LIVERY YARD OWNERS - ANSWERS ON A POSTCARD PLEASE

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black_horse

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I pay for competition and training livery at my yard, this includes full livery plus training of my horse 5 times a week. I have been there for a year. It has been brought to my attention that on top of paying enterance fees, diesel and any other competing costs, the YO will be charging me the time my trainer (who is the YM) takes to compete...im at a show on thursday and im worried on top of the normals costs (enterance fees, diesel, bacon butties etc) i will also be paying for the trainer by the hour....i think this is wholely unfair.

I have also been presented with a bill for my horse being 'walked out in hand to graze' (£20 a time) due to the fields being unsuitable.

Now i love the yard, and all those on it, and i like the YM and the YO and feel we are friends as well as business aquaintences. But i feel slighted by this. my livery bill was £900 for last month (she charged me £250 for using the yard from my dissertation when it was agreed £50 would be ok...apparently it is the safe as 6.5 x private lessons and the use of the grooms....)

im a bit pig sick by it all. i have been on many a professional yard, and worked on a few, NOWHERE i have been have you paid for time.

It has also been proposed that the YO is looking into charging the YM if she recieves trainging. this means that when teh YM is being trained on my horse, not only do i have to pay for the lesson, but also for hire of the facilities (no one else uses and hire of facilities is in the livery costs) but also for the YM time spent training on my horse (even though i pay TRAINING livery)....im so confussed about all this...

i have been there a year, nothing like this has ever happened, they have lost 4 liveries in quick succession (unrelated causes). They do run a good yard. But the original plan for the yard was to be a professional dressage/showing yard...now there is talk of taking on no more liveries but only horses to be broken and sold....

advice needed please! i dont want to fall out over this, and i do love the yard, think its fab etc. I have even said i want embroded jackets/saddlecloths to wear at shows and maybe graphics for my lorry to help publish the yard...thoughts please!
 
£900 for a months livery?!?!?!?!
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I'd be leaving pronto - sorry! Particularly if you're sure the yard is going to go the way you don't want it to.

As for charging for walking out to graze - aren't they supposed to provide grazing as part of your livery agreement??
 
Too many variables there, how much is your weekly charge supposed to be for livery and 5 days horse ridden?
 
Sounds like they are trying to squeeze every penny out of you!
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For what it is worth though, it is not unreasonable for someone to charge for their 'time' competing.

Can you ask them to be really clear about what exactly the training livery includes?
 
this is a hard one for me as im a diyer, so the costs to me generally seem very high,( but may be standard for the type of livery)

I can honestly (imho)say tho to be charged for the trainers time at a show comes under your livery and shouldnt be charged as extra i think that it is unreasonable!! what grates with me and your position is the bacon butties for what your paying this yard, they should be buying their own damn butties!! AND 20quid to walk out in hand because 'their' grazing isnt suitable!!
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yeah they are...i think thats very cheeky.

thing is i cant just walk. im recupperating form injury (very long, slow process) so need 100% support, someone to ride my mare (who is very tricky!!!) and to help train me (be sympathetic to my disabilities and push me enough but not too much).

in that respect they are fab!!! but im sensing jealousy. My horse is very talented, and i buy her what she needs etc. I bought her a neighlox supplement (not cheap!) due to scouring etc (against their advice but with advice form Lizzy drury) and it worke in 2 days!!!
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but they went from sayign i had been ripped off to saying it might not be due to that or 'cause she is out of season..'

the YO talked about this to another client who is an 'expert' and they though i had been ripped off (my money, my horse, my choice! and i worked... so
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lol). I am always open to advice etc, your always leanring after all and i am young (22). but in this instance, i knew i knew best and i was a lil dishearted when they belittle my good judgement.

They have also made comments about the fact i never drive there (i cant drive that great at the mo) and i alwya have a lift with my mother. But we have always done the horse together, its a lil ritual i would hate to lose. but it makes me feel a lil inadequate about myself and hacks at my self esteem and confidence.

i really dont want to move, my horse has never looked better, she is going fantastic and i do love the yard and the people, but this problem is causing a lump in my throat, i cant afford bills like this monthly!
 
So, if your horse is on a competition yard (in all but name) and you don't compete it yourself. Put it with a professional. You're well placed in your neck of the woods.

You will get charged for extras - such as galloping the horse, comp entry fees, share of diesl etc.

But your current yard certainly sounds as if they're taking the proverbial.

Remeber - in business there's no such thing as a friend.
 
Actually, I don't necessarily think paying for a trainer to go to a show with you is out of order, although it depends on what your weekly charge is.

Put it this way - depending on the level of training I would expect to pay £150-200 for ridden livery and would fully expect to pay for a trainer to attend a show on top.

However I used to work for a showjumper and his competition livery was £350 per week and that included training and a groom at show
 
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Too many variables there, how much is your weekly charge supposed to be for livery and 5 days horse ridden?

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£150 / week to include being ridden 5 x a week (schooling/lunge/hacking)

lessons are £30 a time (no discount for being a livery...)

i get a £5 reduction for supplying my own feed, and we get 1 bale of shavings in with the rent, i buy the rest as i can get them cheaper.
 
well they saw you coming........you pay extra above full livery for training, so surely their time and facility time will have been factored in already. are we talking about a name ie famouse yard? how big is it are you compensating the lose of the other liveries? i agree with scotsmare time to move nearly £12k a year for you not to be happy is 12K to much
 
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So, if your horse is on a competition yard (in all but name) and you don't compete it yourself. Put it with a professional. You're well placed in your neck of the woods.

You will get charged for extras - such as galloping the horse, comp entry fees, share of diesl etc.

But your current yard certainly sounds as if they're taking the proverbial.

Remeber - in business there's no such thing as a friend.

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their business tag line is 'professional training and competition yard'

in the last year, i have paid diesel, fees etc, on the understanding YM riding the horse generate publisity for the yard in teh hope of more liveries come in etc and more revenue for the YM ( who is the trainer btw).

The YM is astounded by all this, v. embaressed and appoligetic.

might i add im using my own lorry, i groom myself, i do everything, the YM rides, i do all the preparation etc, and it was the YM idea to attent the shows, not mine.
 
Honestly .... £150 is just a regular full livery sort of price, I would expect to pay extras on top of that (within reason). In your position I would ask YO for a clear list of charges and then decide from that what extras you want or don't want.
 
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well they saw you coming........you pay extra above full livery for training, so surely their time and facility time will have been factored in already. are we talking about a name ie famouse yard? how big is it are you compensating the lose of the other liveries? i agree with scotsmare time to move nearly £12k a year for you not to be happy is 12K to much

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they have lost out on over £700 a month in the lose of the liverires, there is only myself on competition livery there...the rest are either full or part/DIY livery. I pay the most on the yard, and are subjected to everyones opinions.

I dont mind paying time as long as its REASONABLE.
a 6 1/2 dissertation cost me £196.....if that is going to mirror the cost of attenting a show...i cant swallow that cost easily...
 
i was wondering could i be within my right to offer to increase livery to £170 per week to factor in time spent at shows???

i might add due to my disability, i need regular lessons (2/3 per week @ £30 a throw...) i have asked if i can get discount as i am a regular customer and i NEED the lesson to be safe but the cost is crippeling me...
 
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she charged me £250 for using the yard from my dissertation when it was agreed £50 would be ok...apparently it is the safe as 6.5 x private lessons and the use of the grooms....

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I "borrowed" my boss, one of the other members of staff, four horses and two and a half hours of time in the school for my dissertation (had to video jumping) all for the grand sum of... wait for it... a bottle of wine and a free day's work!
A certain YO I know tends to squeeze pennies out of people... but not with half as much force as yours does
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I agree with the others that paying for "time" competing isn't that unreasonable, but the YO does seem to be making you pay two or three times for some things... It sounds like you pay a premium rate for a premium rate service already, don't be taken for a ride and be made to pay it twice over. Ask for a breakdown of precisely what you are paying for. If it doesn't add up, there are plenty more livery yards who will be perfectly happy to take you on, I'm sure... and be sympathetic and accommodating to you, while running their business in a more professional manner.
 
Do you think that maybe they are exploiting your circumstances? Thinking they can pluck a number from the air and you'll pay it becuase you won't/can't leave.

I think maybe it's time to look for a comparable setup where you won't be taken for a mug.

I'm sure there are other people around who can and will be able to manage your mare.

Sometimes the thought of moving on is actually worse than the moving!!
 
Re the lessons - the thing is, why should they give you a discount? Even if you are having regular lessons like that, if they were not teaching you they could be teaching someone else who is paying full whack...if they did give you a discount, would you complain if they cancelled you at short notice in favour of someone who was paying the full rate? Because I could certainly see that happening!

I think the advice you have been given is very sensible - ask them for a list of all charges and pick and choose which elements you wish to have added on to your standard bill. Then look at whether or not you can get a similar service for a similar price elsewhere or not.
 
because i really dont want to move
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:'( i really like it there ... how much is reasonable for 'time' spent competing, i can see why its reasonable (my mother cant!)...if its anything like my dissertation a show could cost £250 a day!!!
 
You need an hourly charge from them. I can see why it is reasonable to charge it, but it should be split evenly - if it is just your horse then you pay it all. If it is your horse and A N Other, it is split according to how long is spent with each horse, and driving time is split 50:50.

You need to be more business like with them, and they with you.
 
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Re the lessons - the thing is, why should they give you a discount? Even if you are having regular lessons like that, if they were not teaching you they could be teaching someone else who is paying full whack...if they did give you a discount, would you complain if they cancelled you at short notice in favour of someone who was paying the full rate? Because I could certainly see that happening!


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im' the only livery who has frequent lessons and another livery is payig £20 perlesson! thats why, i am being charged more BECAUSE im on training livery (she is on part livery)
 
Rachel, I really appreciate that you don't want to move but until you get a handle on what they're charging you and what they're planning to charge you then they could quite easily take the p*ss without you being any the wiser until you get the bill. Remember what you said about not being able to foot enormous bills - none of us can.

I appreciate that your circumstances are difficult hun, but there are other yards out there who will do a good professional job for you and your girl.

Please think about what everyone has said and approach your YO / YM and get the charges listed - they have to provide this information to you and if they refuse then I'm sorry but when it comes to your bill they're just charging what they feel like.
 
I really think you need to look around at other yards - even if you don't end up moving anywhere it will give you a better idea of whether you are being overcharged/taken advantage of/paying the going rate. Once you have got some comparisons you will be in a much stronger position to re-negotiate,leave etc etc. You say they are understanding about your disability and what you can and can't do but from what you have written it really doesn't seem like they are that understanding.

Do some more research locally - you will then be in a much stronger position to make the right descision for you and your girl.
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Good luck with it - let us know how you get on.
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it will be the use of my lorry (mine and the YM horse she will contribute to the diesel etc). what would a reasonable hourly rate be?/ the YO sees it as the cost of a provat elesson (£30 per hour - the thinking is that she could be teaching in this time...but the reality is she is not...im the only one who trains with the YM, so the only lessons the YM is missing out on is me!!!)
 
Why don't you stay at the same yard, go part livery and find a sharer or someone who just wants to ride?

Or just have less lessons?
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It sounds to me irrespective of whether you are being ripped off that the YO is very likely in financial trouble (or worrying about it) if you factor in the newly added charges to yourself and the change in direction of the yard (i.e to backing).
Therefore I would not be surprised if more changes in routine/care/charges occur. It also sounds as if they believe they can take advantage of you without guilt as they see you as being in a good situation financially.
IMO the standard livery is relatively cheap compared to many yards until they add the new'small print'.
I would bear in mind that there are many yards out there who will offer the same services, probably be more welcoming and accomodating and have a much more professional attitude towards you. I myself would be moving, especially if the yard is going to become filled with a constant stream of unruly youngsters on what I previously thought would be a dressage/competition yard (as this does not sound ideal for your situation). The hidden charges would be the nail in the coffin.
It will be a difficult decision to make now, but in the long term may be the best answer.
 
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im' the only livery who has frequent lessons and another livery is payig £20 perlesson! thats why, i am being charged more BECAUSE im on training livery (she is on part livery)

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That makes absolutely no sense at all and I would be bringing it up with them. So are you paying £150 a week for them to ride 5 times and then £30 again to have a lesson? I am presuming they do not ride on the days you ride?

I am aware this is going to sound harsh, but it really does sound like you haven't a clue what you are paying for or what each thing will cost you - until you have it written down, with an explanation of why your lessons are more expensive than the other livery's - which could be perfectly logical such as they ride in daylight and you ride under floodlights, or you require more help due to your disability or even they have a shorter lesson than you - etc, then you simply won't get a handle on this!

I have a list of charges from my yard, and I know exactly what something will cost before I ask them to do it.
 
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