Livery bill shock (long rant alert)

You'd probably feed around 15kg a day, a large bale is in the region of 300kg therefore about 1.5 bales a month. Problem is the wetter stuff can go off quite quickly especially in warmer weather. You'd probs get away with it mid winter but spring/summer/autumn you might be better with small bale haylage or hay
 
Batgirl IME yards have no mucking out policy and owners do it when they want to. Poor practice is a matter of opinion.

OP I would move the horse to another (any other!) yard, because this lot are being unreasonable. I wouldn't bother giving notice either to avoid the inevitable row over the bill. It's possible they think they're being helpful, but they've still taken over your horse and they have no right to, whatever their reasoning. As someone else said, *you* are the customer. You're no less of a customer because you're young. I wouldn't be discussing it with the YO, I'd just leave and hand over what I was prepared to pay.

I would go through the bill and pay: livery charges for Monday to Friday as arranged, hay/feed/bedding costs (if the price is steep that's your fault for not asking what the price was), if the horse needed vet/farrier/dentist/wormer then I'd pay that too.

I would not pay: livery services I hadn't asked for (eg weekends or exercising), vet/farrier/dentist visits that were not needed yet (and were organised for YO convenience instead of horse due), supplements I hadn't asked for horse to have, tack or equipment I hadn't asked for them to buy, inflated hay/feed/bedding costs if they've told you one price but charged another (and didn't inform you of the increase in advance).
 
Ouchies! I can imagine why you are feeling a little pee'd off!

One bit of advice I have found along the way. The people most certainly make the place and if that means sacrificing a few facilities or services for a better atmosphere then so be it! We all pay a lot of money for our horses so should be able to enjoy them :D

Re. Vaccinations etc. I actually run a Livery Yard and must say I do this for a lot of my liveries. Its so important to me for all horses to be vaccinated, shod correctly etc
BUT.. I always give one months notice to my liverys, means they have time to decide whether or not they want to be there, or how to pay.. and if they wish to cancel.. then they have time too!
I would never just put it on there bill

Hope you get it all sorted anyway :)
 
I have been on 3 yards where full livery is and option and part livery common where they have a policy that stables should be mucked out in the morning and I would hazard a guess that you are in a minority if you think it isn't good practice to muck out the morning following a full night in the stable. but like you say a matter of opinion. I certainly don't think well of people that leave their horses unnecessarily stood in their muck because they can't be bother to either get there themselves or pay someone to at least turn out or muck out for them. there are of course extenuating circumstances.
 
Costs for you (will vary of course, but to give you an idea) haylage £7 per bale, shavings/miscanthus £7 per bale, straw about £3, high fibre cubes £6 per bag, long soak sugarbeet £8, Alfa A £12. How much you feed of course depends on how much work and the type of horse - I assume he only gets ridden at weekends, if he does fairly well forage should be his main foodstuff (should be anyway!), if you're giving cubes/mix as a token feed a bag might last you a couple of months, but 3kg per day is scant going to last a week...
 
Out of interest, what have you been charged for on your bill? Its hard to comment, and I can't help thinking that you should have researched how much haylage costs etc before you agreed to part livery... Yes they shouldn't take four months to bill you, but had that happened to me I would have been on and on at them for a bill, not letting it slide along. I'm sorry but I think you've got a small part to play in this too, and haven't been organised either..:(
 
30 minutes in the morning if not riding is plenty of time for full muck out, feed, hay and clean water. Is horse not turned out so not standing in dirty bed anyway?
 
This doesn't sound good. Apart from the added costs (are they things mentioned in your contract ?), you are not happy at this yard - so something has got to give.

A horse is a very expensive thing to keep, as you are finding out, and that's just when things are going right. So you really should be able enjoy it when you are at the yard, and feel like YOU are the one in control of YOUR horse.

I am sure you know the answer deep down - you have to leave this yard and find an alternative. :)
 
I kind of agree with honey08.

You need to/should have Layed down exactly what you require and what you don't. Anything regarding vet I would arrange myself. Supplements & feed must be ran past you. Receiving a bill after 4 months is shocking and I'd be rather peeved bit then I'd've probably chased them up after 1 month! I pay weekly, there's no way if come up with 4months livery in the one month! I also think you perhaps need to the think your finances aswell.
 
Most DIY yards will share large haylage bales. Our area are about 45 pounds. My 17hh horse on good grazing daytime ate 20lbs a night which cost about 40-45 a month.

Will use more if not out in field all day on reasonable grass.

If need to use small bale haylage or small bale hay could cost about three times as much.
 
I think the Op has stated she didnt leave the horse stood on a dirty bed, that she skipped out the pooh and was going to do a full muck out in the afternoon when she had more time, i think thats perfectly acceptable.
 
Honey08 said:
Yes they shouldn't take four months to bill you, but had that happened to me I would have been on and on at them for a bill, not letting it slide along. I'm sorry but I think you've got a small part to play in this too, and haven't been organised either..:(
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Every weekend since after about 6 weeks I have said 'please can I have the bill soon?' and I get 'Yes, will do it this week'. I've given her my email after she promised to email it to me the next day (about a month ago).. never got it! :(
I don't want to be a nag, but have quietly asked for it each time I've seen her! I've also asked her on several occasions for a rough estimate but she's never given me an answer.. Might have softened the blow today but never mind. She's not someone I'd want to get on the wrong side of!
 
Surely you knew the livery bill would be coming, even if it didn't actually get to you.....the yo wasn't going to be keeping your horse for nothing, so I guess you have been keeping the money aside that you *thought* it was going to cost?

Without knowing what you have actually been charged, it is hard to form an opinion of whether it is unreasonable or not.....

Unfortunately, horses and anything horse related is very expensive and adds up very quickly....a vet visit here, edt there, supplements etc.....the only reason I don't get very scared is because I pay it all myself, so it doesn't come in one big bill!!!

If you aren't happy at the yard, then I agree you should leave but I would advise you to do your sums first!!!
 
How much was your 4 month bill, minus the vets and dentist stuff? Presumably you had been putting aside the livery money so what is it that has been charged that has taken you so much by surprise?
 
I'm currently in the process of adding up costs then going to draft a letter to the lady with the land in my village. I finish school for christmas on wednesday, so will have a whole month off.. perfect time to get him settled in my village then prepare a routine for when my serious exams start! :eek: Just hope I can convince my parents.. Will probably have to show them this so they can understand what a good decision DIY would be!
 
My clients are billed monthly. Any vet fees that are incurred the owners know about prior to the vet being called. I communicate with my clients and I have a water-tight contract so everyone knows where they stand and what is included in the price. You need to communicate with your YO and let her/him know what you want out of this agreement. I'm not sure it's completely relevant the information you've given about the size of the school or any of the other facilities as you obviously were happy with them when you chose to put your horse there? As to being billed for 4 months, presumably you held the money owing in an account waiting for the bill, and surely they kept you updated on costs for vet etc. therefore you must have had a rough idea about how much the bill was going to end up being? Poor practice to bill every 4 months granted and about the other things being told to you after the event but if this is how they have done things in the past it's time for you to step up to the plate and let them know that you're not a walkover and you NEED to know before the event about what's happening and how much it's likely to cost you.
 
If the YO has specifically requested the vet to come and do something on your horse... then they are liable for the bill, as the "contract" for the work is between YO and vet...
 
We don't know what they charged you, but for part livery plus vaccinations and teeth, and assuming a few more extras than just a hoof supplement, you're probably looking at (rough guess) £1200 - £1500 for four months. If it's much more than this I'd be questioning the costs in detail; if it's much less I'd be questioning your budgeting.

It sounds like a decent enough yard in some ways - walking him out in hand for a leg stretch when he couldn't be turned out wouldn't happen everywhere!
 
Rent for the stable and grazing is £100 per month - Diy price. Then extras (minus farrier and jabs) have totaled to over £800. Add it all up and picture my reaction!
 
Would you be happy to post your bill on here and we can give you an idea of how fair it is?

To give you a good idea

we pay £25 a week for DIY,
£10 a week for hay (ad lib, but spent similar on small bales of hay when sourcing ourselves - 3-4 bales a week at £3 a bale)
bedding we pay £10 per week for ad lib sawdust, brilliant bedding but yard buys in bulk, on shavings I used to go through 3 bales a week at £6-7 a bale but my mare is wet

I kept track for a couple of months and winter costs for me about £250 a month including feed for a cob and supplements. We have them turned out in the morning for £1.50 a day, cheaper than the fuel to get there :D

Our yard offers full livery at £60 for 5 day full livery or £80 for 7 day livery which includes all bedding and hay and all jobs on those days.

You need to add vets and dentist etc on top of this. To give an idea a vet visit is about £50 plus meds/specific procedures, dentist costs about £40 a visit. Worming is about £20 a tube and farrier tends to be about £20 for a trim and £60 for a full set of shoes depending on your area.

To give you an idea of working DIY, I work 8-4, 5 days a week and am studying a 1/2 time uni course so am studying 8-4 most weekend days so it is doable to have your horse on DIY. It takes about 30-60 minutes to do all jobs a night or morning plus any riding and talking :D

In your situation given you are unhappy I would look for another yard regardless of the bill situation.
 
timiton said:
Rent for the stable and grazing is £100 per month - Diy price. Then extras (minus farrier and jabs) have totaled to over £800. Add it all up and picture my reaction!
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tbh....that sounds like a 'normal' price.....

full livery at a decent yard here is about £450/month.....
 
So your total was around £1200 for 4 months 5 day part livery? TOTALLY ACCEPTABLE, and in no way have you been charged unreasonably. I think you need to take a long hard look at your finances and expectations of horse ownership. Get your horse on grass DIY and do the work yourself
 
wench said:
If the YO has specifically requested the vet to come and do something on your horse... then they are liable for the bill, as the "contract" for the work is between YO and vet...
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Not true. When I arrange for the vet to come to horses not owned by me, the owners are all registered with the vet; I have it in writing every time they want the vet to come out and I just book him and handle the horse for the vets visit. Depending on the client, the vet may send their bill to them c/o me or he will send it direct to their home address. At no point am I responsible for their bill. My contract states this also for emergencies that I am never liable for the vet bill of a horse not owned by me.
 
timiton said:
Rent for the stable and grazing is £100 per month - Diy price. Then extras (minus farrier and jabs) have totaled to over £800. Add it all up and picture my reaction!
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That totals to 200 per month i charge 400 for basic part livery. So for a 4 month bill thats pretty cheap TBH. DIY in my area with abosolutly no help is over 200 pounds per month.
 
Well it depends. What did the place tell you it would cost per month when you took the stable??

If its three times what they told you then it doesn't matter how reasonable or unreasonable other folk might think it is, it is three times what they told you.
 
timiton said:
Rent for the stable and grazing is £100 per month - Diy price. Then extras (minus farrier and jabs) have totaled to over £800. Add it all up and picture my reaction!
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My reaction to that bill would be a huge sigh of relief! That is much less than I had expected. I thought your bill just for livery would be around 1,600 for the 4 months plus the added extras for vet etc.
 
I would consider that to be reasonable, £100 plus the hay, bedding, feed and extras could easily add up to that (over £100 in shavings over 4 months etc etc), what isn't reasonable is not detailing costs in advance.

Look very carefully at your budgeting as I would expect DIY to cost nearly this with all the extras that you will have to buy at the time and not be billed for. Excluding the vet, supplements etc the others aren't exactly extras.
 
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