Livery prices WWYD

[Ninarodders]

so before I start let me say I know YO/YM need to make money and I do get that, please read all of what I've got to say before thinking anything like that.

at the beginning of June my horse was retired from the school (poss will be retired altogether) and as he was on a working livery this had now ended and I became diy. I moved around 30 mins from him a few months ago but the working livery was too good to move him so I left him where he was. Now he's too far away but nowhere local has space (on every waiting list around). So I only go once a day. When he was out they would charge £2.50 to bring in or t/o (that's fine obs).

But he then went on box rest and towards the beginning of July he needed to be walked twice a day for 10 mins as his sheath swelled up. I asked them if they could walk him once a day and they said they try but can't when they are busy. So ok fair enough I thought, if they are doing me a favour I can't expect them to do it every day. But then I was talking to one of the instructors and she said that she just t/o in the school. I wasn't best pleased as he is on box rest! But I let it drop they are doing me a favour. The vet came out the next day and no deffo don't do that. As he could hurt himself and do more damage but also if he's not walking around its not helping his sheath.

So I now had to walk him for 15 mins twice s day not t/o in the school. So I wrote this down in their diary so the yard would know.

And now I've had my bill in and they charged me for it. For 10 mins they've charged £2.50 and for 15 mins they've charged £3.00. I'm not too happy because I thought they were doing me a favour and now I realise they were charging.

I'm not upset what they have charged I'm upset they didn't tell me from the start. And tbh I'm reluctant to pay £2.50 for them to t/o in the school when that's not what I asked for and potentionally could have prolonged his treatment or cost me more in vet bills.

I mean I will pay it but would you say anything? It's not the first time they've upd my prices without telling till I get my bill. In fact they have done it 3 times in the past. And only to me. I fell like they think they can just charge me what they like and I'll pay.

Please don't attack me about YO struggling cuz I know just wish they had of said yes we can do it but there will be a charge of this much but they didn't.

And also days where he is on full livery am I expected to pay the extra fee on top of that? I would have assumed it was included like t/o and bring ins.

 

[ihatework]

I think you were naive to think they would do it as a favour, and I think £3 for 15 mins hand walking is very good value.
I think by not asking them yourself what the charges were you cannot be surprised they are not free.
Id pay and not say anything.

Yes Id expect to pay it for days on full livery. He might not have TO/BI but there will be additional skipping out.

In your shoes Id ask for a services price list and ask them t inform you if there are any changes to that.

 

[be positive]

I think as you know they charge for turning out or bringing in then to think they would walk him as a favour was unrealistic, if turning out was already included and walking was instead then I would not have expected to be charged but in this case I think you misread the situation, I think the favour was that they were going to walk him, not that it would be free of charge.

On your full livery days then much the same, it counts as a short exercise period but that may be open to discussion with the yard owner.

 

[milliepops]

I think you were naive to think they would do it as a favour, and I think £3 for 15 mins hand walking is very good value.
I think by not asking them yourself what the charges were you cannot be surprised they are not free.
Id pay and not say anything.

Yes Id expect to pay it for days on full livery. He might not have TO/BI but there will be additional skipping out.

In your shoes Id ask for a services price list and ask them t inform you if there are any changes to that.

^^ this. Sorry you feel miffed, OP, but I don't think you've got a leg to stand on I'm afraid

 

[Tyssandi]

so before I start let me say I know YO/YM need to make money and I do get that, please read all of what I've got to say before thinking anything like that.

at the beginning of June my horse was retired from the school (poss will be retired altogether) and as he was on a working livery this had now ended and I became diy. I moved around 30 mins from him a few months ago but the working livery was too good to move him so I left him where he was. Now he's too far away but nowhere local has space (on every waiting list around). So I only go once a day. When he was out they would charge £2.50 to bring in or t/o (that's fine obs).

But he then went on box rest and towards the beginning of July he needed to be walked twice a day for 10 mins as his sheath swelled up. I asked them if they could walk him once a day and they said they try but can't when they are busy. So ok fair enough I thought, if they are doing me a favour I can't expect them to do it every day. But then I was talking to one of the instructors and she said that she just t/o in the school. I wasn't best pleased as he is on box rest! But I let it drop they are doing me a favour. The vet came out the next day and no deffo don't do that. As he could hurt himself and do more damage but also if he's not walking around its not helping his sheath.

So I now had to walk him for 15 mins twice s day not t/o in the school. So I wrote this down in their diary so the yard would know.

And now I've had my bill in and they charged me for it. For 10 mins they've charged £2.50 and for 15 mins they've charged £3.00. I'm not too happy because I thought they were doing me a favour and now I realise they were charging.

I'm not upset what they have charged I'm upset they didn't tell me from the start. And tbh I'm reluctant to pay £2.50 for them to t/o in the school when that's not what I asked for and potentionally could have prolonged his treatment or cost me more in vet bills.

I mean I will pay it but would you say anything? It's not the first time they've upd my prices without telling till I get my bill. In fact they have done it 3 times in the past. And only to me. I fell like they think they can just charge me what they like and I'll pay.

Please don't attack me about YO struggling cuz I know just wish they had of said yes we can do it but there will be a charge of this much but they didn't.

And also days where he is on full livery am I expected to pay the extra fee on top of that? I would have assumed it was included like t/o and bring ins.

Sorry but IMO the £ 2.50 is cheaper than you driving up every day twice and then walking him. Def don't turn him out in the school if the vet says no.

My horse was on box rest with sheath injury and it was strict at the beginning then now when he tweaks it strict no turnout . Also I would give 3 months off after as my vet said bring back to work in hand building up etc, well I did that and it went again 4 times in 2 1/2 years and during that time he only got as far as walk under saddle before it went. Now he is having 1 year off before I start leading him out in hand, and wont get on him till I feel he can cope ( If ever ).

I think you have to accept the yard goes to a time and routine and if they have to incorporate walking your horse into yard working then you have to pay for this privilege. Only if a friend walks him in hand will you get it for free unless you can make an arrangement with another livery, that if she walks your horse in hand in the am then you will put her horse to bed to give her a night off.

 

[eggs]

I certainly would not expect my horse to be hand walked twice a day as a favour. I do understand your annoyance at finding out that he was being turned out in the school and would have a conversation as to whether that should have been charged.

For what it is worth I sent one of my horses to rehab livery after an operation as he had to have an ever increasing amount of hand walking and as I work full time I just wasn't able to do it. Five years ago this cost me £150 per week and he was there for six weeks.

 

[Ninarodders]

I will pay just I am a bit miffed that they do this all the time. And unless I say something then they will continue.

He's on box rest for severe damage to his suspenseries (sp?) on both back legs which the yard know and his sheath had swelled due to box rest. So surly they should have known not to t/o in the school? Again that's not the first time they've done something that affects him in a negative way. Each time I let it slide and don't say anything. I've even mentioned to my non horsey friends some of the stuff they've done (in the past) and they even said well surly that's not good for him. Guess I miffed about paying for something I didn't ask for. If I'm paying surly they surly should do what I've asked and not cheat at it.

It's actually now cheaper for me to put him on full livery which is what I shall be doing from on. Even though I don't want to as want to know what he is like so when the vet asks I know and don't have to ask.

 

[atropa]

I understand where you're coming from in that they should have made it clear up front that you would be charged for it, and it's not on that they turned out in school instead of walking at first, but I also wouldn't expect walking included in full livery and would pay extra for it.
Is it not possible for you to visit both ends of the day yourself? My horses are kept 25-30 minute drive from my house, I have one on boxrest and could put her on full livery but I prefer to get up a bit earlier and see her twice a day myself.

 

[Blurr]

I think when you're on livery, of whatever type, it's best to find out what IS included and then assume that everything else comes with an additional fee and when you ask for extra services not usually included, you have to ask how much they cost, because they will, quite rightly, put that charge on your invoice.

Does your horse still need in-walking? If he does and you put him on full livery, I would assume that in-hand walking will still be an extra and charged as such. Because full livery doesn't usually include in-hand walking.

With regard to the yard not complying with your wishes and attempting to charge for services they're not providing, you could challenge this, but you may come unstuck if asked for proof. Are you putting him on full livery at the yard he's currently at? Do you trust them enough to do so? I'm not sure I would given their past behaviour.

 

[Ninarodders]

Blurr no I can't trust them really. But I haven't got a choice now. He doesn't need walking but my diesel and the charge for either bring in or t/o is more expensive than their full livery charge. I've been going during the week but had him on livery at weekends. Without going into all my personal details his bills have gone up by £200 a month now I'm diy and I got made redundant from my part time job. So I'm down a lot of money a month and need to save every penny I can. I'm 12 weeks pregnant and finding it very hard to find an evening job that doesn't affect my pregnancy. So I really need to save what pennies I can wherever I can. Unfortunately it's either full livery till I can move him closer to home or I sell. I really don't want to sell specially during treatment as who would buy a horse that is essentially retired and needs around 2k more spent on him. (I'm really hoping the insurance will pay cuz if not I will need to win the lottery!) and I love him far too much to think of where he might go.

 

[Illusion100]

I have to say I wouldn't have have been under any illusions that in hand walking would be done for free and would have discussed the charges at the start when I first requested this.

No, they shouldn't have turned him out in the school but ultimately they were trying to do you a favour and you didn't specify otherwise.

These are lessons for you to learn from to prevent any similar types of misunderstanding in the future.

 

[Blurr]

You do seem to be a bit between a rock and a hard place at the moment, many of us have been there. The only thing you can do is keeping looking for somewhere closer that's more suited to his needs and your finances. And keep an eye on what your insurance will/won't pay for and when your year is up on it.

Could you mention your area (without giving yourself away) for suggestions on here or in the regional boards?

Congratulations on your pregnancy

 

[Ninarodders]

Thanks blurr. I did post on the regional boards but I haven't had any responses. I think I've been to all around anyway. Can't imagine there many more about as I've been to that many. Was also told by one yard that someone else was at hers the day before looking for 2 horses and they've had no joy!

 

[FestiveFuzz]

Haven't read any of the responses so apologies if I'm repeating what others have already said but I'm surprised you expected the yard to walk him free of charge when you're on DIY livery. I've had a similar conversation recently as my horse was on schooling livery when she damaged her tendon in the field, she's now on a minimum of 3 months box rest. We discussed whether it was worth moving her to part livery or full livery whilst she recovered and eventually settled on full livery as the added day charges for walking in hand and bandages would have cost more per month than I was paying on schooling livery. Also FWIW £2.50/£3 is extremely cheap for in-hand walking, at least where I live...my charges were double that.

 

[laura_nash]

If there is nothing local and you have decided to put him on full livery anyway, would it be worth checking for another yard (offering full livery) a similar distance away? If you don't trust them then this might be worth considering?

 

[PaddyMonty]

Just curious, how long was he on working livery?

 

[Ninarodders]

I have thought about full livery as there is one close to me (with space) but it's still far cheaper where he is. I haven't thought about looking at other yards whatever the distance for full livery though. Might be worth thinking about.

They had him on loan 11 years ago and 5 years ago I bought him and he went straight onto working livery. I was riding him at the time when they said that they might loose him as the owner was selling him. so I bought him as I loved him so much and a working livery seemed like a good way of buying my first horse.

 

[PaddyMonty]

So they've had the benefit of this horse for 11 years. This would put a different slant on things imho.
Which yard is he at? PM if prefer.

 

[be positive]

So they've had the benefit of this horse for 11 years. This would put a different slant on things imho.
Which yard is he at? PM if prefer.

That does rather, they used him until he was broken, from the sound of things permanently, and now are not being as helpful as they could, to put him loose in the school was very unfair, it could have done more harm, I would look for somewhere else to keep him it sounds as if they have lost interest now he is no longer bringing in so much cash each week, I think after 5 years of use the least they could do is try and help fix him and can now see why you thought they may do you a favour by walking him out.

 

[_OC_]

Why Oh why do yards not put up a tariff board telling their clients what is classed as extras.....then every body will be clear on what is payable for additional services.....it is not Rocket Science.....or maybe it is.......given this yard has had quite a nice little money earner out of the horse prior to the OP post!

 

[_OC_]

That does rather, they used him until he was broken, from the sound of things permanently, and now are not being as helpful as they could, to put him loose in the school was very unfair, it could have done more harm, I would look for somewhere else to keep him it sounds as if they have lost interest now he is no longer bringing in so much cash each week, I think after 5 years of use the least they could do is try and help fix him and can now see why you thought they may do you a favour by walking him out.

Yep agree totally.....Least they could do is give a little help for free after they have made lucrative ££££££'s out of him .....Greedy springs to mind!

 

[Ninarodders]

So those of you that now understand what I feel, would you say something? Or just pay the bill and expect nothing more of them and move on? (Eventually when I can of course)

 

[PaddyMonty]

Depends which yard it is. There are some YO in northampton I would discuss this with, others I would be wasting my time.

 

[be positive]

So those of you that now understand what I feel, would you say something? Or just pay the bill and expect nothing more of them and move on? (Eventually when I can of course)

I would pay up, expect nothing and when you do move on then quietly, without fuss, express your disappointment in how they discarded him as soon as he was no longer of use, keep the moral high ground by remaining professional about the whole scenario.
Sadly it is a sign of the times and also of how small the profit margins tend to be for the average RS, luckily for them they had you there to buy him when required, you allowed them to continue to use him the work certainly would have contributed to his injuries, if they now owned him it would probably be the end of the road for a good servant, find somewhere nice for both of you so you can enjoy him even if it is only in retirement.

 

[ester]

I would be very cross about them turning out in the school when I believe you specifically told them he had to be hand walked. That could have ended very badly and I'm not sure I would be happy paying them for those occasions, they can't charge for walking they didn't do.
Are you on facebook? usually quite good looking for yard options.

I didn't realise on your previous post that this horse had been at this yard, working for a long time and do think it puts a slightly different slant on how you and the horse are now being treated.

 

[Illusion100]

Yes, me too. I didn't realise the full circumstances and based my opinion on your initial post, sorry. It does seem unfair now you've explained further.

 

[Ninarodders]

Paddymonty I'm new to this forum and I can't work out how to pm you.

 

[Mongoose11]

Firstly, I wouldn't dream of using 15 mins per day as a 'favour' and yes, you should pay. Before you pay though you probably want to clarify how many times they are attempting to charge you for walking when it was actually turn out.

I don't think the particular circumstances of them owning him, using him and then you owning him make any difference, as you are now 'just' a DIY livery.

 

[honetpot]

I was on livery for a short period of time when my horse had a foot abscess. I had finished work an was doing it on the yard with the yard owner watching, I had got all the stuff ready out to do it, when she said 'I'll do it if you like?', as I had just finished nights I thought she was being kind,and yes she stuck it on the bill, and it was £5 and this was 20 yrs ago.
I would try and find a freelance groom/friend who you trust, or find a farmer with an empty yard/barn that they use for cows in winter and put him in there.

 

[Starzaan]

I think you were naive to think they would do it as a favour, and I think £3 for 15 mins hand walking is very good value.
I think by not asking them yourself what the charges were you cannot be surprised they are not free.
Id pay and not say anything.

Yes Id expect to pay it for days on full livery. He might not have TO/BI but there will be additional skipping out.

In your shoes Id ask for a services price list and ask them t inform you if there are any changes to that.

This exactly.

We work out our list of chores, exercising etc for the next day every evening. You would be amazed how much difference adding just one of the DIY's horses to this list makes.

I would never expect staff to do hand walking etc as a "favour". If any of our staff have to hand walk or ride or turn out a DIY horse it takes time away from the list of tasks we have assigned for that day. Absolutely fine, but may mean that someone ends up running over into their lunch or a job like ragworting gets left for the day. We are much busier than most yards so I appreciate that time is not so tight and run in such a military fashion everywhere, but I would be shocked if a client expected us to do their DIY horse for free.

We are happy to compromise though. So, for instance, a DIY client needed her brought in at lunch time for a few months last summer, and couldn't afford to pay us. So, in exchange she cleaned tack - absolutely perfect. Worked brilliantly all round.