Livery bill shock (long rant alert)

No turnout is hard for you and your horse.

Standing in will mean using a lot more bedding and food.

These are your estimates for DIY in the future?

Feed seems reasonable. You can calculate how many scoops you feed and how many scoops in a bag and calculate this accurately. A round scoop of nuts is about 1.2kg, a round scoop of chaff is about 400gms.

Hay – could be low if need to buy small bales. If buying big bales and sharing, it is possibly about right / a bit low. Depends on how much turnout and quality of grass in field.

Bedding is high. I guess if your horse isn’t getting any turnout then with shaving £7-8 pound a bale, you could be getting through 2-3 a week.

DIY, with the option of buying a bit of adhoc help, with supportive parents could work well.

To cost DIY you need to know what the bedding and hay arrangements are. If you can use straw will be cheapest, and if can share large hay / haylage will be much cheaper. If horses are turned out all day nearly every day will use less hay and bedding.

You might be able to buddy up can swop turnouts for bring ins with other liveries etc and save costs.
 
I would definitely query why others are getting turn out when yours isn't - doesn't seem fair.

I would expect turnout to either be limited for everyone or unlimited for everyone.
 
Wagtail said:
I would say more like feed £30 (one feed a day or £60 for two)
Bedding £60 depending on which you use.
Hay or haylage £80
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I don't spend anyway near that on feed and that's including linseed under the feed rather than supplements

Per Month
Speedibeet £5
Copra £8
Linseed £6
He got two feeds a day when he was in. Now he's out he only gets one so a bit less than that.

However I am very generous with hay and if your horse came to you a bit poor I would be budgeting for a good all round supplement.
 
criso said:
I don't spend anyway near that on feed and that's including linseed under the feed rather than supplements

Per Month
Speedibeet £5
Copra £8
Linseed £6
He got two feeds a day when he was in. Now he's out he only gets one so a bit less than that.

However I am very generous with hay and if your horse came to you a bit poor I would be budgeting for a good all round supplement.
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I feed Pure Feeds to all the liveries and my own. Each bag is 15 kg and costs around £12. I give on average a stubbs scoop each which is 1 kg. So yes, I think I may have over estimated the cost. Maybe I should be feeding something more economical, but I really like this brand of feed and the horses all do so well on it.
 
Thanks for all the comments on costing! Will do a bit more research.
I will be using less bedding if he is out 12 hours a day but he's very messy! I will probably use straw if I go DIY then use hay instead of haylage. He gets 2 feeds a day (again, YO insisted) so will cut back to one large one if he's out more.
Going to speak to parents tonight. Not hugely confident it will go well but as someone has said, its my money, time and future this revolves around so after weighing up pros and cons, DIY looks like a far better option.
Also, I don't think I was clear but this other yard isn't a proper livery yard. It's a private house with 3 good sized paddocks, 4 stables, a large school and only one pony has sole use. There is a larger yard right opposite this one but the YO is a witch, the field is poorly managed and its just a lot scruffier.
 
I have some friends who are big fans of Pure feeds, it comes already supplemented so I will be spending what I save in feed on supplements.

On most livery yards owners would be buying in multivits or balancers to add so makes what you are offering an even better deal.

I just prefer to feed straights and supplement separately for lots of reasons, just personal choice.
 
criso said:
I have some friends who are big fans of Pure feeds, it comes already supplemented so I will be spending what I save in feed on supplements.

On most livery yards owners would be buying in multivits or balancers to add so makes what you are offering an even better deal.

I just prefer to feed straights and supplement separately for lots of reasons, just personal choice.
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Yes, I agree. If I was just feeding my own I would probably do that. But most of my liveries don't bother buying supplements and so feeding Pure feeds ensures that they get a balanced diet, and it's really easy!
 
timiton said:
Thanks for all the comments on costing! Will do a bit more research.
I will be using less bedding if he is out 12 hours a day but he's very messy! I will probably use straw if I go DIY then use hay instead of haylage. He gets 2 feeds a day (again, YO insisted) so will cut back to one large one if he's out more.
.
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He sounds like my tb, straw is your cheapest option but allow for half a bale a day even if he is out all day.

Hay will be cheaper but is less fattening so you will need more. Remember that even if he is out all day, there will not be alot of goodness in the grass at this time of year. Mine gets two xlarge haynets a night.

Don't cut back to one large feed, stick to two feeds a day, even if you feed less split it between two. Little and often is best. Speedibeet (or other unmolassed beet) is a good option, it's good value for money, low sugar, fibre based but a reasonable amount of calories.
 
Yes straw and hay are much cheaper than shavings and haylage. However you would need to probably keep the 2 feeds a day if cutting down to hay as you will lose quite a lot of goodness. And also 2 feeds are always better than 1 large one as the horse gets more out of it.
 
timiton said:
Thanks for all the comments on costing! Will do a bit more research.
I will be using less bedding if he is out 12 hours a day but he's very messy! I will probably use straw if I go DIY then use hay instead of haylage. He gets 2 feeds a day (again, YO insisted) so will cut back to one large one if he's out more.
Going to speak to parents tonight. Not hugely confident it will go well but as someone has said, its my money, time and future this revolves around so after weighing up pros and cons, DIY looks like a far better option.
Also, I don't think I was clear but this other yard isn't a proper livery yard. It's a private house with 3 good sized paddocks, 4 stables, a large school and only one pony has sole use. There is a larger yard right opposite this one but the YO is a witch, the field is poorly managed and its just a lot scruffier.
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Why hay not haylage out of curiosity?

I find a mix best, haylage for putting on the weight, hay for keeping it from going straight through (if not a fizzy horse). For one horse I would do small bales. We use large for a number of horses and without fail good quality haylage is cheaper than good quality hay. Finding little bales is a pita though. Worth asking what they do at next yard, whether to buy together if out in field, or buy separately - get prices up front!

Two feeds if possible is better than one large so you don't fill the stomach (I found a couple of horses on last yard losing weight because they were overfeeding hard feed and so not eating as much forage), but not the end of the world if stabled and a decent amount of forage continuously.

The private yard sounds good. I found shavings cheaper than straw if skipping out a clean horse, straw cheaper on a very messy horse.
What will they be like for help? Worth making sure you have backup if you can't do a day, with prices up front. Or possibly muck out theirs on weekends for yours being done on a couple of mid week etc. Or a check if turned out etc.

Also get a contract :) Then you both know where you stand!
 
and also as your Dad runs you about... make sure you have worked out how you are going to get your feed, bedding and forage. Doubt he will be happy to have to go and collect it and I can vouch for the fact that hay is almost impossible to get rid of. When I was on DIY, every other saturday would see me making the round trip to stock up on all the above and I reckoned it would take me nearly all saturday morning to stock up and sort out my horse. I had my boy on semi deep litter shavings so a thorough removal of droppings all week (with gloves in a wash basket!) then once a week, take out the wet and take down one wall. I would use 1 bale of shavings per week with the need to put in an extra once a month. I started off with 12 bales of shavings though so had a very very decent bed.
 
Luci07 said:
and also as your Dad runs you about... make sure you have worked out how you are going to get your feed, bedding and forage. Doubt he will be happy to have to go and collect it and I can vouch for the fact that hay is almost impossible to get rid of. When I was on DIY, every other saturday would see me making the round trip to stock up on all the above and I reckoned it would take me nearly all saturday morning to stock up and sort out my horse. I had my boy on semi deep litter shavings so a thorough removal of droppings all week (with gloves in a wash basket!) then once a week, take out the wet and take down one wall. I would use 1 bale of shavings per week with the need to put in an extra once a month. I started off with 12 bales of shavings though so had a very very decent bed.
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Some useful points here. You need to check how much storage you will be allocated too. If you don't have enough covered storage, you may have to store outside under tarpaulin. In which case, it is safer to get something that is at least semi waterproof such as wood pellet bedding and haylage instead of hay. You may also have to buy in bulk if you want things delivered.
 
Luci07 said:
and also as your Dad runs you about... make sure you have worked out how you are going to get your feed, bedding and forage. Doubt he will be happy to have to go and collect it and I can vouch for the fact that hay is almost impossible to get rid of. .
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There was one place I used to go to that used to give you option of plastic wrapped hay (about 50p more per bale) as alot of people used to come in very clean looking cars.
 
I work similar hours to you and do DIY, though my horse only stays in 3-4 nights a week. If you are in college do you get free periods when you can see the horse during the day? My DIY is £30 a week and I budget for £200 a month all in (shoes, worming, stable etc). I bought wood pellet bedding 750kg upfront for £200 but that will do me all winter and probably more. How much did you budget for? It is do-able being on a right budget but horses really are a labour of love!! X
 
Can someone please pm me with their email so I can send them a copy of the spreadsheet I've done of costs? Preferably someone who has a partly stabled horse on DIY and won't bite my head off if I'm being naïve! :)
 
Ooh I wouldn't be at all happy!!!! If my horse needed the vet I would want to know!!! I'd be fuming! I would phone and check they have been and ur not being ripped off!
 
TBH if you are budgeting for DIY at £250 per month but part is only costing you £300 a month and you are on your own in that you have no close friends or family who have knowledge of horses who could help you if you or your horse gets sick you and your horse might be better off on part livery. Unless you have close friends or family with experience of looking after a horse that live near by then you really need to be on a yard which provides some services and support.

What happens if your horse needs the vet whilst you are at college? It is not like you can just book the day of college to be there like you might be able to do at a workplace and I am sure if your parents are paying for a private education then then are would not be happy if you skipped college to be with your horse.

If you don't drive or have your own car unless your yard is within very close distance to your house so you can walk or cycle then there could be extra costs related to public transport or your dad having to drive you there twice a day every day could actually push up your costs. If you rely on your parents to get you to the yard what happens if they get sick, or delayed at work? What happens if your parents want to go on holiday? I think any option that is going to rely on the goodwill of your parents doing more and you spending more time down at yard and getting less rest/sleep whilst they are paying a lot for your education may not go down well especially as it impacts on your education.

I think a possible solution might be a yard where you could be on part livery during term time and then DIY during the school holidays.

I don't know if there is a pony club locally to you but they might know of yards or people perhaps who could help you.
 
If you were aware of the costs how it the bill you got so wrong?
Have you been charged the wrong
amount?

If the cost is too much change to diy.
Diy is not impossible.
I am at the yard at 5am. I fit it all in.

Or do a deal with another livery and help each other out.
 
This is bizarre. Got very out of control
Obviously it's your first horse and your yo has just over faced you
Ask for bills beginning of every month. That's what I do for my liveries.

You can't expect her to rent her own field and keep a TB out either? She has no way of managing a field and I take it she is only young and probably in horses for the social side too?

My liveries pay far more than you have! Horses are expensive. Sad but true.
But I agree, DIY will help cut costs and maybe getting a part time job? :)
You can easily work around your studies too. When I was younger I had four ponies and full time education (and a very helpful mum) and we were tired but all horses were on DIY and we managed!

I hope u manage to find a solution that works out for you! :)
 
Have not read every post but 2 things....

Concentrate on your a levels for now and don't go DIY, it is really important to do well in your exams given the reality of job situations for students and graduates now.

Someone make the bill work to do this - can horey move to grass livery and only have front shoes? Mine compete happily with only fronts on.
 
SO1 said:
If you don't drive or have your own car unless your yard is within very close distance to your house so you can walk or cycle then there could be extra costs related to public transport or your dad having to drive you there twice a day every day could actually push up your costs. If you rely on your parents to get you to the yard what happens if they get sick, or delayed at work? What happens if your parents want to go on holiday? I think any option that is going to rely on the goodwill of your parents doing more and you spending more time down at yard and getting less rest/sleep whilst they are paying a lot for your education may not go down well especially as it impacts on your education.
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My current yard is a good ten minute drive away so I have to rely on my parents taking me to and from there twice a day on weekends. This other yard is only a 2 minute walk away from my house so would be a big advantage for my parents.
Haven't mentioned it before but my parents are divorced. They live half an hour from each other, the yard is roughly in the middle. I spend most of my time with my Mum, then when I'm with my Dad he could drop me off/pick up to tie it in with my sister going to school (on saturdays).
Your point about my education is the problem. But I am certain I have time both in the mornings and evenings to see to him. I finish school in June (then will have a gap year - working full time, no travelling) so will only be until then.
 
travelmad said:
Have not read every post but 2 things....

Concentrate on your a levels for now and don't go DIY, it is really important to do well in your exams given the reality of job situations for students and graduates now.

Someone make the bill work to do this - can horey move to grass livery and only have front shoes? Mine compete happily with only fronts on.
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Stupid iPad spelling autocorrect! Sorry!!!
 
Quick update.. Mentioned to my dad how stressed this bill and whole situation has made me, suggested how it would be much easier to move my horse to the village and before I could explain the reasons I got 'Absolutely no way. A-levels come first'. But he continued to say he'll pay for the livery until I get a job and ensured me that my horse isn't going anywhere. I don't know whether to be really happy that my Dad has relieved my money worry or be upset that I have to stay at this horrible yard until June. Either way, I have my horse so I guess that's all that really matters! Thanks for everyone's advice, opinions and sympathy.. I will be moving to a DIY yard as soon as I finish exams! I'll just lump it until then! :)
 
timiton said:
Quick update.. Mentioned to my dad how stressed this bill and whole situation has made me, suggested how it would be much easier to move my horse to the village and before I could explain the reasons I got 'Absolutely no way. A-levels come first'. But he continued to say he'll pay for the livery until I get a job and ensured me that my horse isn't going anywhere. I don't know whether to be really happy that my Dad has relieved my money worry or be upset that I have to stay at this horrible yard until June. Either way, I have my horse so I guess that's all that really matters! Thanks for everyone's advice, opinions and sympathy.. I will be moving to a DIY yard as soon as I finish exams! I'll just lump it until then! :)
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Hope you gave your lovely dad a big hug and told him how awesome he is.

As far as the people at the yard go - mostly people like to help and be friendly, from experience teenagers are 'aliens from outer space' so try to be friendly, smile and be approachable, you may find that you will make friends with many of them - some of my dearest long term friends are those that I made at the first livery yard I was on. It takes time to settle in and be accepted and requires both sides to make an effort.

Thank people for advice - you don't have to like what they say or even take it on board but you will win a freind if you say thank you.

As for the YO - she must give you an invoice on time - maybe you can get your dad on to that.
 
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