (I deliver Driver CPC training two days a month, and was out driving a school bus this morning) - but the instructor's methods in this case don't sit well with me.


I totally agree with you. As some others seem to imply I have never suggested it was appropriate behaviour...I was highlighting the fact that this WAS common practice in the industry.... and certainly more recently than as suggested... Fortunately the world has moved on and the majority have moved with it! There will always be some old dinosaurs who live in the past...

The trouble with forums, some are very quick to be judge jury and executioner on only half of the facts and one side of the story! There are always two sides to every story and the truth is somewhere in between.
 

waggit

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Thank you to all who have replied.

To update. I called this morning to cancel my session and explain why. I spoke with the instructor who was very surprised i was upset and did admit that he is very hard with pupils. He wouldn’t say anything about the shouting and swearing and the wrist incident.

He doesnt want to give me my money back. He does have a female instructor (something I was unaware of) who is currently on maternity leave due to have a phased return to work in a month so has asked if I want to start the course again with her. He’s given me until tomorrow to decide.

I am wary of naming and shaming as is it not slander/liable? And as others have pointed out it is 1) my word against his 2) some people wouldn’t consider his actions as ‘wrong’ so would I be ruining someone’s livelihood for no real reason.

I have calmed down considerably since yesterday. I still am definite in my belief his reaction was over the top. And the support people have given me has reassured me that I’m not being a drama queen.

I’ve spent a long time saving for the course and the financial loss did worry me so I need to make sure I have the best chance of passing.

Well done you. It takes a fair amount of guts to be able to call and explain the situation to the person that created it. Being hard on pupils is one thing hitting them is another. Hopefully the other instructor will work out for you.
 

ROG

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The VOLUNTARY register of LGV instructors has no legal teeth whatsoever so reporting it to them will not serve any purpose

That register used to be under the DVSA but now is just run by other LGV trainers

So to whom should it be reported to ?
 

Xanthoria

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Some may suggest that today such behaviour is not appropriate...but I don’t agree this is an assault... tell the instructor that you don’t expect to be hit and move on and pass the course...!

Complaining and reporting to police isn’t going to help anyone...

Complaining and reporting assault or any kind of abuse of power is exactly what more people need to do. For too long women been told to brush it under the carpet, be compliant and not complain about poor treatment.

The reason it was done is to get the learner to focus! Driving a LGV should never be taken lightly...you make a mistake in a car and you dent the car... you make a mistake in a truck and the consequences are far more serious!

Assault pretty serious, as I'm sure the business owner would find if the police got involved and charges were filed. It can result in a business owner losing their livelihood, not to mention the student's pain and suffering.

If a teacher cannot get their student's attention without using physical force, they clearly need to learn some new teaching skills.
 

Farmer Chalk

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Firstly whilst I understand the victim here may have been a woman this is not a #metoo woman specific thing... it is every student and it was a historic method... I do not agree with it and I hope teaching methods have moved on..

I am also appalled by some of the abuse that some of the subsequent correspondents have mentioned...there are dinosaurs many of whom are misogynists but the UK has moved on now and personally I am happy that this is the case. All of the most important jobs in the UK are now filled by women and that is awesome and as far as equality is concerned we still have some way to go but I am pleased we are heading in the right direction...

My comments relating to assault relate to those to which standard to engage police. The majority on here were baying for blood and to get the instructor arrested as well as exposing his business and generally ruining his livelihood...

Whilst at first thoughts we may all think that I would ask people to take some time and actually review the evidence before damning him forever.

We all agree by the actual definition of assault that an offence may have taken place... however we only have the word of a victim of how serious that assault and battery may have been ... one persons whack is another persons tap.... and another persons whack is someone else’s bludgeoning...

We were all happy to send the chap to the gallows on one line expressed by the OP without any further investigation. It’s great being judge jury and executioner from the comfort of your own sofa reading one line....

That she received a whack...(and we are already in agreement that this is wrong) what does she mean by a whack and where did it hit her? Did it bruise her? Did it draw blood? Did it leave any mark? If it did then I am the first to suggest that she should go to the police and get him arrested...

But the victim didn’t highlight that... and therefore I surmise (perhaps wrongly) that the ‘whack’ or tap or whatever was’nt that forceful and was the historic teaching method equivalent to the old teacher throwing the piece of chalk at the pupil...

If that was the case then going to the police would achieve didly squat... they would record the victims statement on an incident report, note the injuries and if there were no visible marks refer her to her civil remedies and unless there were any other extenuating circumstances treat the event as a common assault. They would take no further action.. the record would sit on file and be no crimed.
All this would do to the OP is give her a false sense of what was going to happen and she would be sitting around waiting for the police to kick the mans door in...which would never happen...

None of the advice given was actually going to help the person moving forward..engaging the police would give her further anxiety and no help in the long run..it certainly wouldn’t help her get what she wants most.. her driving qualification..

I am glad the OP has now made the decision and everyone can move on..

I am also glad after reading some of the comments on here that the UK has a great justice system and that we got rid of the death penalty... There are always two sides to every story and before condemning people we should take time to reflect..
 

tristar

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`two sides to every story` what the heck does that mean, but there will always be people who think they can justify anything.

it takes real courage to confront a violent bully, disgusting.
 

meleeka

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Firstly whilst I understand the victim here may have been a woman this is not a #metoo woman specific thing... it is every student and it was a historic method... I do not agree with it and I hope teaching methods have moved on..

I am also appalled by some of the abuse that some of the subsequent correspondents have mentioned...there are dinosaurs many of whom are misogynists but the UK has moved on now and personally I am happy that this is the case. All of the most important jobs in the UK are now filled by women and that is awesome and as far as equality is concerned we still have some way to go but I am pleased we are heading in the right direction...

My comments relating to assault relate to those to which standard to engage police. The majority on here were baying for blood and to get the instructor arrested as well as exposing his business and generally ruining his livelihood...

Whilst at first thoughts we may all think that I would ask people to take some time and actually review the evidence before damning him forever.

We all agree by the actual definition of assault that an offence may have taken place... however we only have the word of a victim of how serious that assault and battery may have been ... one persons whack is another persons tap.... and another persons whack is someone else’s bludgeoning...

We were all happy to send the chap to the gallows on one line expressed by the OP without any further investigation. It’s great being judge jury and executioner from the comfort of your own sofa reading one line....

That she received a whack...(and we are already in agreement that this is wrong) what does she mean by a whack and where did it hit her? Did it bruise her? Did it draw blood? Did it leave any mark? If it did then I am the first to suggest that she should go to the police and get him arrested...

But the victim didn’t highlight that... and therefore I surmise (perhaps wrongly) that the ‘whack’ or tap or whatever was’nt that forceful and was the historic teaching method equivalent to the old teacher throwing the piece of chalk at the pupil...

If that was the case then going to the police would achieve didly squat... they would record the victims statement on an incident report, note the injuries and if there were no visible marks refer her to her civil remedies and unless there were any other extenuating circumstances treat the event as a common assault. They would take no further action.. the record would sit on file and be no crimed.
All this would do to the OP is give her a false sense of what was going to happen and she would be sitting around waiting for the police to kick the mans door in...which would never happen...

None of the advice given was actually going to help the person moving forward..engaging the police would give her further anxiety and no help in the long run..it certainly wouldn’t help her get what she wants most.. her driving qualification..

I am glad the OP has now made the decision and everyone can move on..

I am also glad after reading some of the comments on here that the UK has a great justice system and that we got rid of the death penalty... There are always two sides to every story and before condemning people we should take time to reflect..

Crime figures should be an accurate picture of the levels of crime and not less just because people are put off because nothing is done. I’m sure the instructor wouldn’t have been arrested. He may at best have been spoken to and made to realise that his behaviour was wrong. Just because he didn’t leave a mark it doesn’t make the OP less of a victim in this.
 

Pearlsasinger

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Well done, OP. I hope the lessons with a female instructor work out for you, if that is what you have chosen to do.

For any-one questioning whether this was an assault and whether the police should be involved - I am an Infants/Nursery teacher. If I hit a child which I come into contact with during the course of my employment, even if I don't 'leave a mark', I should and will lose my job (after due process), whether or not, charges are filed. What is the difference, in this case?


OP, slander/libel only happen if the person making the allegation is not telling the truth.
 
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