Liveries and Hay - opinion please?

[StaceyTanglewood]

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I just dont see why they gave it 4 sections at 2.30pm - why not give him his night net that is made up ??

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I expect she didn't because the night net is for night time presumably? Therefore she didn't want to mess up your evening haying by providing you with more work?

If the horse had 2 sections of hay at 12.30pm then I wouldn't have expected it to have very much left by 2.30pm, and certainly not enough to last it till 5.30pm for it's evening net.

I am a livery yard owner. No hay is ever restricted on my yard; never has been, never will be. Wastage is factored into my costings so I couldn't care less whether people give their horses extra hay, not that they ever need to as every horse has ad-lib (REAL ad-lib) hay in front of them constantly. I feed enormous 6x5 1,800lb bales and I go through between 12 and 15 per week here. We were running at almost 50% wastage until I recently enlarged the feeders from 6ft rounds to 8ft rounds and we are now running at around only 15% wastage, so much better.

I only feed small squares to horses who live in, which is really only occasionally, most horses live out 24/7 here, however even in my huge hay barn with thousands and thousands of small squares (we are hay producers/merchants), I know immediately if anyone has used any (photographic memory or something, Lol!), not that it makes any difference as I couldn't care less if they take some, it's really not of importance to me. If it is someone off the farm then they generally call me later to let me know they have collected some bales of hay, or they will tell me the next time they come to collect more.

I'm actually surprised at how little hay some people must feed their horses, going by some of the responses on this thread. Standard to me is at least 1 bale of hay per day per horse.

Anyhow, that's how I run my yard; anyone is free to take whatever they wish, I don't care; you do care and it obviously bothers you so having a friendly chat with them sounds like the order of the day; can't see what would be gained by being dictatorial with them.

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you either have very small bales of hay or your horses eat a lot ????

out of the 13 horses none of them had eaten the 2 sections they got at lunch - they hadnt even eaten the 2 sections from the morning ??? so what im saying is why give it another 4 sections !!!

What i am not saying is if it had nothing i would of been annoyed - I checked all the horses at 1.30 and they all had lots of hay and still all had hay when i finished them off x

 

[Doublethyme]

I do think its the time of year when we are all a bit fed up and worn down by the winter, so things that you may sometimes be able to overlook, become important.

As Tia says, bottom line is it is your yard, your rules, so if it does bother you, then you have done the right thing by speaking to the owner, but maybe its time to tighten up your rules and make them clearer, so it doesn't happen again.

That's fair on all sides, as then liveries can make decisions on whether to stay with you or not and you get left with the liveries who suit your yard and rules, which makes for a happy yard all round.

It doesn't matter if it doesn't bother all us on here or if we disagree, if it bothers you, then you have a right to let the owner know.

 

[Tia]

My small squares weigh between 60 - 75lbs each and are around 48" (4ft) long, so not sure how that compares to yours.

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out of the 13 horses none of them had eaten the 2 sections they got at lunch - they hadnt even eaten the 2 sections from the morning ???

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So are you saying none of the horses had even eaten their morning hay, OR their lunchtime hay?

I would be concerned then if this were happening on my yard.

Maybe you need to clarify with your people what they are allowed to do and what they aren't. I would really not like to do this, but perhaps it will work better for you if you suggest that no-one takes any hay and that you will do ALL haying? Then it saves any upset?

Every yard owner runs their yard the way they prefer, so no-one is right, no-one is wrong, just different; and so long as it works for you and your liveries then everyone is happy.

 

[LCobby]

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2 in the morning - 2 at lunch then 4 in the evening ???? mine dont even eat it all ???? thats is basically a bale a day ??

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Our bales are far more than 8 slices, each on about 4 - 6 inches thick. 2 slices will be gone on an hour, and our cob will eat a bale a day if he is in.

I would just ask people to make sure they do not waste hay and sue nets to do so.
Although we feed youngster on floor, but have rubber matting and half bed, so none gets wasted at all.

 

[Erehwemos]

The answer is simple. If she wants to feed her horse as much hay as she wants, and insists on re-doing his beds herself - tell her to go DIY

I bet she wont last when she realises what a pain in the ass it is to have to pick out 4 wedges worth of hay from his bedding....

 

[DressageDevil]

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I'm actually surprised at how little hay some people must feed their horses, going by some of the responses on this thread. Standard to me is at least 1 bale of hay per day per horse.

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Thats what I was thinking.... I always work on the basis of a bale per horse per day...

I also would expect to be able to give my horse more hay if I felt it required it - ok you might have grounds to ask her not to put it on the floor as you use nets and I am assuming that she is happy with her horse eating from a net but I think it would be wrong to 'talk to her' about the amount.....

 

[Pixxie]

we have a white board divided into sections for each horse and you put a tally by your horses name each time you open a new bale and then at the end of each month you just pay for the amount you have used. this way it is easy to separate costs and we dont get situations like this. however that means you have to knwo that each person on your yard is trustworthy enough to write up each time

x

 

[StaceyTanglewood]

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I'm actually surprised at how little hay some people must feed their horses, going by some of the responses on this thread. Standard to me is at least 1 bale of hay per day per horse.

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Thats what I was thinking.... I always work on the basis of a bale per horse per day...

I also would expect to be able to give my horse more hay if I felt it required it - ok you might have grounds to ask her not to put it on the floor as you use nets and I am assuming that she is happy with her horse eating from a net but I think it would be wrong to 'talk to her' about the amount.....

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what you give your horse a bale a day and it goes out in the field from 08.30 - 5pm every day with good grass????

yes as im saying last week they were all having a bale a day or more !!!

they would eat the 2 sections but always have about 1/4 of it left when i went to fill them up again so they obviously dont need anymore than taht or it would all be gone !

 

[StaceyTanglewood]

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we have a white board divided into sections for each horse and you put a tally by your horses name each time you open a new bale and then at the end of each month you just pay for the amount you have used. this way it is easy to separate costs and we dont get situations like this. however that means you have to knwo that each person on your yard is trustworthy enough to write up each time

x

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Or i could get CCTV and monitor what each person does !!!!!!!

 

[DressageDevil]

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what you give your horse a bale a day and it goes out in the field from 08.30 - 5pm every day with good grass????



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Pretty much, yes.

I feed a slice or two with breakfast then if they were coming in at 5pm I would expect them to eat at least 3/4 bale between 5pm and 8.30am - thats 15.5hrs....... so thats not even a slice per hour.......

 

[Eccles]

I have been on both sides here and I think the amount of hay that is fed is very dependent on how much grass your horse has access to. Personally, I think a bale a day when the horse is out every day on good grass is an awful lot, but it does depend on the horse and the workload. If my ISH was fed a bale a day, he would be enormous and very difficult!

I completely see your point StaceyT that your liveries can of course top their horses hay up - within reason. But an extra 4 pieces to me sounds totally OTT - but then they are not paying for each piece they use.

As a livery too, I still think its OTT! Tell them from now on if they want/need to feed extra hay to put it in a net first.

 

[kick_On]

Sound very very complicated

. If it was me - I was say to all livery, hay is X amount with cost within livery, BUT if you want more fine. BUT IT'S Xper bale and extra livery cost WILL at X per day WILL be charged if excess wastages happens, to cover cost of extra mucking out of stables.

This way very simple to livery if they don't like they either pay you more or move on

Sound harsh, so as long as you give them enough notice of changes and talk to every livery, why rules are changing, any normal person can see reason. It will only effort dumb owners IMO

Good luck

 

[Theresa_F]

My 15 hand cob eats 1/2 - 3/4 of a bale a day when in and our 17 hand clydie will eat at least a bale a day when in. When out 9 - 4 they will still eat about the same at this time of year.

I use haybars so for me it is very easy for them to have hay at all times with little or no wastage.

I pay for my own hay so this suits me as I can feed as much as I want and I do like them to have hay at all times when in.

I would have put 2/3 slices in at 2.30 if this had to last to 5.30. As others have suggested, maybe a few extra nets left out for people to use would be a compromise.

For mine, what you are feeding would not be enough, even if out at grass during the day.

 

[DressageDevil]

I just don't see what difference it makes?

IF the hay had been put in the net would you mind the extra hay being given?

I mean, the horse was going to be given more later anyway right? So if she had put it in the net and not on the floor then there would be no wastage?

So, tell her to make sure she puts any extra hay given in the net and NOT on the floor......

 

[pennyh]

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mmm , well i would be annoyed if they were wasteful , or overfeeding the horse & personally i tend to find people will be liberal with what they don't have to pay for! however , i'm afraid two slices morning & two lunch most likely wouldn't be enough for my horse.

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really what 2 in the morning - 2 at lunch then 4 in the evening ???? mine dont even eat it all ???? thats is basically a bale a day ??

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yep , & at that he has lost a little condition this winter! my instructor seems to think i should be giving him even more , & its not like i'm liberal with it because the price is fixed , i stable at home & buy in!

 

[measles]

I am a YO and we give each livery enough space to buy in 2tonnes of hay and then they please themselves using their own. Could you not sell a certain number of bales a month to each client and then they could buy more if necessary? This does need storage and much depends on the size of your yard but we find it the fairest way of doing things.

 

[DressageDevil]

The suggestions of space for liveries to keep their own hay are good ones except that these are FULL livery horses, usually on full livery yards all hay, bedding, feed etc is bought, stored and used by the YO.
I know when I had the yard/stud I could not have had full liveries each with their own store, one I wouldn't have had the space and two it would have taken way too long to go between each persons store making up feeds/nets etc.....

 

[muddy boots]

I would ask all to give hay only in hay nets not on floor, as they are full liveries I wouldn't get into tally charts, monitoring exactly how much is used, as then people with good doers might start fussing about their horses having less therefore should pay less, one price for all. Using nets will cut wastage. Hopefully they wont put forward arguments about feeding from the ground being better for teeth, muscles and lungs!

 

[Ranyhyn]

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what you give your horse a bale a day and it goes out in the field from 08.30 - 5pm every day with good grass????



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Just because its been turned out doesn't mean its been eating. If my horse is hungry he gets hay - and unless a horse is on a restricted diet I can see no pro (other than stingeyness) to not giving them what they want to consume.

 

[StaceyTanglewood]

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what you give your horse a bale a day and it goes out in the field from 08.30 - 5pm every day with good grass????



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Just because its been turned out doesn't mean its been eating. If my horse is hungry he gets hay - and unless a horse is on a restricted diet I can see no pro (other than stingeyness) to not giving them what they want to consume.

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No me neither but as i have said in previous posts the horse hadnt eaten what it already had - so why then give it extra ??? or why not top the haynet back up with an extra section if you think they really needed it

if the horse had had nothing then thats fine but it had some - the night nets were made and in the haybarn right where they took the hay from !!

 

[StaceyTanglewood]

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I have been on both sides here and I think the amount of hay that is fed is very dependent on how much grass your horse has access to. Personally, I think a bale a day when the horse is out every day on good grass is an awful lot, but it does depend on the horse and the workload. If my ISH was fed a bale a day, he would be enormous and very difficult!

I completely see your point StaceyT that your liveries can of course top their horses hay up - within reason. But an extra 4 pieces to me sounds totally OTT - but then they are not paying for each piece they use.

As a livery too, I still think its OTT! Tell them from now on if they want/need to feed extra hay to put it in a net first.

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even a phone call and i would of said put the night net in and ill top it up when i get back at 5 if i need to !!

its like they do it to annoy me which im sure they actually dont - but no one else does it some people if they bring there horse in let it eat the night hay thats in the stable and dont re fill i have to tell them to x

 

[hollyandivy123]

hi StaceyTanglewood
i am not going to suggest you do anything about the hay or nets or sizes of bales how much or how little you feed compared to others ..............................................but i am going to suggest that tonight you pour a lovely bath with bubbles, a nice glass of wine and a good bath book the trashier the better

and have a good long lovely soak and a deep breath, go to bed and wake up and have a look at the sun or snow or rain or mud (sorry forgot where you are) and thank yourself that you are not living in the state of victoria in Australia.

i am not trying to belittle you or anything, but i personally am glad i did not have go through what these people have had to put up with last week down under

start pouring now............................................................

 

[natalia]

hmmmm difficult. I don't agree with haynets and have one that will only eat of the floor and then is fussy and pick through it, although any waste is given to the yard dustbin horse every couple of days, I also like mine to have ad lib hay on the floor at ALL times, I really disagree with portioning it out, a horse will only eat what he needs if given ad lib, and actually you end up saving money as they don't tend to gannet it down like they do when its restricted. i think in your situation if you don't want hay on the floor then get some haybars put it, as these def do discourage waste and feed in a more natural way. its not good for a horse to go at any point without forage and keeps the gut moving. NONE of my horses have EVER had colic in ten years, and i think this has something to do with it, and yes, these are competition horses kept stabled nearly 24/7 in the winter.

 

[Ranyhyn]

TBH I really don't think its worth worrying about. Its only 4 sections. x

 

[Eccles]

Yes and the fact that you go out later on and top hay up if necessary makes it sound very odd too! I always used to check my liveries at 10ish and top up hay then if necessary (it rarely was) and then take rugs off horses that their owners had put on because the horses would always be sweating buckets!!! (... sigh ... )

I really think all you can do without causing offence is ask that all extra hay should be put in a net, then even if the horse doesn't eat it at least it won't be wasted. I think too, that if they had to stuff a net they would probably use a lot less - just a hunch (!) it takes more effort to stuff a net than chuck some on the floor!

 

[eoe]

Stacey just to make you feel better I totally agree with you it is wasteful, I always use haynets to avoid wastage like you I appreciate how expensive hay/haylage is and what goes into making it. Obviously your livery knows the routine and that wherever you are you or a delegated person would be there to give the evening haynets and that if you noticed a horse had no hay and you saw this that you would indeed give it more hay. The problem is that a lot of new age horsey people don't realise that overfeeding horses is a dangerous as underfeeding them and having an overweight horse is worse than having an underweight horse as it takes a lot more time for a horse to lose weight than a horse who needs to put on weight. Perhaps it is an idea to get what was the ILPH in to give a talk to your liveries on feed management and overweight horses, it might open their eyes and actually appreciate what you are doing, especially if you have horses on the yard who are ganites and will eat everything you give them and become obese and those who if you give them too much get phased by it and refuse to eat. I was always taught as obviously you were to feed little and often.

 

[StaceyTanglewood]

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TBH I really don't think its worth worrying about. Its only 4 sections. x

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but every week they do this - im not worried about the 4 sections but he had hay ??? and was going to get more ????

 

[StaceyTanglewood]

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hmmmm difficult. I don't agree with haynets and have one that will only eat of the floor and then is fussy and pick through it, although any waste is given to the yard dustbin horse every couple of days, I also like mine to have ad lib hay on the floor at ALL times, I really disagree with portioning it out, a horse will only eat what he needs if given ad lib, and actually you end up saving money as they don't tend to gannet it down like they do when its restricted. i think in your situation if you don't want hay on the floor then get some haybars put it, as these def do discourage waste and feed in a more natural way. its not good for a horse to go at any point without forage and keeps the gut moving. NONE of my horses have EVER had colic in ten years, and i think this has something to do with it, and yes, these are competition horses kept stabled nearly 24/7 in the winter.

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I dont mind them putting it on the floor they are on straw its just the shavings beds but there was a haynet made up for the horse - also owner has continuosly tells me he doesnt eat off the floor ????

other note on this is they did teh same last weekend - horse puts hay in water buckets then refuses to drink - so in morning horse is dying of thirst ???

 

[Ranyhyn]

Well if you feel that strongly I think a yard memo is in order to re-outline the rules. But still try not to worry - don't sweat the small stuff they say xx

 

[StaceyTanglewood]

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Stacey just to make you feel better I totally agree with you it is wasteful, I always use haynets to avoid wastage like you I appreciate how expensive hay/haylage is and what goes into making it. Obviously your livery knows the routine and that wherever you are you or a delegated person would be there to give the evening haynets and that if you noticed a horse had no hay and you saw this that you would indeed give it more hay. The problem is that a lot of new age horsey people don't realise that overfeeding horses is a dangerous as underfeeding them and having an overweight horse is worse than having an underweight horse as it takes a lot more time for a horse to lose weight than a horse who needs to put on weight. Perhaps it is an idea to get what was the ILPH in to give a talk to your liveries on feed management and overweight horses, it might open their eyes and actually appreciate what you are doing, especially if you have horses on the yard who are ganites and will eat everything you give them and become obese and those who if you give them too much get phased by it and refuse to eat. I was always taught as obviously you were to feed little and often.

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thank you ! i honestly dont think it would work though and they wouldnt listen

I do worry sometimes but its a case of damned if i do and damned if i dont !!!!

if i let them do what they want the horses would eventually suffer - if i dont them im a nasty yard owner !!

touches wood * i have never had a horse with colic over the 5 years ive had the yard or the 20 odd years ive had my own