Livery bill shock (long rant alert)

KristmasKat said:
Might come to you for a lesson The Xmas Furry sounds impressive, I'm struggling to get below 40 mins with one at the moment.
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Happy to help :D
Tips:
Make up all day & night nets at weekend (even if just tipping out the hay, easier to gauge correct amount).
Never cross the yard empty handed except on return from turnout & then only stop to pick up barrow....
Have winter turnout fields right by yard so the commute is very close.
Sometimes make up feeds into tubs/pots at weekend to tip out into buckets. (I dont often do this at present as little is being fed, but helps if using several feeds)
Its my yard, so I dont do a proper sweep up till the 1st day I have in daylight ;) (I just scrape up anything in passing in between;) )
Train equines to walk out quietly to turnout when their door is opened, even if I have tipped more hay out in field. (works with TF most of the time, unless I've left another door open to somewhere more exciting :D)

Oh - and keep moving briskly :D
 
I charge £70 per week for five day part livery.
T walk the horse inhand is something I'd personally think was good....tho I agree the yard should only do the agreed services...
My livery was a set charge per week or month. The owner could request additional services
If the cost is 1200 for four months that's reasonable to cheap charges to me esp if teeth and other extras are included within this....
 
My YO rarely gives us bills, only set up a year and he has computer problems, it's more on trust (DIY), field and stable cost £100 a month and we know what hay and straw costs per bale, so just transfer it at the end/beginning of month, we take our own hay/straw out the barn so it is very much a trust thing, but it works. That way no nasty surprises :)
 
I think I misunderstood as £200 for services and feed hay bedding seemed so cheap that I thought that £800 totaled meant feed, services, bedding hay added total for the month as her bill was three times as much as was expected. I would have thought most people looking at part livery 5 days would be budgeting about £300-400 a month so 3 times as much as expected would be a bill of about £900 per month.

In that case £200 is about £10 per day for services, feed, bedding, hay which is very reasonable. To expect this for £3 a day is very unrealistic and something has gone wrong with the original budgeting.

Sugar_and_Spice said:
SO1 but OP says 100 pounds pcm DIY then 800 pounds total for the rest. I read it as 200 pounds extra per month x4 months, i.e. 3x pcm what OP was expecting to pay.

This would be shocking if you hadn't asked for a breakdown of charges and had been told something at viewing along the lines of 'its 100 pounds pcm DIY charge, plus hay/feed/bedding and a small charge for services'.

This is the kind of thing a YO would say at first, giving more details when asked. The charge for supplies and services *is* fairly small if its 200 pounds pcm.
A statement like that could lead someone inexperienced with horses to believe that the DIY was the biggest charge.
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To the original poster. I'm sorry this has happened to you and I appreciate even if £800 is reasonable for the 4 months worth of extras you've had, it's alot to find all at once.

If you have a breakdown you can work out where the costs where and how much was for services. If they are a large proportion of the bill then you may need to work out much you can do yourself to get costs down.
 
I'm on part livery. The price is fixed unless I specifically ask for extra services (such as lunging). I book farrier/vet myself and sort out worming myself, they will hold horses for vet etc though.

I'm shocked you hadn't thought to ask for a bill! or some indication of the cost after the first month :o
 
I'm on 5 day livery and if my bill came to £1200 for 4 months I would be really pleased. I pay more than that for just livery and services without hay feed and bedding.
When I was DIY I used to make up all haynets at the weekend for the week and make feed up and put them in bags so just had to pop them in a bucket daily. Little things like that can end up saving you lots of time over the week.
 
If I could find 5 day livery for 300 a month I would be biting someone's hand off :). Poor show with the four month bill but costs sound entirely reasonable IF they match the costs that were quoted when you moved there. If they do match then what's the problem OP? Or did I miss something when I skipped 6 pages of all of us saying the same thing? :)
 
The Xmas Furry said:
Happy to help :D
Tips:
Make up all day & night nets at weekend (even if just tipping out the hay, easier to gauge correct amount).
Never cross the yard empty handed except on return from turnout & then only stop to pick up barrow....
Have winter turnout fields right by yard so the commute is very close.
Sometimes make up feeds into tubs/pots at weekend to tip out into buckets. (I dont often do this at present as little is being fed, but helps if using several feeds)
Its my yard, so I dont do a proper sweep up till the 1st day I have in daylight ;) (I just scrape up anything in passing in between;) )
Train equines to walk out quietly to turnout when their door is opened, even if I have tipped more hay out in field. (works with TF most of the time, unless I've left another door open to somewhere more exciting :D)

Oh - and keep moving briskly :D
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Deep litter in the week, proper muck out/sweep up at the weekend. I can muck out, wet the hay, fill haynet, do waters and feed in 20mins. It's amazing how much time is saved having field next to yard so opening the gate and leaving pones to wander in/out of their own accord while I get on with the jobs!!
 
sadly I think OP if you were expecting to pay and budgeted only £3 per day to cover services and feed/hay/bedding I think you might even struggle even on DIY as it would probably cost at least that for a big horse stabled overnight.

Bedding is about £8 a bale and you would need at least one per week.
Hay at least £3 per bale (you would be v lucky to get it that cheap most places it is £4-5 a bale) for a big horse at least 2 per week

= £14 a week without hard feed or any service costs = £2 per day over 7 days this is with being lucky to be able to source everything really cheaply, and having a horse that is out for most of the day and not using much bedding and not needing any hard feed.

Perhaps when you did your budgeting you forgot to add in any costs for the labour of mucking out turn out etc.

I presume your sharer is not doing any mucking out/TO/CI on their days? as if you have underestimated the costs of part livery then your sharer may not be paying enough to cover the costs on their share days so you might need to speak to them about either paying more or perhaps do some jobs on their days so you don't need to pay for the mucking out.
 
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Just wanted to add that I'm an A level teacher so I know the amount of work involved, if you can't manage a horse on DIY now, you won't with a full time job. It is good to have a break from the studies on a regular basis, the brain just can't focus on work constantly so break it up with mucking out etc.
 
I know nothing of part livery costs, but on my yard it costs £200 a month for assisted livery with daily turn out, hay and straw, field and stable. You buy your own feed and if you want mucking out Monday to Friday im guessing your bill would easily go over the £300 mark.

I however am on grass livery as my budget doesn't stretch and it suits me better. I work a 9 hour day (Monday to Friday) and I am doing a degree from home (works about 30 hours a week) So I am very time limited. Add to this the yard is about an hour from work, it means getting up at 5 most mornings, but it is manageable if you are really organised.

I think you should sit down and write out what you think you should pay and then write the actual cost next to it.

Ask yourself these questions:

Does your horse need to be stabled? If not you will save a fortune. My livery bill is less than £100 per month for grass livery, hay and feed as well as the YO putting hay and a premade feed in the field for me once a day and checking him. A horse that lives out is also far more flexible than a stabled one when you are busy.

What is your horse eating, and does it need all of the feed? When I first had my own horse I fed him far too much and spent much more than I needed too! My pony gets fast fibre and non molasses chaff which works out about £2 a week.

You can keep a horse cheaply, even if people on here think you cant!

Please PM me if you want too. I can imagine how shocked you must be. xx
 
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I pay 175 per month which includes adlib hay, and daily am turn out, I do everything else.

Four months at this price is £700 but if you were to add mucking out etc at five pounds a day on week days ...for four months you would be looking at an additional £400 (approx) so I would already be looking at £1100 so the bill is not that shocking in my opinion, perhaps it is just your lack if experience in these things op, and as you say it may be better to move closer and do DIY.
 
Ok so for a total of four months my bill seems reasonable to most of you but my points were that a) its a lot to be faced with all at once, especially as my first bill and YO wouldn't tell me a rough estimate.. Hence my shock!
b) I'm guessing most of you on part livery are at lovely yards, with good facilities.. My yard has very poor facilities so I think they are charging more than they're worth. Also, there is a very posh yard very nearby, with amazing facilities but of course was too expensive for me. But, when looking at their website I noticed my yard are charging exactly the same as them for extras. So, ultimately I could be on a far nicer yard for the same price! I chose my yard because we thought it was the cheapest option!
I have a thoroughbred and although I would prefer him to live out, YO has said he has to be stabled at night until spring to avoid him dropping weight.. I don't really have any say in the matter!
 
timiton said:
Ok so for a total of four months my bill seems reasonable to most of you but my points were that a) its a lot to be faced with all at once, especially as my first bill and YO wouldn't tell me a rough estimate.. Hence my shock!
b) I'm guessing most of you on part livery are at lovely yards, with good facilities.. My yard has very poor facilities so I think they are charging more than they're worth. Also, there is a very posh yard very nearby, with amazing facilities but of course was too expensive for me. But, when looking at their website I noticed my yard are charging exactly the same as them for extras. So, ultimately I could be on a far nicer yard for the same price! I chose my yard because we thought it was the cheapest option!
I have a thoroughbred and although I would prefer him to live out, YO has said he has to be stabled at night until spring to avoid him dropping weight.. I don't really have any say in the matter!
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To be fair I think everyone agrees it's a big shock if you're not expecting it,
and it is bang out of order that YO would not give you any indication of costs and spring this on you as a surprise,
however what people are saying, quite rightfully, is that this is how much it costs to keep a horse on part livery. The yard I used to be at charged similar and we didn't have any facilities at all - no school, no lights (hear torch for me!), nothing! I moved to grass livery as suited me better and it does work out much cheaper + was able to move to DIY as not needing to go up twice a day any more. They offer part livery (bring in, check, rugs, hard feed, hay field) for £2.50/day which it useful for days where I can't make it. Perhaps a more flexible yard would suit you?
Plenty of TBs live out, though this may not be the time of year to start!
 
When you say the nicer yard charges the same for extras, it depends what they are. Nicer facilities would usually be reflected in the basic livery fee. Stuff like haylage, bedding, turning out, mucking out, services etc will cost the yo the same to provide whether the yard is top class or a crumbling heap.
 
timiton said:
Ok so for a total of four months my bill seems reasonable to most of you but my points were that a) its a lot to be faced with all at once, especially as my first bill and YO wouldn't tell me a rough estimate.. Hence my shock!
b) I'm guessing most of you on part livery are at lovely yards, with good facilities.. My yard has very poor facilities so I think they are charging more than they're worth. Also, there is a very posh yard very nearby, with amazing facilities but of course was too expensive for me. But, when looking at their website I noticed my yard are charging exactly the same as them for extras. So, ultimately I could be on a far nicer yard for the same price! I chose my yard because we thought it was the cheapest option!
I have a thoroughbred and although I would prefer him to live out, YO has said he has to be stabled at night until spring to avoid him dropping weight.. I don't really have any say in the matter!
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It doesn't matter what yard you are at... Extras are extras... Turning out a horse takes the same amount of time and effort, as does holding a horse for the farrier or vet.

I would hope that although I agree its a lot to face in one go, you have put back livery of £100 x 4 months which you knew was coming, and extra money for the extras that you did expect.

With regards to the turn out, perhaps yo is trying to guide you, or perhaps she doesn't do winter 24/7 turnout.

I'm not on part livery, I pay a hell of a decent amount though, take away what I pay for turning out and hay and I'd still be starting with about £100 for stables and grazing per month.. We have a sand school, with lights, jumps and a few Xcode jumps in one paddock... Decent hacking and a lockable trailer for our tack... Super duper facilities aren't the be all and end all... Is your horse happy there? If it is, perhaps you and your parents and yo should all have a round table chat and agree on terms so this doesn't happen again and there is better two way communication, perhaps yo hasn't communicated well with you, but perhaps you haven't been very clear with yo either. Keeping horses is a minefield perhaps swallow this bitter pill and take steps to ensure you are more informed and more in control of what happens in the future. I would absolutely not be settling for someone else making feed and supplement choices without me, but if my yo came up to me and suggested it and discussed why... I'd listen and possibly agree. You need to take control of what is happening to your horse, but also understand that perhaps the reason this has happened is because you have let it happen by not being clear on what level of care you need from yo.
 
timiton said:
Ok so for a total of four months my bill seems reasonable to most of you but my points were that a) its a lot to be faced with all at once, especially as my first bill and YO wouldn't tell me a rough estimate.. Hence my shock!
b) I'm guessing most of you on part livery are at lovely yards, with good facilities.. My yard has very poor facilities so I think they are charging more than they're worth. Also, there is a very posh yard very nearby, with amazing facilities but of course was too expensive for me. But, when looking at their website I noticed my yard are charging exactly the same as them for extras. So, ultimately I could be on a far nicer yard for the same price! I chose my yard because we thought it was the cheapest option!
I have a thoroughbred and although I would prefer him to live out, YO has said he has to be stabled at night until spring to avoid him dropping weight.. I don't really have any say in the matter!
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I assume the extras are forage, feed, bedding and labour, right? No wonder they charge the same for them as the ''posher'' yard... at the end of the day, facilities and quality of stabling have no bearing on price of haylage, feed and how much per hour you get paid to shift manure :o
 
I think you have been naive, unfortunately the YO not billing till now has allowed you to live with no idea how much your horse is costing you. Moral of the story, always work out costs before even considering getting the horse.

Now its time to pay up what you owe, research yards carefully and price up absolutely everything, taking into account what free time you have.
 
Wether you have been over charged or not( to be honest I think its a fairly good deal] the YO has got you in to this situation by not either getting you to pay in advance and then not billing on a regular basis. How any one can run a successful business like this beats me.
I would try and negotiate a bit and see if you can pay it off by overpaying on a weekly or monthly basis, so you are not paying it off all in one go but you are paying it. off.
I would also give her written instructions about the vetinary treatment, if she has a yard contract make sure you have read it properly, we all tend to skim read.
If you go DIY you are going to have to buy hay, if its a TB 3-4 bales a week and if its stabled 1-2 bales of shaving a week.
If I was you and there is some descent grass livery, I would invest in some good rugs, turn it out and give a descent feed once a day.
Do not feel to badly there are loads of people who come unstuck its just not everyone is so open about it. I can remember owning my first horse at 21, I had ridden for years but never had one of my own. I could not understand why it was loosing weight and had the vet out, nothing wrong with it. Basically it just needed more food as the fields were I was at livery were over grazed but I had never come across this before.
Facilities are great if you have time to use them realistically if you haven't got a lot of time to muck out , make up haynets have you really got time to use them.
 
Timiton - first ask the yard owner to itemise all charges - dates, amounts and cost. Check that vet, dentist actually attended. Maybe take a parent along with you if you feel that you may be intimidated.

Budgeting to manage your horse time and costs.

First move him to the place where you can go DIY.

Stable - Deep litter and I mean properly - clean floor, cover with layer of lime, then either sawdust/shavings or straw, make bed very deep and pack down by whacking with the pitch fork. ONLY take out droppings - do not disturb any of the bed - do not take wet out at weekend. This is the most cost effective in time and money. Will take no more than 15 mins each morning to pick up dung, change water, put up haynet. 5 extra mins to turn out/feed. If grazing alone feed him in his paddock. Mine used to be fed & turned out when the others were to prevent upsetting other horses

I used to work in London - my train left at 7:15 - I was at the yard by 6am, home by 6:30 - and I cycled - total time at yard 15 mins, water changed, box skipped out, clean straw added to deep litter. Home, Have shower, breakfast and off to catch train to work. Home by 6:45, change and off to the yard, horse brought in with others earlier - and fed. Brush horse quickly, important areas - if school free work horse if not, groom more thoroughly, make up feeds and haynets ready for next day. Did that for many years. You need to get very organised so that you are not rushing a round looking for stuff in the morning.
 
Regardless of the prices - which, while they may sound reasonable to us, to you they seem too much for what you get / what you could get locally - it doesn't excuse the way you're being treated. Being told what you should do with your horse is not part of the package ;) While I might expect people to intervene if you were seriously messing up - or with another young person who seemed lost and wanting that help - that's obviously not where you stand right now. You've made it clear you don't want that input from them, so I'm sure the signs are there for them to get a clue, and they're just not paying attention :)

Personally I'd pay up and move on out. The only thing that sounded bad about the alternative was not having many people to hack out with - believe me, if your horse will cope alone, hacking out by yourself is lovely :) One of the few times you are totally by yourself, with your horse doing something you love. Yes, it's nice to have friends to go out with - but it's also fantastic to just get up and go.

If you don't think you're able to move out, I'd get your parents involved if you can. To us you sound like a clued-up and intelligent person who doesn't need their parents to fight their battles - but from your description, it sounds like your yard people are the type who think anyone under 30 needs babysitting :( So if you have to stay there, try to swallow your pride and get your parents (who they will listen to) to set some ground rules. They sound like the sort of people who will pay attention to 'adults' but not to you - sorry :(

Do hope you find a good answer, it sounds awfully frustrating.
 
In my area the basic DIY price for good faculties us £175 per month not £100. The cost for hay, feed, bedding and services are pretty much the same irrespective of services. My yard would charge £50 a week for 5 day mucking out. Hay, feed and bedding would be over £100 a month. So my yard would be over £300 in extras plus £175 which is £475 a month which is £1,900 for 4 months.
 
Have you got any experienced horse friends on DIY? All the advice from a forum is very well, but I suspect you'd benefit from someone being able to advise and show you if you go DIY.
As the others said, that bill doesn't sound bad at all. Look closely at the real cost of DIY before you move.
If you go DIY, surely you'd hopefully be turning your horse out in the mornings? You could muck out and bring in after school. Having said that, I do wonder if you're going to manage being DIY to be honest. It's going to get tricky if your dad is going to be sitting in the car waiting for you all the time.
 
I think anytime you are paying for daily services and mucking out of a stabled horse, rather than doing it yourself it will be expensive.

I have a grass livery horse I do myself who is 17hh but costs about £120 a month to keep. My other horse is on 7 day part livery at a yard with fab facilities and costs a huge amount more.

Think you have to select livery to suit you, and the budget you can afford.
 
timiton said:
Rent for the stable and grazing is £100 per month - Diy price. Then extras (minus farrier and jabs) have totaled to over £800. Add it all up and picture my reaction!
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So for the four months you have paid £1200? Three hundred a month total for diy livery including costs would be about right (hay, bedding, feed, wormer, farrier etc). You are getting an amazingly good deal!
 
Sorry if this has already been said but not read whole thread but check with the place you are looking to move him to about costs first. For instance, our yard provides ad lib haylage (and my boy eats a LOT more than yours) so if you have a place in mind see what, if anything is included. also rubber matting can save a lot as my boy used to be on concrete floor so even if in during the day he had a big bed down. Now he has matting (provided by the yard) and if he is in during the day I only put a little shavings down to soak up any wet so this is a great saving.

other than that, defo check with the vet when they came and what they did. Even on full livery if anything extra is needed then it should be checked with the Owner first.

other than that, from what you say, it sounds like they are taking the p a bit, especially with you being a new owner and not knowing entirely what you are doing with your horse yet. good luck and keep us posted.
 
mystiandsunny said:
So for the four months you have paid £1200? Three hundred a month total for diy livery including costs would be about right (hay, bedding, feed, wormer, farrier etc). You are getting an amazingly good deal!
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she did say MINUS farrier and jabs so its a bit more than £300 for everything.
 
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