Liveries, turnout, hay, storage. Had enough!

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Gypley

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Im going to apologise in advance as I know this is going to be a long one. But I'd really like some outside opinions.

So as I've mentioned before, friend and I took on a yard of 5 stables for our 3 horses. To help cover costs we filled the empty 2 stables with liveries, who moved together from their previous yard as they were both friends and wanted to stay together.

At the yard, we have an empty old block of 4 stables which we use as storage. 2 of which leak. The liveries share a 12x12 (non leaky!) stable as storage, and also have a 6x24 ft room which runs along the back of the old block which they have sole use of.


I have a 12x12 storage stable for my hay (I have 2 horses)
And my friend has a 12x10 stable for her storage (which does leak so she's only able to use half of it)

The last stable is no good to anyone as it's incredibly leaky . So we store round bales (4) in here for the field on pallets and covered in tarps just to keep them out of the way.

Now, when the liveries moved in, we offered to add their hay to our orders to try and be helpful, and also include them on feed deliveries etc. my other half kindly picks up the round bales (which we share between our horses and theirs) every few weeks.

So really, considering it's a DIY yard, we help them out however we can.

its been almost a year of having them here, and my friend and I both feel our generosity is wearing thin. I've lost count of the times I've stood out in the rain all day long waiting for deliveries and got not so much as a thank you from the liveries.
my friend ordered a feed delivery recently and unbeknownst to her, a livery tagged her feed onto the end of it. When my friend waiting took a day off work to see this delivery in, she was surprised to find these additional items on the order, and was highly embarrassed when the driver asked her for payment and she had no means to pay him!

Every two weeks my friend and I roll out 2 round bales through the mud and sludge for their horses (as well as ours) to eat. When these run out, they make no attempt to replace them and roll them out themselves.

I feel like we're doing all the donkey work and they put in zero effort.

So, I've now said they are going to have to source their own field hay. And used the excuse that in struggling to convince my partner
To collect them so often, and the only way I can get him to do it is by reducing the number of horses eating it, which will in turn reduce how often he has to collect them.

Now they have the hump as they won't have use of the end leaky stable and I won't let them sort rounds on the yard.
Even even gone to the extent to source them numbers for local farmers who are happy to deliver one bale at a time and drop it directly into the field. What more do they want!! And I'm any case, with just two horses, I don't see why they need separate field hay and can't just use the hestons they make Haynets out of ??

am am I being unreasonable? I think they have ample storage as I know other yards in the area limit liveries to one pallet of space person! Yet I'm made to feel like a bad person?!

I dont want them to leave as although I've winged and moaned about them here, but they're not ALL bad, and it's a case of better the devil you know. But I won't be dictated to who has what.

I probably sound pins like a right ogar , but I think we've done enough for them, and I'm sick of worrying about other peoples horses!

How ow would you feel if you were the livery in this situation. Am I being difficult ?
 
I think the problem is a lack of communication. Do they know how you feel ? Putting hay out and waiting for deliveries is the sort of thing that YO's tend to do unless, right at the beginning, it's made clear that they have to source their own hay and feed.
You have changed the goal posts so of course they feel put out, especially if they are unaware of how you feel. I understand that you feel you're getting a raw deal, but you need to explain to them rather than just changing the arrangement.
It'd be a shame to have a bad atmosphere on the yard because of a misunderstanding.
 
Perhaps would be easier if you added field hay to monthly rent instead, that way its covered and included in the bill, I presume they are all in the field together? Or that they can source their own at the current rate.

Alternatively put in place a rota that its clear when its their turn to put out the hay bale.

Does sound like lots of storage space to me (im a one pallet and a corner type of storage girl)

I do however think its ridiculously cheeky to add onto feed orders and expect you to pay.
 
They expect that what you offered in the first place is a right, as anybody would. You offered to add them to hay deliveries and feed orders. As your friend made an order, it would seem the livery thought it OK to tack her order on. You DID offer! If you don't want to do it anymore, tell them to make their own arrangements and ensure the feed suppliers know that they're no longer on your account. Are their horses in the same field as yours? Because if they are I doubt you'll see any round bale being delivered in there while you're still putting your own in.

They both have what is effectively a 12x12 stable each for storage, I can't see why they need more.
 
Thanks DAMS. I think I do need to have a word with them, but they tend to get very defensive and I hate confrontation.
It was agreed at the start they they were to source their own hay but we were willing to let them order with us (and be there to see it in, not just leave it to my friend and I) perhaps it's common practice on most DIY yards for the YM to do this, but having not been on a livery yard myself, I think I'm a bit in the dark about some yard etiquette, which perhaps I should look into a bit more.

Their horses have their own fields so they are free to do as they like with what and how much they put out. I've even offered to put the hay out for them on turnout each day, providing it's ready on a wheelbarrow. I feel like there's not much more I can offer them to please them other than surrendering control of my yard!

I don't want any bad atmosphere, I just wish they would be a bit more flexible .
I will defiantly have a word with them . A conversation I'm not looking forward to !
 
Sounds like a lack of communication to me, too. I would add hay to livery price and reflect the cost of your collection in that. Make a rota for rolling it out. With four of you that should be a doddle. I think the feed order is a misunderstanding. Many yard owners add feed onto monthly bills, so perhaps she thought you had an account. I certainly wouldn't have known that you'd pay the delivery driver. Perhaps I'm naive! I don't think you need a confrontational meeting. Just tell them you've had an idea about the hay and go from there.
 
9tails, it's not the fact she added to the delivery, that's fine. It's that she didn't even let my friend know it arrange for payment for the feed which left my friend feeling very embarrassed !
 
Why are you offering all this then geting the arse when they take you up on it?

" I've even offered to put the hay out for them on turnout each day, providing it's ready on a wheelbarrow. I feel like there's not much more I can offer them to please them other than surrendering control of my yard! "

They're perfectly capable of putting their own hay out so just put your own round bale out in your field and leave them to sort their own horses.

Regarding them ordering hay with you, when does your hay delivery arrive? I work 9-5 with added travel so if you were to make the delivery on a Thursday afternoon I wouldn't be able to get there.
 
Absolutely, I think you have to set higher standards from the beginning - you can always drop them later.

I would suspect that they are quite young and naive and poss used to having their mums run around them so think it is quite natural to have people running around them and have never through how annoying it is for the person on the receiving end. They probably don't understand either that the money doesn't just go into your pocket but you have expenses in running a yard - assuming they are young it is quite natural for the young to be a little bit self-centred so you really do have to set out what you want.

So, I would talk to them and after then write down the new terms and conditions so they always have it as a reference! They will get the hump for a bit (thats human nature I afraid) but I guess you will have to go through a difficult period for a bit and it will either settle down or it won't in which case time they left!
 
I know they are DIY, but you have taken on the yard lease and sublet so essentially you are now the yard manager. With this comes managing!!

It sounds like you have built a rod for you own back. Why not just discuss with them the expectations of sharing workload? If they aren't willing to do some of the work then fine, you sort yours, they sort theirs.
 
Oh dear, do people not understand that DIY means DO IT YOURSELF ? These people are taking the proverbial. No way would I be putting hay out for them, nor increasing their storage. Speaking from (bitter) experience, never expect a livery to do anything over and above what they believe the minimum to be and certainly don't expect them to be helpful!
 
You need to sit down and have a conversation with them. Your expectations may be completely different to theirs.

At any point have you actually told them that they need to do all these things themselves?

A lot of DIY yards will manage things like hay and feed. Perhaps their old yard did and they don't know any different.
 
it sounds like complete miscommunication. and apart from not putting bales out themselves I can kind of understand why they are confused. If it was put to them that the feed can be 'added on to an existing order' then i can see why they would think its ok to add on a few bags if there was a delivery anyways. And if someone else always waited for their own delivery then what difference would a few bags being added to the order make. They might have thought you had a feed account, or else it could be settled later. i know I would. If it had been said to them "if you want to add feed to an order leave an envelope with cash hidden here, plus we have a rota for waiting on deliveries so mark down what day you can do' then it would have been clear from the start how it worked.

if its diy why are you offering to put out hay for them? Its muddling the issue. just write clearly how you want the system to work, so everyone understands and no-one feels hard done by.
 
Thanks for all the replies. Puts it into perspective seeing it from different points of view.

The reason I offered to put hay out in the morning is because although it's DIY , we turn out their horses mon-fri, so obviously they are not there to put hay out themselves .

I thought it was only fair that after making them sort their own hay, that I offer to put it out for them, seen as it was my decision to change the arrangement.
 
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Gypley said:
Thanks for all the replies. Puts it into perspective seeing it from different points of view.

The reason I offered to put hay out in the morning is because although it's DIY , we turn out their horses mon-fri, so obviously they are not there to put hay out themselves .

I thought it was only fair that after making them sort their own hay, that I offer to put it out for them, seen as it was my decision to change the arrangement.
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So it's actually part livery then!?

No wonder they are so confused!!
 
If you are putting their horses out Mon to Fri and also putting out hay, effectively you are doing assisted livery, not DIY. I would call a yard meeting for all and sit down and discuss the relevant issues.
 
Gypley said:
Thanks DAMS. I think I do need to have a word with them, but they tend to get very defensive and I hate confrontation.
It was agreed at the start they they were to source their own hay but we were willing to let them order with us .........

Their horses have their own fields so they are free to do as they like with what and how much they put out. ... I feel like there's not much more I can offer them to please them other than surrendering control of my yard!

I don't want any bad atmosphere, I just wish they would be a bit more flexible .
I will defiantly have a word with them . A conversation I'm not looking forward to !
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Oh the joys of being a YO!!!

Think OP that this is YOUR yard is it not............ methinks these people have been there a year now and have got a bit entrenched.

Forgive me, I am not sure how the situation functions, i.e. do you RENT the yard from someone else, and these two are sub-lets, or do you own the yard outright? If the former, then you need to check the small print in your tenancy/yard agreement as in a lot of places sub-letting isn't welcome - unless you tell the owner of the property and/or there is a clause that you can do so. But I think you should check if you don't own the place outright.

But anyway, um, I'm presuming that if you in fact ARE the YO that you HAVE got a livery contract in place??? If not, which I suspect is the case here??? (god help us) then NOW might be the time to sit everyone down over a coffee and some cakes and sort one out. There's no time like the present!

Have a look at the BHS website as there are some good specimen ones on there. You will need to adapt it to your particular yard. But I feel that IF you are going to continue to let these liveries use your yard, you do need to set some groundrules in place. It sounds very much like you are feeling up against the wall a bit with this whole situation; but dammit, this is YOUR yard FFS!!!

I'd be inclined to get things off on a proper footing. You do not HAVE to give a reason: but get everyone together (you don't need to ber "confrontational" about it, just call a meeting), and IF there's a contract in place, then go through it again with the liveries, looking at exactly who does what, and tweaking where necessary.

If not............... then for both YOUR and the liveries' sake, then get one sorted ASAP.

Think frankly OP that you're being taken for a ride here: and your way forward is to get a contract sorted out. If liveries don't like it/flounce their petticoats about it: then the solution is simples.......... tell 'em to go!!! You don't need this sort of hassle.

I'm a DIY Yard Owner, and DIY means DIY and NOT YODIT (i.e. Yard Owner Do It:)).

Frankly think you need to get the situation under control now before it gets worse. And the only way you can do that is to get the thing on a proper footing by using a contract.
 
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Roughly whereabouts in Kent are you? I know two people who are really good liveries who are looking for a move! Seriously, sit them down, tell them how it will be, give them a contract and ask them to consider over the next week whether they want to stay or not.
 
MiJodsR2BlinkinTite said:
Oh the joys of being a YO!!!

Think OP that this is YOUR yard is it not............ methinks these people have been there a year now and have got a bit entrenched.

Forgive me, I am not sure how the situation functions, i.e. do you RENT the yard from someone else, and these two are sub-lets, or do you own the yard outright? If the former, then you need to check the small print in your tenancy/yard agreement as in a lot of places sub-letting isn't welcome - unless you tell the owner of the property and/or there is a clause that you can do so. But I think you should check if you don't own the place outright.

But anyway, um, I'm presuming that if you in fact ARE the YO that you HAVE got a livery contract in place??? If not, which I suspect is the case here??? (god help us) then NOW might be the time to sit everyone down over a coffee and some cakes and sort one out. There's no time like the present!

Have a look at the BHS website as there are some good specimen ones on there. You will need to adapt it to your particular yard. But I feel that IF you are going to continue to let these liveries use your yard, you do need to set some groundrules in place. It sounds very much like you are feeling up against the wall a bit with this whole situation; but dammit, this is YOUR yard FFS!!!

I'd be inclined to get things off on a proper footing. You do not HAVE to give a reason: but get everyone together (you don't need to ber "confrontational" about it, just call a meeting), and IF there's a contract in place, then go through it again with the liveries, looking at exactly who does what, and tweaking where necessary.

If not............... then for both YOUR and the liveries' sake, then get one sorted ASAP.

Think frankly OP that you're being taken for a ride here: and your way forward is to get a contract sorted out. If liveries don't like it/flounce their petticoats about it: then the solution is simples.......... tell 'em to go!!! You don't need this sort of hassle.

I'm a DIY Yard Owner, and DIY means DIY and NOT YODIT (i.e. Yard Owner Do It:)).

Frankly think you need to get the situation under control now before it gets worse. And the only way you can do that is to get the thing on a proper footing by using a contract.
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thank you MiJods, im glad someone thinks the same way as me and im not just a barking horse woman.


I rent the yard and the yard owner is happy for us to sub let, so no issue there.

We do have a contract with them, but without pulling a copy out, I cant remember specifically what's in it and what's not. I think I need to pull it out and review it as this last year has been a real learning curve and there are probably things that didn't seem important at the time but with the issues that have now arisen, need to be slotted in.

Tinypony my yard is in the Bexley area. although ideally id like to resolve the issue rather than send them on their way. Wouldnt it be funny if your friends were already my liveries !
 
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Gypley said:
Wouldnt it be funny if your friends were already my liveries !
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Now that would be funny!!

Hope you get it sorted OP. I think as long as everyone knows where they stand and what expectations you have as YO then it will be enjoyable for you all again.

Sit everyone down with a cuppa and some cake for a chat :)
 
As I've said on previous posts about DIY liveries; tell them to do one, that's what I've just done with one of mine. Sick to death of doing everything bar mucking out ( fill water, order hay, sweep up mess, feed horse at weekends when one doesn't turn up because they are hungover, etc etc etc )

Its like having another child on the yard not a 50 year old.

Life's too short not enjoy your horses the way you want :)
 
I think you need to write out a new list of yard rules and state what their responsibilities are re looking after their own horses.

I went from keeping horses at home as a child to full livery, and then DIY, and I'm still flabbergasted by the way some of the DIYers behaved in terms of thinking they were on some kind of unofficial part livery provided free of charge by the other liveries.

I find it so much easier being at a yard which offers paid for services. I hear what you say about the devil you know, but there must be something wrong with them if they don't offer to do some of the hay and straw ordering or meeting when they are on DIY. There do just seem to be some people out there who don't want to look after their own horses, but who won't shell out for full or part livery. I'd give them notice - I couldn't be bothered with them.
 
The area that the OP is in...

1) Fences mended and fields fertilised by YO/YM, DIYs may be asked to remove one barrow of poo a week from the field but often this isn't expected and generally YO/YM will have a hard time getting anyone to do it anyway. Horses wormed (owner pays), turnout restricted, fields rotated - all at YO/YM request.

2) A feed which is paid for and made by the horses owner is left for the YO/YM to give the horse breakfast, rugs (if rugged) are changed and horses turned out - at least Monday to Friday if not 7days.

3) There is a few local companies that deliver hay/haylage, straw/chippings and feed. Delivery often means stacked into your storage area if the delivery man knows where it is and has access (not locked). Cash on delivery is common if the client is known to the company.

1 & 2 above will be included in the livery price. I realise that many of you will consider this part livery or assisted livery but in that area its standard DIY livery. As such, and given how much the OP has offered to do for the liveries, I'm not surprised that the liveries have got grumpy at the YO/YM taking offence at being left to get on with it.
 
Gypley said:
Thanks for all the replies. Puts it into perspective seeing it from different points of view.

The reason I offered to put hay out in the morning is because although it's DIY , we turn out their horses mon-fri, so obviously they are not there to put hay out themselves .

I thought it was only fair that after making them sort their own hay, that I offer to put it out for them, seen as it was my decision to change the arrangement.
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When I have been on a yard with this arrangement I have put the hay out in the field the night before once I have bought my horse in - then it is already for them in the morning.
 
Goodness, just up the road from me! Well, if you are looking for new liveries any time let me know. Meanwhile, good luck with this lot. DIY'ers should be self-sufficient and grateful for help in my opinion. I know I am.

Gypley said:
thank you MiJods, im glad someone thinks the same way as me and im not just a barking horse woman.


I rent the yard and the yard owner is happy for us to sub let, so no issue there.

We do have a contract with them, but without pulling a copy out, I cant remember specifically what's in it and what's not. I think I need to pull it out and review it as this last year has been a real learning curve and there are probably things that didn't seem important at the time but with the issues that have now arisen, need to be slotted in.

Tinypony my yard is in the Bexley area. although ideally id like to resolve the issue rather than send them on their way. Wouldnt it be funny if your friends were already my liveries !
Click to expand...
 
Sugar_and_Spice said:
The area that the OP is in...

1) Fences mended and fields fertilised by YO/YM, DIYs may be asked to remove one barrow of poo a week from the field but often this isn't expected and generally YO/YM will have a hard time getting anyone to do it anyway. Horses wormed (owner pays), turnout restricted, fields rotated - all at YO/YM request.

2) A feed which is paid for and made by the horses owner is left for the YO/YM to give the horse breakfast, rugs (if rugged) are changed and horses turned out - at least Monday to Friday if not 7days.

3) There is a few local companies that deliver hay/haylage, straw/chippings and feed. Delivery often means stacked into your storage area if the delivery man knows where it is and has access (not locked). Cash on delivery is common if the client is known to the company.

1 & 2 above will be included in the livery price. I realise that many of you will consider this part livery or assisted livery but in that area its standard DIY livery. As such, and given how much the OP has offered to do for the liveries, I'm not surprised that the liveries have got grumpy at the YO/YM taking offence at being left to get on with it.
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Wow! I'm not sure what yard your at. But this is how I want things to work at my yard. And I don't think area should have anything to do with it (although I know some pretty shoddy DIY yards locally) I'd certainly like to think mines not one of them!

1. Fencing and field fertilising is maintained by YM. Liveries are to clear their field of poo at least EVERY weekend. Without fail. In the summer, when the horses are living out. Poo picking is to be done EVERY DAY *shock horror* .Owners pay for wormers when necessary and routine worm counts. Horses have been out all winter (with very few days where I've completely restricted turnout . I'd say a week in total, tops) granted the field they're on isn't great, as I've just used it as a sacrifice paddock. But horses have been out all winter nonetheless.

2. Horses are fed and turned out in the morning. But I will NOT change rugs unless at extra cost. This is done mon-fri.

3.Deliveries are not stacked by the delivery driver (who do you use??) but even if they did someone will still have to hang around the yard all day (usually me!) to let them in the gate.

I don't feel like all mentioned should be included just because of where the yard is situated. I don't run this place as a business, I do it to help cover costs. I don't particularly want any involvement with anyone else's horses, I just want to enjoy my own but before I get to do this I have to pick up the slack of everyone else.

Image it was a yard at your home. You wouldn't put up with and rubbish from anyone then, regardless of area. It's just unfortunate for me and my friend that we are reliant on their contribution to the rent.
 
I know most of the yards in the area and surrounding areas. I've been at a few of them. This is how DIY livery works in that part of Kent.

If you want things to be done differently at your yard, fine. You're not being unreasonable. But you've taken on liveries who have probably come from a yard where things are done as I described and you haven't told them that things are different on your yard, you've offered DIY livery which to them means what I said.

You're wondering why they won't pitch in with helping out and theyre probably wondering why their YO doesn't want to do the job that they're expecting a YO to. The time to make things clear was when they looked around before arriving with the horses. A year down the line I'm not surprised they're grumpy that you're wanting to change things. The whole thing sounds like a misunderstanding between you and your liveries.

For deliveries I used Tim, Frogpool and a company whose name escapes me. There's also PAC Feeds.
 
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