Linseed - cooked vs micronised, any difference?

Clava said:
Views vary http://www.understanding-horse-nutrition.com/flax-seed.html

Here it suggests that actually whole is digested.
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I've tried both and it's actually quite interesting, when fed whole, the next day the horses poops have been sifted though and spread across the whole yard, presumably by rodents or birds picking out the whole seeds. When I feed it ground up, his poops are ignored by our local wildlife. This seems quite a good indication that whole seeds go through undigested. Took me a while to work out what was going on, but I've now tested it several times and it's always the same result, whole seeds = giant mess!
 
That's interesting,I have often wondered why the birds scatter my horses poop all over the place whilst ignoring other horses poo! I have noticed recently that charnwoods linseed does contain some whole linseeds..
 
I find the mice go crazy picking through the poo when I feed the Agrobs musli, the sunflower seeds go through undigested. The linseed doesn't seem to bother them so much.

I some linseed delivered yesterday from my local feed merchants and mentioned to him that if he gets an offer for alternatives, I want to stick with Charnwood even if it's a couple of pounds extra.
 
MrsNorris said:
I've tried both and it's actually quite interesting, when fed whole, the next day the horses poops have been sifted though and spread across the whole yard, presumably by rodents or birds picking out the whole seeds. When I feed it ground up, his poops are ignored by our local wildlife. This seems quite a good indication that whole seeds go through undigested. Took me a while to work out what was going on, but I've now tested it several times and it's always the same result, whole seeds = giant mess!
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I think the article did say some seeds were undigested, but not all. By the way...it takes 72 hrs for food to pass through the gut according to the Allen and Page rep I talked to at a weighing, so next day is unlikely.
 
Clava said:
I think the article did say some seeds were undigested, but not all. By the way...it takes 72 hrs for food to pass through the gut according to the Allen and Page rep I talked to at a weighing, so next day is unlikely.
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According to this bit of research the mean retention rate of digesta can be anything from 18 to 60 hours depending on animal weight, type of food etc You need to download it and refer to table 1.

https://www.researchgate.net/profil...he-equine-gastrointestinal-tract-A-review.pdf

Not sure where your rep got their numbers, maybe just a ball-park average.
 
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MrsNorris said:
According to this bit of research the mean retention rate of digesta can be anything from 18 to 60 hours depending on animal weight, type of food etc You need to download it and refer to table 1.

https://www.researchgate.net/profil...he-equine-gastrointestinal-tract-A-review.pdf

Not sure where your rep got their numbers, maybe just a ball-park average.
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that's interesting, thanks for posting. I definitely find the odd whole oat in my sec Ds droppings the following day if she has oats for tea the night before, another thing the birds go mad for that makes poo picking more difficult! I don't feed them if she has a day or 2 off so I know how quickly they are passing through ;)
 
i heard about feeding whole raw linseed ground up, but never quite trusted it.

probably from years of cooking the stuff, and cleaning the saucepan after, not able to believe it could be that easy, need a bit more long term evidence please
 
tristar said:
I heard about feeding whole raw linseed ground up, but never quite trusted it.

probably from years of cooking the stuff, and cleaning the saucepan after, not able to believe it could be that easy, need a bit more long term evidence please
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I'm with you on this, Tristar.

I was taught, albeit 30 years ago, that raw linseed was poisonous. I have previously cooked linseed on the hob at home, and would do anything not to repeat that mess and stink, ta very much. I am currently feeding the drama diva Cushing's mare 500g of Charnwood's micronised linseed per day, and it is brilliant at dealing with her scabby scurfy skin, as well as putting condition on.

Of course it would be easier and cheaper to grind my own raw linseed at home, and then feed it to her, but I'd prefer not to poison her, thanks. I'm risk adverse by nature so will continue with the Charnwood's, which undoubtedly works, unless compelling and robust evidence appears to the contrary.
 
tiddlypom, i also use charnwood.

many years ago when i was very very young, my friend and i went on the bus to look at some ponies, half way there she nearly feinted when she remembered she had left linseed on the cooker and had not turned it off! i might add i had heart failure at the thought of all that gunge all over the kitchen as her mom was quite house proud, but we could do nothing about it! half way to somewhere so we resigned ourselves to our fate, on returning home it tuned out she had never turned the gas on in the first place! so that was some big relief.
 
Well I've been doing it for years with no ill effects, having researched it first of course, here's just a small selection of articles which may be of interest.

http://www.thehorse.com/articles/33616/5-facts-about-flax
http://www.understanding-horse-nutrition.com/flax-seed.html
http://forageplustalk.co.uk/feeding-horse-hoof-health-dr-kellon/

http://blog.smartpakequine.com/2008/09/is-flax-seed-safe-to-use-in-horses/
http://www.hoofbeats.com.au/articles/flaxseed.html

You need to trawl through some of them to get to the relevant bit. 🙂
 
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My feed store used to stock Charnwoods but now it is Marriages. i jist asked for micronised linseed and honestly didn't read the label properly. Had no idea it was different.

Will go back to ordering Charnwoods online....
 
i believe the important fact is that whole linseed contains a combination of chemicals that when combined make cyanide, however when ground and fed fresh the chemical interaction does not occur..

boiling linseed rapidly for ten minutes then simmering for say 40 minutes destroys the possibility of the cyanide reaction, and i might add in my opinion makes the best possible use of linseed as it appears most of the oils are released by boiling and in such a way you end up with a thick gungy slimey porridge that is supremely digestable.
 
tristar said:
i believe the important fact is that whole linseed contains a combination of chemicals that when combined make cyanide, however when ground and fed fresh the chemical interaction does not occur..

boiling linseed rapidly for ten minutes then simmering for say 40 minutes destroys the possibility of the cyanide reaction, and i might add in my opinion makes the best possible use of linseed as it appears most of the oils are released by boiling and in such a way you end up with a thick gungy slimey porridge that is supremely digestable.
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But it is not toxic so boiling only impairs it's nutritional value.
 
MrsNorris said:
I've tried both and it's actually quite interesting, when fed whole, the next day the horses poops have been sifted though and spread across the whole yard, presumably by rodents or birds picking out the whole seeds. When I feed it ground up, his poops are ignored by our local wildlife. This seems quite a good indication that whole seeds go through undigested. Took me a while to work out what was going on, but I've now tested it several times and it's always the same result, whole seeds = giant mess!
Click to expand...

I found the same when I fed oats - the birds went wild for horse's poo so clearly they weren't being digested. Birds don't bother with simple speedibeet and linseed these days!
 
i`m not saying it is toxic, but that is the way we were bought to think about being sure and safe.

i also think after using all form of linseed that the boiled form is superior,or in my case i find it has the most beneficial effect conditioning animals.

boiled it is a wonderful substance, warming and lining the digestive system, i would imagine it could be ex for ulcers, in fact any animal poorly or out of condition, and yes not scientific but you only have to look at it in the saucepan to see how boiling brings out all the oil and softens the seeds it is completely different to micro and ground.

boiled food is easier to digest because its half broken down when ingested not needing the system to work hard in breaking it down.
 
tristar said:
i`m not saying it is toxic, but that is the way we were bought to think about being sure and safe.

i also think after using all form of linseed that the boiled form is superior,or in my case i find it has the most beneficial effect conditioning animals.

boiled it is a wonderful substance, warming and lining the digestive system, i would imagine it could be ex for ulcers, in fact any animal poorly or out of condition, and yes not scientific but you only have to look at it in the saucepan to see how boiling brings out all the oil and softens the seeds it is completely different to micro and ground.

boiled food is easier to digest because its half broken down when ingested not needing the system to work hard in breaking it down.
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But the main reason for feeding linseed is to provide omega 3, and boiling destroys it, so I really cannot see any advantage. It's also incredibly messy and time- consuming, whereas grinding just before feeding takes seconds and is simple.
 
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