Livery with no grazing.

Personally I think it's wrong you keep horses in any environment where they don't get time to be horses. That to means adequate space to run, opportunity to socialise with other horses and access to different grasses in their field.
Therefore I would certainly not entertain the idea of keeping my horse anywhere where there wasn't any option of 24/7 turnout at least during the summer months
 
Sorry not read the whole thread but what about thinking of alternative plans? How about using your venue for training, schooling days or mini competitions if your arena is up to it? Depends what else is in your area

Or if hacking brilliant, horsey short breaks?
 
IMO, there IS a place for livery with no turnout as others have said, but only for very specific reasons:

If a horse is injured and on box-rest.
If it's quarantined.
If the horse is simply passing through and needs a place for a day or two.
If a horse is (rarely) not happy being turned out at all, and can be fully exercised/occupied by its owner whilst stabled.

Other than that, then no.
 
Surely it's not going to be a competition yard with one (presumably 20x40?) school and no walker etc? - and not a huge amount of space to install such things to enable all the horses get properly exercised daily?
 
No, while horses can adapt, I don't feel it is fair to ask them to do so.
Competition/ mod/ racing yard horses that don't get turnout are generally highly exercised and mentally challenged but don't get to be horses, and can struggle when they do get turnout holidays.

IMO its not fair to the horse and shouldn't be offered, just in the same way pokey new build houses should nt be for humans!!
 
I would consider no grazing as in no grass (grass sensitive horse) but I would still expect unrestricted access to a turnout area of a decent size (whether done by running surfaced tracks around the place that feed into more open paddock areas (preferred) or just by having a decent sized surfaced area (maybe hardcore base with gravel or road planings or woodchip, wouldn't like just bare concrete though cos of slip risk and it being quite a hard surface for them to be running about on). I would expect the area poo picking on a daily basis (preferably by the owner so it definitely gets done) and for provision of ad-lib hay or haylage to be included in the livery. I guess the point of my reply is that someone whose horse is perhaps prone to laminitis may actually see no actual grazing as a positive thing but they are still going to expect turnout in some form to replace that. To be blunt though i don't think the amount of space you're currently proposing would work for 15 horses. I would halve that number and increase your price / maybe make some luxuries chargeable if you need to make X amount per month to make it worthwhile.

If I could find a yard that offered the above in my area then I'd move tomorrow as it would save me a lot of headaches!
 
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I think there could well be a market for no grazing for laminitis, etc, but you would still need more turnout than you're able to offer.

You don't seem to have the facilities / space to setup as the kind of high quality yard that gets away with no turnout.

You'd need all liveries to sign up to full livery - expecting to get a yard full of reliable DIY owners who will be able to put the hours in to managing that kind of care approrpiately would be very difficult.

Your forage bill will be enormous and you'll need to pass that cost on.

If you can't source grazing I don't think it's viable. Certainly I'd never move to a yard without at least some grazing and at least full day daily turnout.
 
I have not read all the replies but If I had a setup without grazing, or with very limited grazing and I was considering setting up a yard my first thought would be setting up a specialist yard for vet referrals - rehab, box rest cases, hydro therapy etc... As a plain livery yard there is no way I would consider it for my horse, but if there was a yard that could take my horse on referral for recovery that's a set up I would consider
 
What about a rehab yard if you had the time and knowledge you could take in say horses on box rest, be a holding centre for RSPCA cases ( where they can go in an emergency for a few days until something can be sorted) or for police if you have fly grazing in your area. Or for laminitics in the initial stages a month or two there would probably suit.
 
I used to have lessons at a quality competition yard and while their paddocks were small and only used for a couple of hours a day, they needed a lot of room for their facilities which included a large XC course, a SJ paddock, gallops, 20 x 60 outdoor school, 20 x 40 indoor school, small horsewalker (would have been nicer if it was a big oval/rectangular one), large square yard with big looseboxes, grooms accommodation, large haybarn, storage buildings and hay fields.

So you can see how a yard for comp horses functioned very well with limited grazing, but they did have a lot of land in total and could have put in more paddocks if required.
 
snooch said:
I definitely would not be turning them all out at once lol

I guess I will have to give it lots more serious thought because with the absence of any grazing in summer too (unless I can convince the farmer up the lane to rent me the field next to the paddock) the hourses will be stuck with a paddock, I could install a horse walker too but not too sure how people feel about them.
In the venture I am thinking of undertaking I would actually be living on site in the farmhouse so would be there 24/7 to make sure things are all in order and run well .
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You've missed the point I was making... People like me looking for grass-free turnout want to be able to turn out our horses as if they were normal ie 24/7 in summer and during the days in winter. I can go to any yard in the country and restrict grazing by keeping my horse in a lot.
I don't see how you can possibly do anything like that with 15 horses and one medium paddock, you'll just be offering severely restricted grazing, like everyone else....
 
Thank you for all your helpful replies.

Can I just set the record straight for those who are worried that I aim to turn it into a competition yard or a livery with no grazing whatsoever that I have NO PLANS at all to do anything with it yet. I have had the chance to rent a 7 bedroom farmhouse with a large (could be) menarge, orchard and paddock.
There are 5 stables all ready to rent out and a further block of buildings which could hold another 10 standard sized stables or 6 luxury large ones, all of the stables will overlook the menage and are a stones throw from the farmhouse.

The farmhouse itself is on a secluded country lane with access to lots of woodland.

For me to turn it into a decent high quality yard (which is what I would do and not allow it to be dirty or unprofessional) I would have to plough a hell of a lot of money and hard work into it but personally I can see the bigger picture and think it is in a prime location for a great lievery. There is options to rent fields within a miles away from the yard so I guess that is also a viable option if I were to build some semi stables on there for summer grazing and offer limited turnout on the yard throughout winter.

Because I would be living on site all the time I am liking the idea of going more for a recovery yard as I could be there to gently exercise horses etc while owners where at work.

All of this is just ideas at the moment though hence writing a post on here to gather you good peoples thoughts..

Thanks again for all the replies
 
hollybear said:
You've missed the point I was making... People like me looking for grass-free turnout want to be able to turn out our horses as if they were normal ie 24/7 in summer and during the days in winter. I can go to any yard in the country and restrict grazing by keeping my horse in a lot.
I don't see how you can possibly do anything like that with 15 horses and one medium paddock, you'll just be offering severely restricted grazing, like everyone else....
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I understand and take your point :)
 
But to plough all that money into a rented property??????

IMO just because lots of yards, especially racing and competition, have no turnout it doesn't make it right or OK. Horses are social herd animals, nomadic herd animals. They are designed to move around constantly, and never to be confined in small spaces. OK, we have to confine them, and because we have domesticated them they have to dance to our tune - we pay the bills! But for welfare reasons I truly think that stabling such an animal - caging it, essentially - for long periods of solitary confinement is wrong. Physically and mentally detrimental. Sometimes it's necessary (debatably), but mostly we do it for our convenience. Some horses cope, others are screwed up by it. I don't think it's ever to be encouraged and would never use a yard with no turnout.
 
Definitely not no. I won't compromise on turnout, I like mine out all year round even if winter is restricted. No turnout just isn't a healthy option for a horse IMO.
 
No, and I think it would be wrong to exploit local horsefolk because there 'aren't many other yards about'. I would rather sell my horse than keep it indefinitely at a yard with no grazing.

I also wouldn't spend all that money on a rented property, either. It's a lot of money to plough into something with an uncertain future.
 
snooch said:
Because I would be living on site all the time I am liking the idea of going more for a recovery yard as I could be there to gently exercise horses etc while owners where at work.
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I would expect any rehab yard to have supervised, individual turnout paddocks with very good footing. Restricted turnout is often part of the recovery process.

By all means sink a pot full of money into this enterprise, but I can't see it succeeding unless you get more land adjoining the existing acreage.
 
With the house having seven bedrooms if its well located maybe there is mileage in the overnight stop suggestion? Or if you are near a big equestrian centre you could offer duration stables for shows with B&B or even just 'bring your horse' B&B

In your situation I would certainly look to make the house and five stables work harder, this stops you having to spend money on making more stables and reduces the pressure for grazing
 
snooch said:
For me to turn it into a decent high quality yard (which is what I would do and not allow it to be dirty or unprofessional) I would have to plough a hell of a lot of money and hard work into it but personally I can see the bigger picture and think it is in a prime location for a great lievery. There is options to rent fields within a miles away from the yard so I guess that is also a viable option if I were to build some semi stables on there for summer grazing and offer limited turnout on the yard throughout winter.
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I think that is what many people are getting at, the fact that it could work, but to do so will cost and it is a rented property so why you want to!
 
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