Livery with no grazing.

Penny Eater said:
I wouldn't consider limited turnout either, sorry. Not for livery and not for horsey B&B either. Both the horsey B & B holidays I've been on, we turned the horses out in a paddock overnight, I wouldn't like them stabled overnight if you've been hacking all day, I'd like them gently moving around so they don't get stiff stood all night and then be expected to do another long ride the next day.
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We have a good sized paddock for turn out, not sure I understand your post...you state you would not be happy with limited turnout for horsey bnb yet you have been on two holidays where the horses where turned into a paddock for the night...where is that any different? :)
 
Firefly9410 said:
Do not be put off OP :) This forum is not necessarily representative of the horse world as a whole. Most of the yards I have been on have offered about 7hrs grazing in summer and fields shut intermittently (every day it rains) in winter or 24/7 grazing in summer and fields shut completely for 6mths in winter. I know of others with less grazing than that. It has not stopped any of us successfully keeping happy horses or being happy ourselves. My friends and I consider things like a toilet to be a luxury! Most yards do not seem to have one.

Just because people on HHO are obsessed with turnout that does not mean that in an area with limited livery spaces your minimal grazing yard would not be a success. It would not even require too much financial investment initially if you have the field, the arena and five stables already you could start as soon as you have planning permission to run a business from the property.

If people in the area are being turned away from other yards many will come to you as the empty one even if it is only until a space comes up on a yard with more grazing. All yards have a degree of people moving on and off though, my yard is lovely but still after any 3mth period I find I no longer know half of the people on it! Good luck with your new venture.
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Thank you very very much xxxx
 
snooch said:
We have a good sized paddock for turn out, not sure I understand your post...you state you would not be happy with limited turnout for horsey bnb yet you have been on two holidays where the horses where turned into a paddock for the night...where is that any different? :)
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Because if you had a B&B, it doesn't sound like Penny Eater would have been able to turn her horse out at the end of the day, as you would be providing 'limited turnout' only.

I don't really see the point of a rehab centre either, why would people move from their current place?
 
SpringArising said:
Because if you had a B&B, it doesn't sound like Penny Eater would have been able to turn her horse out at the end of the day, as you would be providing 'limited turnout' only.

I don't really see the point of a rehab centre either, why would people move from their current place?
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Yes, this exactly, just assumed as you said limited turnout it may not be available. Your liveries might get a bit miffed if they couldn't use the paddock while you had horsey guests as well. Plus if this paddock was to be the only bit of grazing (assuming you can't get the 30 acres) then it's going to be in a pretty poor state very quickly.
 
SpringArising said:
I don't really see the point of a rehab centre either, why would people move from their current place?
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There is a limited market for rehab yards for those that work full time and have horses to rehab-rehabbing at home can be a complete nightmare in that scenario-especially in the winter.

OP, dont know where you are but there might also be something of a market in the TB industry-although they tend to have preferred yards to send horses to already. I used to work on a TB rehab yard and its still going strong-its also in Newmarket. Any turnout was only done on good ground in turnout pens. Rehab is labour intensive though and you need to know your stuff.

As for horsey B&B, just to play DA-knowing alot about grass sickness I would much prefer my horse didnt have turnout on strange premises and if they are out hacking for several hours a day, sane, well trained horses will not care if there's no turnout for a finite period of time. Owners can always walk out in hand if they don't cool down enough and worried about stiffness.
 
I suppose the logical thing would be for Op to state what period of time she considers the "limited turnout" would be?
Thing is, if you are offering holidays with horse, you need more than one paddock. Riders might be friends, but their horses might not live together. Therefore if you've got 4 or 5 people staying with their horses, you can't just turn the horses out in the same space.
Limited turnout tends to refer to just one or two hours a day, or not all days of the week. Turning horses out all night (which would probably be maybe 12+ hours is hardly something you'd call limited!
Personally Snoop I think you're kind of drip feeding here. One minute you're saying:

"I am seriously thinking of starting up a small livery yard with room for approximately 15 horses, although there are no field grazing the yard does have a medium sized paddock and a full sized menage..."

The next you might have a 30 acre field.

By the way, if you're considering holidays with horse you definitely need to do more research. What you mentioned earlier isn't exactly holiday facilities. Taking paying guests will affect your insurance, if you want to do B+B you'll need to get the proper training and certification, separate food storage... etc... etc...
 
I think people did read your post. The paddock you mentioned would not be sufficient for meeting the needs of 15 horses even if it had an all weather surface. Renting the extra 30 acres would make it viable.
I agree that the opinions of one, albeit quite large, horse forum are not representative of all horse owners, but in my own RL experience, lack of suitable turnout has been the biggest reason for liveries to leave an otherwise good yard. Not many leisure owners have the time to exercise each horse enough to compensate lack of turnout 365 days a year.
 
Following on from what Motherofchickens said - holiday with horses need a choice - stables and/or turnout. Some won't want turnout, but for a lot of people it's essential. By turnout I mean of course 6 hours or so... not a run round a menage or tiny paddock that's shared with the liveries.
I know about this, have personal experience.
 
snooch said:
Paddock is about 8 acres with a scope of another acre if I used the orchard too.
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That makes a difference I would say then, although 8 acres to 15 horses is not what I'd want it isn't u heard of, although not sure what you mean by no field grassing but have an 8 acre paddock. Based on my terminogy of a paddock Can u section the 8 acres into smaller paddocks then turnout in small groups so at least the horses can all go out at the same time. In summer you could prob get 5 hours a day on then if managed right and in winter you could offer every other day turnout for say 2 hours. It's not necessarly what I'd pick but plenty work like that.
 
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Tinypony said:
I suppose the logical thing would be for Op to state what period of time she considers the "limited turnout" would be?
Thing is, if you are offering holidays with horse, you need more than one paddock. Riders might be friends, but their horses might not live together. Therefore if you've got 4 or 5 people staying with their horses, you can't just turn the horses out in the same space.
Limited turnout tends to refer to just one or two hours a day, or not all days of the week. Turning horses out all night (which would probably be maybe 12+ hours is hardly something you'd call limited!
Personally Snoop I think you're kind of drip feeding here. One minute you're saying:

"I am seriously thinking of starting up a small livery yard with room for approximately 15 horses, although there are no field grazing the yard does have a medium sized paddock and a full sized menage..."

The next you might have a 30 acre field.

By the way, if you're considering holidays with horse you definitely need to do more research. What you mentioned earlier isn't exactly holiday facilities. Taking paying guests will affect your insurance, if you want to do B+B you'll need to get the proper training and certification, separate food storage... etc... etc...
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This seems a little unfair, the OP is vague and inconsistent because they are only at the thinking of ideas stage. I disagree about not having holiday facilities. The OP offers good off road hacking, a stable, possibly some time in the field and rooms which could be used for b&b. What more do people want from a horse based holiday?
 
snooch said:
Hi, I am new here so apologies if I have posted this in the wrong section.
I am wanting some thoughts on what you people think about Livery without grazing.
I am seriously thinking of starting up a small livery yard with room for approximately 15 horses, although there are no field grazing the yard does have a medium sized paddock and a full sized menage, it also boasts of lots of off road hacking as it is a countryside location.

My question is (before I plough lots of money into it ) would you be happy to stable your horse at a yard with no grazing and only limited turn out?

Thank you in advance for any replies.
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I worked at Fulmer Equestrian Centre which had O turnout no fields what so ever, it was a riding school so horses were regulary excercised. They had their fair share of liveries so there are some which except no grazing. Some of these horses were much loved pets - some competition. The other thing some horses cannot go out for ailment issues so you could set up as rehab livery where grass livery has to come in. Though this of course would mean you had ever changing horses coming through. The other thing is horses with a disability moonblindness or deformaty may prefer no grazing and just grazing in hand or turnout in school. You could ask local farm if he had small paddock to rent to give some turnout.


You will of course here have a huge repsonse of *NO* answers here because they are used to acres of fields for their horses but there are some out there who don't need turnout. But what they forget is there are places who have no turnout due to the location.

I have worked in two places where there was NO turnout - Fulmer one place and Stag Lodge Stables is another in Roehampton. Search or google these places to see what they do as an alternative to turnout.


Stag Lodge does seem to have another yard nearby now but When I worked there in 1981 there was just the one place, their websitehttp://www.ridinginlondon.com/
 
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8 acres is more than I imagined from your OP. What is the soil like? You could make some well fenced individual turnout paddocks out of that amount of land if the footing was good, (clay would be bad.).

I can't see the owners of a horse sent for rehab wanting group turnout.
 
HGA-12 said:
I worked at Fulmer Equestrian Centre which had O turnout no fields what so ever, it was a riding school so horses were regulary excercised. They had their fair share of liveries so there are some which except no grazing. Some of these horses were much loved pets - some competition. The other thing some horses cannot go out for ailment issues so you could set up as rehab livery where grass livery has to come in. Though this of course would mean you had ever changing horses coming through. The other thing is horses with a disability moonblindness or deformaty may prefer no grazing and just grazing in hand or turnout in school. You could ask local farm if he had small paddock to rent to give some turnout.


You will of course here have a huge repsonse of *NO* answers here because they are used to acres of fields for their horses but there are some out there who don't need turnout. But what they forget is there are places who have no turnout due to the location.

I have worked in two places where there was NO turnout - Fulmer one place and Stag Lodge Stables is another in Roehampton. Search or google these places to see what they do as an alternative to turnout.


Stag Lodge does seem to have another yard nearby now but When I worked there in 1981 there was just the one place, their websitehttp://www.ridinginlondon.com/
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Thank you for your comments I will google the places now :)
 
Tiddlypom said:
8 acres is more than I imagined from your OP. What is the soil like? You could make some well fenced individual turnout paddocks out of that amount of land if the footing was good, (clay would be bad.).

I can't see the owners of a horse sent for rehab wanting group turnout.
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It is in good condition now and we are in the middle of winter, no bogginess or anything but I am under no illusion that turning horses out on it daily will soon have it mushed up and muddy, limiting the turnout and rotating the paddock could solve this :)
 
"I like the idea of a horse BnB and we will have plenty of room for that, the area is full off lovely woodland and off road hacking so I can see that being a hit at weekends when city horse people want somewhere a little different to enjoy, we do have a very large barn and several other high quality outbuildings where a settee, microwave, kettle etc can be put in....The outside toilet is already under construction to support a shower and change room too."

Firefly - a horse B+B normally involves rooms to sleep in, baths to soak in, lovely breakfasts... If you run a B+B and provide food then you need to meet food hygiene regulations. I used to run a B+B and have "baby-sat" and equestrian one, so am actually giving Op some useful advice. And to be honest I don't think it was unfair to ask Op to clarify what she meant by limited turnout, because it is now apparent that things aren't as bad as they seemed at first. The title of the thread is "livery with no grazing".
 
snooch said:
Thank you for your comments I will google the places now :)
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It does seem they offer grass turnout but where that is I have no idea as there are no fields nearby

Alas Fulmer Equestrian Centre is no longer there it was flattened years ago including both their indoor schools
 
snooch said:
what you people think about Livery without grazing.
I am seriously thinking of starting up a small livery yard with room for approximately 15 horses, although there are no field grazing the yard does have a medium sized paddock and a full sized menage

My question is (before I plough lots of money into it ) would you be happy to stable your horse at a yard with no grazing and only limited turn out?
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I've been following this with interest and now I'm confused. You have an 8 acre paddock. Your thread is called 'Livery with no grazing'. Where does the 8 acres feature if there's no grazing?
 
Arzada said:
I've been following this with interest and now I'm confused. You have an 8 acre paddock. Your thread is called 'Livery with no grazing'. Where does the 8 acres feature if there's no grazing?
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As people have rightly stated you need at least an acre of grazing per horse, If I were t fill my stables with 15 horses then the grazing is no where near enough with eight acres for 15 horses. That is why I put no grazing and limited turn out...unless you think that 8 acres is enough for 15 horses :)
 
snooch said:
As people have rightly stated you need at least an acre of grazing per horse, If I were t fill my stables with 15 horses then the grazing is no where near enough with eight acres for 15 horses. That is why I put no grazing and limited turn out...unless you think that 8 acres is enough for 15 horses :)
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I see - no I don't think that is enough for 15 horses! Could you have fewer horses?
 
I don't have enough turnout per stable. I have 7 stables and about 2.5 acers. My grass is always overgrown as we just don't use turnout!! My two DIYs do a bit in the summer. My horse will have 20min a couple times a week when his stallion paddock is up and the horses I have come in for schooling/competing by rule don't go out (unless the owner really wants them out but about 1/10 do!)
 
I think 8 acres is sufficient for turnout, if the horses are stabled all year round, and the turnout is for exercise/mental wellbeing, rather than for sustenance. The acre per horse rule is related to sufficient grazing to sustain them. If you are aiming it at high end full/part livery, then 8 acres divided into small turnout paddocks would probably be seen as a positive.
 
Wagtail said:
Actually, yes under certain circumstances, for example if I had a lami prone horse, and there are plenty people who do. Grazing is not always what it's cracked up to be. I would think there is a market for a yard specialising in horses that need to be kept primarily off grass. You could turn the paddock into a track system with varied surfaces (sand, gravel, concrete, embankments and the occasional grassy patch. You could put forage stations at various points to keep the horses moving. So before writing it off I would do a bit of market research in the area - perhaps put up a poll here in one of the regional forums.
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I wouldn't if there was no turnout whatsoever but if something like what wagtail said was put in then I might change my mind
 
They do get time out (my own horse goes in the school but he can jump onto the road hence waiting for the stallion fencing).

The others are worked either in the school/hacked, go jumping once/twice a week, get time out with the massage pad/solarium. They tend to chill all day snoozing and like I say if the owner states it they go out for an hour or so but most don't bother. This is quite normal with the yards I deal with for horses to be in this routine. Horses I get for schooling arnt on my worming plan and I keep them fairly isolated to keep infection down. Also people sending horses to me don't normally want to risk injury from turn out at a strange yard. I Never had any issues yet x
 
I don't think people on here are "obsessed" by turnout!

It's natural and healthy and in my view a necessity for a horse. Even a competition horse is still a horse. It wants to play, roll and run around the field. I wouldn't keep my dog in his crate all day and only let him out to exercise him.
 
snooch said:
As people have rightly stated you need at least an acre of grazing per horse, If I were t fill my stables with 15 horses then the grazing is no where near enough with eight acres for 15 horses. That is why I put no grazing and limited turn out...unless you think that 8 acres is enough for 15 horses :)
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It can be done if managed and the soil is good drainage we have 11/12 horses on 8 acres, our land copes very well - but we do not do 24 hour grazing so the land is not grazed full time. Would not put more than 12 on ours though as that would also be too much work for me as I work solo.
 
I think you could run a small livery yard using the 5 stables you already have and the 8 acres, but unless you can rent some more land very close by - or create viable 'second yard' with secure storage, water, electricity, hard-standing and plenty of room to tie up for the summer at the grazing a mile away you mentioned, I wouldn't even think about putting more horses on it.

Could you rent out the other outbuildings for other purposes to make up the shortfall? Would they make good storage units or workshop space for local craftsmen or would there be a demand for unusual meeting places for local businesses? I'm thinking of corporate away days or something like where they could use the orchard as a base for team building activities etc. This would have insurance implications though and would probably need quite a lot of investment to start off.

The horsey B&B could work as you could split the paddock into small 1/2 acre turnout 'pens'. While I wouldn't want my horse in something this size long term, overnight for a couple of nights at a weekend would be fine. This would of course have implications for the house and running it as a B&B unless you could team up with a local B&B so they look after the riders and you look after the horses?
 
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