Livery Yard Rules

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KittyG1980

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Morning

I am just after a bit of advice - we have kept our horse on a DIY livery yard in Northumberland for the past few of months and other than the usual yard politics it has all been fine. However, last night a sign has gone up to say that horses are no longer allowed to be left out in the filed on their own and that if i bring my horse in and leave one out on its own I would be kicked off the yard!

One of the reasons we moved there is because we were told our horse would be fine to be left out on his own (he is perfectly happy to be left and just calmly grazes until we bring him in). The bringing in other peoples horses also brings up all sorts of liability issues as if I am bringing someone else's horse and it panics / kicks / gets injured then where do i stand as i was moving it at the time - as it is a DIY yard there are no staff on site to help and not all of the horses have liability insurance.

I am happy to help people out but I own one horse and if i wanted more than I would get one. Does anyone else know where we would stand on this?

Cheers

K
 
I'd try and find out who / what had instigated this, and maybe have a chat with the YO and explain your horse is fine on his own.
 
Who put the sign up? if there are no staff is it a livery trying their luck? I'd find out who put it up and ask them how they feel the rule is workable/sensible - I am sure they will have thought it through ;) It is standard rule at a lot of yards so must work there - what do the other liveries think?
 
It's a normal rule at most yards to be honest, I would hate for my horse to be left alone, though we do have a couple of horses for whom expects are made. Just talk to your yard manager :)
 
schneeko said:
It's a normal rule at most yards to be honest, I would hate for my horse to be left alone, though we do have a couple of horses for whom expects are made. Just talk to your yard manager :)
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This. The only occasion my horse was left out on her own she galloped up and down the fence line, thankfully she was unhurt and I sorted it for other nights. I would never leave a horse out on their own.
 
Hi all

Thanks for your responses. My question is really around what the liability is if I bring someone else's horse in from the field and the horse / me / a passer by / property particularly as I would not be comfortable bringing in some of the the other horses in from the field. My horse is liability insured but i know that a lot of the other horses are not

Cheers
 
KittyG1980 said:
Hi all

Thanks for your responses. My question is really around what the liability is if I bring someone else's horse in from the field and the horse / me / a passer by / property particularly as I would not be comfortable bringing in some of the the other horses in from the field. My horse is liability insured but i know that a lot of the other horses are not

Cheers
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*the horse / me / a passer by / property gets hurt / damaged*
 
Most yards have this rule. It stops horses getting distressed on their own and damaging themselves or the field. Most yards also insist that horses/owners have 3rd party liability insurance.

It isn't a big deal to bring in another horse or to work around it so that a horse isn't left on its own. Usually you can figure something out so that you don't end up having to bring another in. For example asking if anyone is putting out soon and hanging on for a bit.
 
I don't understand why everything has to involve legalities or insurance etc, at my yard if theres one horse left out when your bringing yours in you bring it in as well, the horse being insured 3rd party has never even crossed my mind, you just do it.

Todays culture of 'where there's a blame there's a claim' is beyond a joke
 
Carrots&Mints said:
I don't understand why everything has to involve legalities or insurance etc, at my yard if theres one horse left out when your bringing yours in you bring it in as well, the horse being insured 3rd party has never even crossed my mind, you just do it.

Todays culture of 'where there's a blame there's a claim' is beyond a joke
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I couldn't agree more. My yard has the same rule, and insurance and legalities have never crossed my mind either. My horse is okay on his own, but I know that some of the others aren't so I'm perfectly happy bringing them in.
 
Carrots&Mints said:
I don't understand why everything has to involve legalities or insurance etc, at my yard if theres one horse left out when your bringing yours in you bring it in as well, the horse being insured 3rd party has never even crossed my mind, you just do it.

Todays culture of 'where there's a blame there's a claim' is beyond a joke
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Agree. And if you're that worried about getting hurt, wear a hat and some gloves and lead in a bridle.

P
 
I think it's an awful rule and I'd never keep my horses on a yard with this rule, however, it does seem to be a usual rule these days at many DIY yards in the UK. I think you will just have to grin and bear it or move to a yard which doesn't insist on people having to do this. As to liability if you were to injure yourself/horse/vehicles etc whilst bringing in someone else's horse, I've no idea where you'd stand on this. I suspect your own insurance will cover you to handle other horses on the premises. As others have said, I'd find out who actually wrote this sign, if it was the YO then you have no choice but to either accept it or discuss it with them stating your distaste for it. If it was one of the other DIYers then I'd discuss it with them.
 
I was on a yard with this rule. I think it's fairly standard. However it was abused by one particular owner who never got their horse in because they knew someone else would as it was always going to be last one left out.
 
Carrots&Mints said:
I don't understand why everything has to involve legalities or insurance etc, at my yard if theres one horse left out when your bringing yours in you bring it in as well, the horse being insured 3rd party has never even crossed my mind, you just do it.

Todays culture of 'where there's a blame there's a claim' is beyond a joke
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I agree, we have this rule on our yard. We don't want horses left on their own, galloping around pulling tendons etc. As a yard owner of course we are insured but i would never leave one out incase its not insured and it trampled me etc. All liveries agree.
 
claracanter said:
I was on a yard with this rule. I think it's fairly standard. However it was abused by one particular owner who never got their horse in because they knew someone else would as it was always going to be last one left out.
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At my previus yard it was abused by someone, but normally it works very well, stops horses becoming stressed!!

Last week whilst the weather was pretty crap, thundering and lightening... a girl who keeps her pony out with mine came up to the yard at 11 oclock at night in her PJ's and took her pony into his stable and left mine out on his own, needless to say mine went crazy and jumped the fence after they had disappeared!! Luckily hes unhurt, but because someone did not follow the rules he could have been seriously injured if he had wandered further or gone onto the road
 
Carrots&Mints said:
I don't understand why everything has to involve legalities or insurance etc, at my yard if theres one horse left out when your bringing yours in you bring it in as well, the horse being insured 3rd party has never even crossed my mind, you just do it.

Todays culture of 'where there's a blame there's a claim' is beyond a joke
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JJS said:
I couldn't agree more. My yard has the same rule, and insurance and legalities have never crossed my mind either. My horse is okay on his own, but I know that some of the others aren't so I'm perfectly happy bringing them in.
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Me too. And to be honest, if you're that nervous around other people's horses, do you really think you're in a position to have your own?
 
Dear All

Thank you for those that have given helpful advice.

I came on here to get some advice, not to be abused by certain individuals and told I shouldn't own a horse as i am not confident around other peoples horses - HOW DARE YOU - YOU HAVE NO IDEA OF MY BACKGROUND SO STOP BEING A TROLL AND IF ALL YOU CAN DO IS JUDGE THEN DON'T SAY ANYTHING!!!

I will be logging off here now and not logging back on again
 
JennBags said:
Me too. And to be honest, if you're that nervous around other people's horses, do you really think you're in a position to have your own?
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I don't believe she said she was nervous around other horses, she implied she was concerned about the damage that could be done to vehicles/people/property/horse should anything go wrong. It's a valid concern.
 
KittyG1980 said:
Dear All

Thank you for those that have given helpful advice.

I came on here to get some advice, not to be abused by certain individuals and told I shouldn't own a horse as i am not confident around other peoples horses - HOW DARE YOU - YOU HAVE NO IDEA OF MY BACKGROUND SO STOP BEING A TROLL AND IF ALL YOU CAN DO IS JUDGE THEN DON'T SAY ANYTHING!!!

I will be logging off here now and not logging back on again
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I don't blame you. That comment was completely uncalled for. I think it's a terrible rule and since you've been on that yard for a while without that rule, and very happy, I'd be cross that it changed for what appears to be no reason. Perhaps if someone's horse cannot be left out alone they should make arrangements themselves rather than relying on the goodwill of others to ensure their horse does not pull a tendon or whatever. Maybe horses in pairs so that there's only ever the same horse to bring in with yours and you and the other owner can work out your times etc. Or perhaps the YO/YM can do the honours, with a suitable bill to the last out, it's their rule, after all. There must be some way round it rather than leaving it completely to chance as to who brings in the last horse. As for getting suited, booted and bridled to do the honours, who has the time or inclination? If you're DIY it's to look after your own horse, not someone else's. The same as the rule of 'first one on the yard feeds'. If you don't have that rule the horses soon work out who DOES feed them and ignore everyone else. Being on a yard with either of those rules would drive me nuts!
 
It depends what was in the original contract that you signed when you started at the yard.
If there was no contract then they need to issue a contract with this in it but give everyone fair one month notice of the new terms of keeping the horse at the yard.
If there was a contract but this was not in it then a new contract needs to be issued but giving everyone one months notice of the day it becomes effective.
Absolutely no one should be obliged to bring in someone else's horse unless it has been agreed between the two parties and all horses at a yard should have third party public liability insurance of no less than £10,000,000 (Ten Million Pounds). A recent court case demonstrated that the owner of the horse is responsible for any accident that it causes wherever the blame lies.
 
claracanter said:
I was on a yard with this rule. I think it's fairly standard. However it was abused by one particular owner who never got their horse in because they knew someone else would as it was always going to be last one left out.
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This is the problem, someone always abuses it & uses someone else to bri8ng their horse in. I was at a yard that said the first one on the yard would feed all horses. again there were some liveries that never came down early. It wasn't work commitments it was sheer lazyness.
 
KittyG1980 said:
Hi all

Thanks for your responses. My question is really around what the liability is if I bring someone else's horse in from the field and the horse / me / a passer by / property particularly as I would not be comfortable bringing in some of the the other horses in from the field. My horse is liability insured but i know that a lot of the other horses are not

Cheers
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Spring Feather said:
I don't believe she said she was nervous around other horses, she implied she was concerned about the damage that could be done to vehicles/people/property/horse should anything go wrong. It's a valid concern.
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I think if you're worrying about liability, it is because you are worrying that you cannot control the horse, and therefore in my mind that equates to being nervous - maybe it's just the way my mind works though. She did say she's not comfortable bringing in some of the horses - again, that indicates being somewhat nervous.

It's a fairly standard rule on a lot of livery yards - it may not be ideal, but if you don't like the rules (whether they are new rules or ones already existing) then you need to either do something about them or move yards. Maybe the rule was an unwritten one that was always there, and recently there have been issues with leaving a horse alone, so it has become a written rule.

I think the OP had a completely bizarre response - and if she reacts like that in RL, then there's no wonder that she's being threatened with eviction from her yard.
 
I agree SF. It is a valid concern, I know a very experienced YO who nearly lost her life after being double barrelled by a livery's very rude horse and is now disabled.
There are one or two (DIY) owners at my current yard that have an arrangement for their horses to be brought in first by the YO because they are rude and will run over anything in their way, at the gate. It's a solution that prevents needless risk to other owners and horses.
When you have a fluid horse population, it's usual to have a no-horse-alone rule on yards to prevent horses getting stressed and injured. People should just ensure it can be done safely by arranging to have someone else to help if needed or agree that the bargy one's are the first to be brought in.
In order to survive on DIY, everyone needs to communicate and work together.
 
Carrots&Mints said:
I don't understand why everything has to involve legalities or insurance etc, at my yard if theres one horse left out when your bringing yours in you bring it in as well, the horse being insured 3rd party has never even crossed my mind, you just do it.

Todays culture of 'where there's a blame there's a claim' is beyond a joke
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Agree with this!

However if there's a horse on the yard you are not happy to handle I would tell the YO.
 
JennBags said:
Me too. And to be honest, if you're that nervous around other people's horses, do you really think you're in a position to have your own?
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What a ridiculous comment.

Just because a person is comfortable and happy in handling their own horse, who they are used to handling day in, day out, does not mean they should be comfortable handling someone else's, who's horse may well be a completely different kettle of fish to handle than their own.

I am pregnant, and still look after my horse entirely on my own. A 16.3 big, strong and sometimes flighty mare. Yet I refuse to lead another livery's horse in from the field currently because it is known to barge and be extremely bolshy, sometimes running straight through you. I am not willing to take that risk currently. Does that mean I should sell my horse because I am 'not in a position to have her'?
 
No matter how experienced you are, there are some horses you would far rather leave to their owners than try and struggle to bring in with your own. That comment about the OP was completely uncalled for!

OP, in this case, as you know your horse is OK if left alone, then I would ask the YO if you can be an exception and have a little note on the field gate and on his stable, the only exception would be if you made a specific arrangement with someone to bring him in if you were going to be away, for instance.
 
I'm just milling over the implications of this practice, based on Owlie's comment above. To everyone who has not considered these implications, imagine the worst case scenario here; someone else is bringing in your horse from the field one night, say the horse freaks for some reason and either runs onto a laneway/road/parking area and collides with a car with passengers in killing a passenger in the process, OR kills the handler. Their next of kin decides to sue you, as owner, for involuntary manslaughter (or whatever the UK term is). That's okay with you all? You'd accept being charged/convicted with that whilst someone else had been handling your horse and inadvertantly killing someone? Sure as heck wouldn't be okay with me.
 
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