Livery Yard Rules

Gosh, what a judgemental lot some of you are!

The OP has raised a genuine concern. She hasn't stated she is nervous/novice, or otherwise incapable, she has raised a very valid point about handling other peoples horses, and the potential for things to go wrong.

It is a "rule" at my yard that horses are not left out on their own. This only applies to those horses grazed in the large groups, which is why I have my own horses on individual turnout. Neither my lad nor my mare are particularly upset if their respective field buddies are taken out of their paddocks (they graze two to a field). I have them this way so that not only are they left in peace to graze for as long as I choose, but that they are not handled by anyone I haven't approved. Sounds a bit snotty I know, but I am sure everyone has a few numpties at their yard....

I have nearly 50 years horse experience, but I would not be inclined to handle some of the ill disciplined and rowdy horses favoured by some owners, particularly those who seem to ALWAYS be the last horses to come in. I know full well that at least one of the people at my yard play the system to their advantage, and don't bother coming back to the yard in the evening, knowing that someone else will put the horse in for them. Its just a way of getting out of paying the yard groom to do it for them. This did backfire on her for a while though, as one of the ladies who got fed up doing it would bring the horse in but remove the evening feed bucket, and then text the girl to tell her the horse was in but the feed and hay had been removed, meaning that the owner then HAD to come up. It stopped her doing it for a while until this lady left, and she is back to her old ways now.
 
Spring Feather said:
I'm just milling over the implications of this practice, based on Owlie's comment above. To everyone who has not considered these implications, imagine the worst case scenario here; someone else is bringing in your horse from the field one night, say the horse freaks for some reason and either runs onto a laneway/road/parking area and collides with a car with passengers in killing a passenger in the process, OR kills the handler. Their next of kin decides to sue you, as owner, for involuntary manslaughter (or whatever the UK term is). That's okay with you all? You'd accept being charged/convicted with that whilst someone else had been handling your horse and inadvertantly killing someone? Sure as heck wouldn't be okay with me.
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No I wouldnt its a fair point, another situation is when my horse was a colt on a livery yard this rule applied, I always made an effort to get to the yard early so my colt was in although he was in a field alone and would not have been upset by the other horses leaving, on one occasion I got delayed some guy on the yard decided to fetch him in and proceeded to yank him around bellowing at him because he jogged back, and he was never a bolshy rude colt so totally unecessary for the roughing up.
 
Every time I see one of these threads I thank goodness we got our own place. Over the years I have met a few horses I wouldn't have wanted to handle, as not everyone trains their horses to behave in a manner I am comfortable with. When we were at livery I would sometimes bring two of ours in together, do people really expect others to lead a third as well? To suggest that someone who is not happy leading other than their own shouldn't have a horse is ludicrous!
 
Spring Feather said:
I'm just milling over the implications of this practice, based on Owlie's comment above. To everyone who has not considered these implications, imagine the worst case scenario here; someone else is bringing in your horse from the field one night, say the horse freaks for some reason and either runs onto a laneway/road/parking area and collides with a car with passengers in killing a passenger in the process, OR kills the handler. Their next of kin decides to sue you, as owner, for involuntary manslaughter (or whatever the UK term is). That's okay with you all? You'd accept being charged/convicted with that whilst someone else had been handling your horse and inadvertantly killing someone? Sure as heck wouldn't be okay with me.
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'Where theres a blame there a claim' once again!! I doubt anyone would be charged if there horse escaped and killed said person in car or handler. We have horse we all know horses are unpredictable we all take the risks end of, its once of the most dangerous sport if not thee most dangerous sport/hobby in the world and its our choice to have horses as a hobby.

If you are not happy about bringing someone elses horse in then take it up with the yard owner and ask them or a member of staff to bring the lone horse in, the YO will have acceptable insurance to allow a horse to be brought in 'legally'

What a joke!!
 
Thankfully my yard does not have this rule or the one about first up feeds all horses. I am on a DIY yard which is exactly that - Do It Yourself! None of the horses on the yard expect to be fed just because another horse is getting breakfast. Equally none of the horses expect to be brought in because their field mate leaves the field. These rules seem to me to cause more trouble than they are worth! The only time I brought another horse in (at YO request) I received the most horrific verbal abuse.....never again!
 
But It isn't a joke. I choose to have well trained and well mannered horses. I am not putting myself at risk because someone else can't be bothered to train their own horse.

It's nothing to do with being nervous or inexperienced. Those of us who have been around horses for years and have the been there and done that T-shirt, are more aware of the risks than an owner of one single gentle horse on a small yard.
 
Blurr said:
I don't blame you. That comment was completely uncalled for. I think it's a terrible rule and since you've been on that yard for a while without that rule, and very happy, I'd be cross that it changed for what appears to be no reason. Perhaps if someone's horse cannot be left out alone they should make arrangements themselves rather than relying on the goodwill of others to ensure their horse does not pull a tendon or whatever. Maybe horses in pairs so that there's only ever the same horse to bring in with yours and you and the other owner can work out your times etc. Or perhaps the YO/YM can do the honours, with a suitable bill to the last out, it's their rule, after all. There must be some way round it rather than leaving it completely to chance as to who brings in the last horse. As for getting suited, booted and bridled to do the honours, who has the time or inclination? If you're DIY it's to look after your own horse, not someone else's. The same as the rule of 'first one on the yard feeds'. If you don't have that rule the horses soon work out who DOES feed them and ignore everyone else. Being on a yard with either of those rules would drive me nuts!
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Totally agree with this and the ops case the rule just changed out of the blue, that's nuts.

DIY is DIY and we have 36 horses on our yard, no daft rules of this nature exist, the feeding in the morning is a special joke, imagine doing all 36 just because you have to be at work early! We have shared paddocks and my mare can be a little stressy if left so I make sure she's not last, my horse, my problem, if I'm late I phone a friend!
 
Bertolie said:
Thankfully my yard does not have this rule or the one about first up feeds all horses. I am on a DIY yard which is exactly that - Do It Yourself! None of the horses on the yard expect to be fed just because another horse is getting breakfast. Equally none of the horses expect to be brought in because their field mate leaves the field. These rules seem to me to cause more trouble than they are worth! The only time I brought another horse in (at YO request) I received the most horrific verbal abuse.....never again!
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I agree with this. The rule about bringing in would drive me nuts. If someone's horse cant cope with being left on its own then they should make da*n sure they don't put it in that situation and if others are happy left out grazing to make the most of the light then they should be left out
 
Whether or not the 'where there's blame, there's a claim' thing is a joke, isn't really the issue here - personally, I hate the culture of sueing at the drop of a hat, but it exists. It does impact negatively on us and we do need to consider it. I think the OP was asking a perfectly reasonable question. After all, horses are big, powerful, expensive things and can very quickly and very easily do a lot of damage and/or cause serious injury (not meaning to teach granny to suck eggs and all that :) ). It's certainly something I'd want to know if I was asked to regularly do something with someone else's horse/s.
 
WelshD said:
I agree with this. The rule about bringing in would drive me nuts. If someone's horse cant cope with being left on its own then they should make da*n sure they don't put it in that situation and if others are happy left out grazing to make the most of the light then they should be left out
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Couldn't agree more.
 
WelshD said:
I agree with this. The rule about bringing in would drive me nuts. If someone's horse cant cope with being left on its own then they should make da*n sure they don't put it in that situation and if others are happy left out grazing to make the most of the light then they should be left out
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In theory that's fine but on my yard it isn't.
I have 2 horses, a mare and a gelding. This yard keeps the sexes in separate fields.
In winter the owners bring the geldings in around 4 pm. The mares owners bring in anytime from noon to 3 pm. Two women come together and bring in most of the mares for their friends. The remaining owners may arrive anytime during that period.
I have waited some days for 2 hours for the mares to be brought in. I do not want my girl stabled for 18 hours if she can stay out longer, so I wait .
I have paid the YO (£10 extra p/w) to bring her in rather than waste half my life sitting around during the winter months, but if he's not there, the grooms do it and some of them may leave her til last by which time she has become distressed. Other wise, the last livery will bring her in, but by then she's upset. So, I still end up coming and waiting.
 
We don't really have it as a 'rule' on my yard, but if there was a horse left on it's own that is getting upset, it will probably be brought in. However, we are a DIY yard but do have staff so most of the time a member of staff will bring the horse in. It isn't often a problem in summer as they are turned out in large herds, and in winter we have a rota, and again the staff will have arrangements with those that can't get to up to bring in, to make sure horses aren't left on their own if they aren't happy. If the horse is happy alone, they are left, I would be annoyed if it was a 'rule' because my mare is happy on her own and hates being in and she is often turned out alone in winter. I think on a DIY yard it is a very hard rule to enforce, and personally I don't think other DIY liveries should have to be responsible for other peoples horses. I think if there are certain horses who cannot be left alone, the owners of these horses should make arrangements with the other owners who share their field, but otherwise I think if the horses are happy alone, the OP shouldn't be made to have hers brought in by others or to bring other peoples in.
 
Its the sort of rule where there is always someone not happy with or without it.

For me, my horse can't be left out alone and weaves in the stable. I had so much trouble I bought a companion (good excuse for 2nd horse :-) ) and it isn't a worry now.

People tend to work together or around it. For example, rather than bring both mine in I will leave one out to avoid leaving one on its own.

Our YO is quite on top of things though and anyone caught slacking and taking advantage would soon get spoken to.
 
people need to be responsible for providing the level of care the horse they are responsible for needs.

I have worked with horses for over 25yrs, I keep mine at a yard with about 60 stables, I will not feed, turn out, bring in etc for anyone unless they ask me in person, there is only one I do (my cousins) free of charge as we help each other out. In an emergency I will do what is needed of me, being a groom is my job that pays my bills I refuse to do it for free.

there are 2 woman at the yard who have horses that I would class as dangerous when they are not handled correctly on a daily basis-i have previously handled both of them over extended periods of time, after a while they become well behaved and polite horses so the owners take over again and a few weeks later I get them back on my books because behaviour has deteriorated, I now refuse to do them unless I do them permanently, the owners regularly leave them for others to deal with as they are scared of them. since when is that fair?

as for the 'if you are nervous of others horses should you have a horse' comment, I think it is more fitting to say 'if you cannot be responsible for your horses care and meet its needs you should not have one'
 
Good old DIY....some people really don't understand the meaning of it...And yes I have been on yards where this is an unwritten...well, not rule exactly but more left to the devices of each livery. I've had horses belonging to other people that I'd gladly bring in, groom and even put to bed...then there's the ones that are as rude as their owners whom I wouldn't touch with a barge pole, but to say someone shouldn't own a horse if they are not confident in handling other peoples horses is as bad as saying a horse who doesn't like being left out on its own should only be kept on a yard offering assisted livery.
 
Although I have been on several yards with this rule - I do find it frustrating for several reasons
1. if by the nature of your work you are often the last person the person who feels they have to bring your horse in every night may feel put out by this. I can't help that I work till 5 and I made it clear that if she didn't want to fetch my horse in he could be left alone - none the less by the end of the winter she was furious because she 'had' to bring in my horse every day.
2. secondly if I just want to ride for an hour mid day its a pain to bring in other horses to do that and then you have to decide if they have water in the stable and if the owner would want them left with or without hay and what about the feed the owner has left in the stable for 'tonight'? its hard to do the right thing.
3. one yard it was a long walk to the field and one of the horses had terrible in hand manners, plunging about rearing, kicking etc (did it with owner too) - not fun to lead a long way in a headcollar. He was way too tricky to lead in side by side with my own horse so I had to fetch him then go back for my own.

so whilst I understand the rule it can bring its own difficulties
 
dogatemysalad said:
But It isn't a joke. I choose to have well trained and well mannered horses. I am not putting myself at risk because someone else can't be bothered to train their own horse.

It's nothing to do with being nervous or inexperienced. Those of us who have been around horses for years and have the been there and done that T-shirt, are more aware of the risks than an owner of one single gentle horse on a small yard.
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Exactly this. I bring and and turn out for fellow liveries all the time in winter and they do the same for me, I have no problem at all with that. In summer, the horses live out, they can usually see other horses even if all the horses in their field went out on a ride, so I guess we don't have the problem.

However, there are horses on the yard I won't handle because they are too bargey or very spooky and I am not a professional, or a trainer, I am a horse owner on DIY and my own horses are well within my ability, I have nothing to prove and I don't want to be injured by someone else's rank or troubled beast. I bet that if I were to handle a horse and it got away from me and was injured the owner would be all over me like flies on sugar too, no thank you.
 
the other side to this is I do not want all who feel the need to at the yard handling my horse, one of the people that does services at the yard owns one of the dangerous horses, she tries to handle it by feeding it sweeties all the time-my mare would sit someone on their a@@e if they fed her continuous sweets and did not insist on manners.

unless it is an emergency I want my mare left where i put her
 
This rule sounds hideous. I'm clearly so, soooooo lucky where I am. I do believe we're responsible for our own animals and if we can't do what needs to be done, then we make firm arrangements with a specific, reliable person. It all sounds too iffy with this 'yard rule'. The more I read/hear, the more I think I've struck lucky.
 
Blurr said:
I don't blame you. That comment was completely uncalled for. I think it's a terrible rule and since you've been on that yard for a while without that rule, and very happy, I'd be cross that it changed for what appears to be no reason. Perhaps if someone's horse cannot be left out alone they should make arrangements themselves rather than relying on the goodwill of others to ensure their horse does not pull a tendon or whatever. Maybe horses in pairs so that there's only ever the same horse to bring in with yours and you and the other owner can work out your times etc. Or perhaps the YO/YM can do the honours, with a suitable bill to the last out, it's their rule, after all. There must be some way round it rather than leaving it completely to chance as to who brings in the last horse. As for getting suited, booted and bridled to do the honours, who has the time or inclination? If you're DIY it's to look after your own horse, not someone else's. The same as the rule of 'first one on the yard feeds'. If you don't have that rule the horses soon work out who DOES feed them and ignore everyone else. Being on a yard with either of those rules would drive me nuts!
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This.

To all those who say "its no bother"...it is to me. If I have half hour riding time (5min tack up, 20min ride, 5min untack) I don't want my time in the saddle cut in half due to 'only' a 5min walk to the field (and back, so 10min) to bring in another horse or go round 30boxes putting feeds in.

I think the OP is right to be worried about liability too. People (including me) may hate the blame+claim culture, but it *does* exist. No point slating the OP for it, all she wants is to not get sued due to someone else's horses behaviour. The easiest way to achieve that is to not handle other peoples horses.

As for confidence and experience, as long as a person can manage their own horse, where's the problem? I can manage all kinds of difficult horses, but I go to the yard to relax with my own who is well trained and pleasant to be around. I have no desire to get splattered in mud, pulled/shoved around and potentially injured by someone else's unruly or panicking horse. I expect people whose horses can't be left out alone to put them on part livery or make some other arangement so the horse isn't left alone, rather than expecting all the other liveries to take on that responsibility.
 
Carrots&Mints said:
'Where theres a blame there a claim' once again!! I doubt anyone would be charged if there horse escaped and killed said person in car or handler. We have horse we all know horses are unpredictable we all take the risks end of, its once of the most dangerous sport if not thee most dangerous sport/hobby in the world and its our choice to have horses as a hobby.
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The general public does not choose to take the risk though. I can't remember if the car driver was killed or just injured. Mirvahedy versus Henley was the test case. The horses owner was found liable despite there being no negligence on their part.
 
This is simply an issue with yet another badly run yard .
Any YOer who allows a horse on their yard who the owner has no third party cover for is frankly nuts .
I read these threads and I am just so thankful my horses are at home .
 
JennBags said:
She did say she's not comfortable bringing in some of the horses.
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To be fair JB it depends on the other horse, there are a couple on my yard which do require a bit of special handling as one can stand bolt upright, and the other is very handy with her feet (all of them - she's a baggage!). Whilst I could deal with them I wouldn't particularly want to as the chances of me getting hurt are higher.
 
It is quite often a rule on many yards, although tbh I think it needs to be more open.
As to liability, there was a poster on here a while ago, who was probably going to have to sell her horse as she had been off work due to being injured bringing someone else's horse in. The attitude appeared to be she should have cover in place to make sure she could still pay her bills if she was injured. Personally, while I am happy to handle other people's horses, (I work with them) and do have reasonable insurance, I can understand why many people are not happy to do so.
I have also known it to be abused by people, and can understand why people get fed up.
 
As I am nearly always last to the yard, I have a permanent arrangement in the winter that the owner of my horse's fieldmate brings him in. She also poo picks and checks the water. In return, I turn hers out in the morning, muck him out and hay in the field. We are DIY but this sort of co-operation is invaluable. In the summer they are out 24/7 and if one is out of the field working or being fed, the other has to put up with it.

However, I am confident handling her horse and she is happy with mine. Both can forget their manners on occasions but neither is particularly difficult and neither is likely to bog off further than the nearest patch of long grass.

There are horses in the world that I would not want to be responsible for. I would be concerned that I might not be able to hang on to them or prevent an accident and would not, therefore, be happy with any assumption that I would be willing to turn out or bring in.

This is not because I am a wimp or incapable of dealing with difficult horses - indeed, I handle the YO's 17.2 (or more) mare who is known to stand straight up on occasions - but because I am self-employed and if I get injured I cannot work and therefore cannot pay the mortgage or the livery. I don't think it is anything to do with capability but more to do with self preservation and the concern that either the horse or someone else might be injured.

Yes, I am willing to handle the YO's mare because the YO trusts my judgement and knows I would take a view on whether I could handle her safely in any given situation. She would also be perfectly happy if I said that I hadn't brought xx in because she was being a monster but had left something out to keep her company until she arrived to handle her herself.

This rule is one that I do understand, having seen distressed horses out on their own, but if you are not happy with it, please discuss it with the YO. There may well be a compromise somewhere. For example, some horses settle with hay in the field so perhaps instead of bringing in, you could bung an armful of hay in until the owner arrives.
 
Carrots&Mints said:
I don't understand why everything has to involve legalities or insurance etc, at my yard if theres one horse left out when your bringing yours in you bring it in as well, the horse being insured 3rd party has never even crossed my mind, you just do it.

Todays culture of 'where there's a blame there's a claim' is beyond a joke
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Because if the horse/a n other person/ property gets hurt/damaged, you can bet your @** they will be seeking compo from the person handling the horse....
 
zaminda said:
It is quite often a rule on many yards, although tbh I think it needs to be more open.
As to liability, there was a poster on here a while ago, who was probably going to have to sell her horse as she had been off work due to being injured bringing someone else's horse in. The attitude appeared to be she should have cover in place to make sure she could still pay her bills if she was injured. Personally, while I am happy to handle other people's horses, (I work with them) and do have reasonable insurance, I can understand why many people are not happy to do so.
I have also known it to be abused by people, and can understand why people get fed up.
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Liability would not cover the example above .
 
KittyG1980 said:
Morning

I am just after a bit of advice - we have kept our horse on a DIY livery yard in Northumberland for the past few of months and other than the usual yard politics it has all been fine. However, last night a sign has gone up to say that horses are no longer allowed to be left out in the filed on their own and that if i bring my horse in and leave one out on its own I would be kicked off the yard!

One of the reasons we moved there is because we were told our horse would be fine to be left out on his own (he is perfectly happy to be left and just calmly grazes until we bring him in). The bringing in other peoples horses also brings up all sorts of liability issues as if I am bringing someone else's horse and it panics / kicks / gets injured then where do i stand as i was moving it at the time - as it is a DIY yard there are no staff on site to help and not all of the horses have liability insurance.

I am happy to help people out but I own one horse and if i wanted more than I would get one. Does anyone else know where we would stand on this?

Cheers

K
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Not reading other post.

I think that is a bit strong to put up a sign without warning or notifying owners of this.


Would should have happened is the Y/O or Y/M should have verbally told each and everyone of their intentions and say you have a months notice of this going to happen so people can put a plan in place.

Its wrong to put a notice up without pre warning / notifying people.



As for you get kicked off the yard - that too is strong expecting an owner to risk leading a strange horse in when they may not know that horse for fear of being kicked off.
 
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So many posters say this is normal etc etc.

But still bad practice to put a sign up without some sort of time frame where liveries can work out a system between them. Its one thing if the rule is always there but to put one up without telling them is wrong on the yards part.
 
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