Livery Yard that make money!

My friends livery yard just gets by... but about a year ago they invested in cattle they go to the market and buy cattle at about 250 each as they are only weeks old and then they keep them in a spare barn and feed them the left over hay and then about 6 months down the line they then sell them on for 2000 each at the market so they don't have to deal with all of the slaughter regulations... I couldn't believe it and then they go back and get another bunch of calf's and start all over again.

This is just something at the side of her DIY livery yard and it seems to be working well :)
(The numbers are realistic as that's what she sold the last bunch for)

Thanks Jon
 
cm2581 said:
Tack room for saddles and bridles (1 peg per stable), feed room (max 2 bins per stable) and 2 pallets per stable. People store their rugs over pallets. That's it. That ain't a lot of storage! A lot of places would only offer outside storage for bedding aswell.
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I would never move to a yard with that little storage!!!
 
I pay £98 a week full livery.This includes 2 hard feeds, adlib haylage in my case,4 bales of bedding per month (you can have more but have to pay for it) one tack clean per week,bringing in, taking out, holding for vet etc. and rug changes as necessary.A daily groom and exercise 7 days a week, can be riding lunging or horse walker.We have a coffee room, horse walker and large out door menage.Free trailer/van parking.Think it is good value and turnout usually good.One place charged £65 per week for use of all facilities and staff time etc but you bought your own feed/hay/bedding.Thought that was a good idea.
 
T-Bag said:
How do you do it?

In the real world, the cost of livery would be much higher, but livery is still one of those things people just don't like to pay for.

So for those of you that have a heathy balance sheet at the end of the month, how do you do it?

:)
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OOOOh ha..ha..ha..ha..ha..ha..ha..OOOOh..ha..ha..ha..ha...ha...ha...oh dear..dashes tears of larfter from eyes...livery yard=unhealthy bank balance...but you do meet some nice people and horses:)
Bryndu
 
I am on part livery - I would assume the YO is making money out of us or there would be no point in carrying on!, I have a friend who has set up her own yard and she has invested a huge amount to get the yard to the standard she wants it but has the background to know she needs to ring around for her bedding/feed/forage and negotiate for the best price. You could run a spreadsheet and quickly work out what you would make on a full yard, how many liveries you could "afford" to lose but I would think that with DIY there is a lot less profit to go round.
 
I am amazed at some of these prices - I pay £40 per week per horse (hay and straw included if I want them) DIY and am on one of the cheapest yards in the area.

If my YO rented out every box at that rate they would make a living wage for one person, possibly two...but they will never make a fortune
 
I basically make enough money to cover cost of running the yard and keeping my two horses, to be honest I'm in a lucky position where I don't need to make a wage, I wasn't working before buying the yard and can afford the mortgage without making any money from the yard, anything I make is pocket money for me and I see it as a bonus :-)

Can sympathise with those who are trying to make a decent living out of it, it is extremely hard work, especially in the tough winter months, and there are sp many hidden costs to running a yard that most people don't even realise, I'm constantly forking out money for repairs constantly!

The deal me and hubby have is that as long as the yard is paying for itself, my horses and covering the cost of the nanny so I get to play down there all day, then we will rub it as a business, if it starts to run as a loss then the liveries will go and I'll keep it for private use
 
jon1210 said:
My friends livery yard just gets by... but about a year ago they invested in cattle they go to the market and buy cattle at about 250 each as they are only weeks old and then they keep them in a spare barn and feed them the left over hay and then about 6 months down the line they then sell them on for 2000 each at the market so they don't have to deal with all of the slaughter regulations... I couldn't believe it and then they go back and get another bunch of calf's and start all over again.

This is just something at the side of her DIY livery yard and it seems to be working well :)
(The numbers are realistic as that's what she sold the last bunch for)

Thanks Jon
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I would like to know what sort of cattle are selling for £2K a head at 6-7 months old... especially when bought for £250;)
 
I used to run a competition/livery yard

We had 5 DIY stables - ad lib hay and bedding and luckily had people who respected the system. Own tackroom. I fed the entire yard in the morning, inc the DIYs but otherwise left them to their own devices.

We had 12 further stables - 2 part liveries - on which I "made" £35/wk each (I did everything for them except ride) and the rest were rides/schooling liveries/my own.

The DIYs were lovely people and nice horses but I made no money out of them, and they cost me in wear and tear to the property. The only liveries which kept me in profit were the schooling ones - and not even those if I actually costed in my time. (I worked out once, I was earning £2.50 on one particular horse every time I rode it.......)

My income - from teaching, schooling and competing - just about covered costs, profit came when I sold a horse of my own.

I was based at my parents' place, so no rent, no mortgage - no way I could've made any money if I'd had those outgoings too.
 
jon1210 said:
I will let you know what they are when i go to see her why do you think these prices are over estimated??

Jon
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those are TOP prices paid for continentals (the most expensive) at Newark on the 1st Dec
STORE CATTLE REPORT
A very decent entry although several consignments not forward due to the weather.

Trade for quality cattle was exceptional although secondary sorts were more difficult to place.

Breed Age Bulls Steers Heifers_______________
Top Top Top
(£) (£) (£)
Simmental 17 months £800.00
___________________________________________________________________________
Limousin 12 months £595.00 £775.00 £700.00
13 months £750.00 £700.00
18 months £795.00
Blonde 8 months £560.00 £465.00
British Blue 10 months £750.00 £560.00
14 months £890.00


ETS - I can quote Melton as well, if you are interested, but the bottom line is, that even TOP, TOP beast, don't make more than £600 at 6-7 month old and more often than not are in the region of £400.
Unless we are talking breeders, and then you need pedigree stock.
 
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martlin said:
those are TOP prices paid for continentals (the most expensive) at Newark on the 1st Dec
STORE CATTLE REPORT
A very decent entry although several consignments not forward due to the weather.

Trade for quality cattle was exceptional although secondary sorts were more difficult to place.

Breed Age Bulls Steers Heifers_______________
Top Top Top
(£) (£) (£)
Simmental 17 months £800.00
___________________________________________________________________________
Limousin 12 months £595.00 £775.00 £700.00
13 months £750.00 £700.00
18 months £795.00
Blonde 8 months £560.00 £465.00
British Blue 10 months £750.00 £560.00
14 months £890.00


ETS - I can quote Melton as well, if you are interested, but the bottom line is, that even TOP, TOP beast, don't make more than £600 at 6-7 month old and more often than not are in the region of £400.
Unless we are talking breeders, and then you need pedigree stock.
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I will speak to her when I next go down about this and I am sorry that my post is pointless now :( :mad:
 
I sincerely hope that the liveries (DIY/full or part) take in what we YO's are up against re costs and begin to appreciate us a wee bit more! I have been told that I don't charge 'enough' for what I offer!!!!! I have no hidden charges and everything is included (rugging, turning out/in, blacksmith/vet, worming, I also poo pick every day and all fields are fertilized, harrowed and rotated during the summer. What more can I offer?
PS, am seriously thinking of closing shop-not worth the hassle and stress.
 
I make a small profit but we are lucky enough to own our own land with no mortgage. I offer DIY livery for £80 per cal month incl Haylage and straw. Have never had to restrict the amount of hay/straw used. I also offer full or part livery & rent out unused land to the local farmer so this helps push us it into profit.

I am hoping to improve facilities over the next few years - a school and a few more stables. This will have to be funded privately, but hopefully will be made back, albeit v-e-r-y slowly:D
 
jon1210 said:
I will let you know what they are when i go to see her why do you think these prices are over estimated??

Jon
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Yep - by about 150%!

I pulled this report off FWI: store cattle prices HAVE strengthened this year - but not THAT much.

"AHDB said the average price for black and white 18 month-old steers was little changed compared with a year ago at £611 per head in Q1 2010, but 18 month-old Continental-cross steers increased in value by 6% to average £792 per head. Two-year-old Continental steers were up 3% on the year to average £856 per head.

"The shortage of store cattle was also evident with heifers resulting in higher prices at auction. 18-month old Hereford-cross heifers averaged £513 per head in the first quarter of 2010, four per cent up on year earlier levels. Continental-cross heifers of the same age increased in value by eight per cent year on year to average £706."

Prices for two year-old Continental heifers increased by 4% to average £745 per head."
 
T-Bag said:
Well I'm sure some do, which is why I'm asking, but it could more likely like many livery clients you don't understand the true cost of keeping a yard!
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I'm sure quite a few do not,but some (thinking more crowded areas ) do make a killing.
The full livery yard I worked at for example,was a 40 box yard,all full livery at £150 per week plus VAT,£10 for a member of staff to work your horse( that would be the working pupils lesson sorted ;) )one bale of hemp bedding a week(any more used cost £7 a bale) and that was 10 years ago! :o

Combine those prices with a skelington staff and a YO who made it "difficult" for clients to have lessons with anyone from outside and there was a very easy profit made.....
 
We do! And a pretty healthy profit too after wages.

I have 23 DIYers and 7 Part liveries. Plus we do services for the DIYs. All liveries buy forage and bedding from us.

The HUGE difference is if you rent or own. We own (own 2 farms) ours.

Also we have a rule that all lights must be turned off when not in use and if you're last person to leave yard you turn them all off..........never have them left on now. And our lights are very low energy sodium lights NO strip lights or white instant lights that cost a fortune to run.

I know of someone with a 12 stable yard and pays £22,000 per year in rent!
 
Oh also never do an all inclusive livery unless doing bespoke full livery. Even our Part liveries buy their own hay and bedding from us (have 1 bale of flax included per week in price, but that's it!).

Doing an all inclusive for DIYs is a recipe for disaster!!!
 
I'm involved in my friends livery/dealing yard.
She has two full and 3 part liveries which just covers the rent, her own horses have sharers which covers the feed and worming costs for all the horses. All profits from dealing stock and additional freelance work are currently paying for hay bills and shoeing.
So through the winter both her and her partner work 8/10 hour days 7 days a week and are running at a big loss at the moment.
 
This thread has been so good! I keep thinking of leaving work and doing livery, but I was working it all out last week, and decided I could get any old poxy job at Tesco and still earn more, with half the commitment and exhaustion in winter (also though about it as I was defrosting water buckets for my own for the last two weeks, and wading through snowdrifts!)

As for the person who doesn't understand why DIYs and grass liveries don't make money - think insurance, rolling, harrowing, toppping and re-seeding fields, creosoting fences and stables, concreting yards, maintaining gate and fences...
 
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coen said:
Wow I am obviously in the wrong area, every yard I have been to has ended up costing lots so I would find it hard to see how they didn't make a healthy profit
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Me too! if you saw our YOs house & land you would understand why lol, but then i doubt our yard speaks for the majority- and they are so good to us, facilities are amazing and we all get on so well (there are about 30 liveries) i think the fact that our YO is not under too much pressure money-wise there is a more relaxed overall feeling et the yard. Im sure this is not the case for most YOs, & i must say my YO does hardly any work at all over the summer as they have a girl who is employed to do all the yard chores.
 
MillionDollar said:
We do! And a pretty healthy profit too after wages.

I have 23 DIYers and 7 Part liveries. Plus we do services for the DIYs. All liveries buy forage and bedding from us.

The HUGE difference is if you rent or own. We own (own 2 farms) ours.

Also we have a rule that all lights must be turned off when not in use and if you're last person to leave yard you turn them all off..........never have them left on now. And our lights are very low energy sodium lights NO strip lights or white instant lights that cost a fortune to run.

I know of someone with a 12 stable yard and pays £22,000 per year in rent!
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yes MillionDollar i think that makes a huge difference. Our yard owners have extensive farms & land and make their own hay/straw which is included in the £200 per month we pay for assisted livery. I can only imagine how expensive it must be if you have to rent fields etc!
 
tangoharvey said:
cant believe its not money making - our yard chardges 17 quid for grazing and 25 for a stable, but you get your own shavings etc, you can buy hay off the yard for 28 quid a round but its your hay if you waste it! there is about 30 liveries..I am not brill at maths, but I wish I could turn that much over in a week!
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As an ex boss used to say to me 'Turnover is vanity, profit is sanity'

If they have a mortgage on the property, have it registered and insured as a business and keep it well maintained I doubt they are making much.
 
eahotson said:
I pay £98 a week full livery.This includes 2 hard feeds, adlib haylage in my case,4 bales of bedding per month (you can have more but have to pay for it) one tack clean per week,bringing in, taking out, holding for vet etc. and rug changes as necessary.A daily groom and exercise 7 days a week, can be riding lunging or horse walker.We have a coffee room, horse walker and large out door menage.Free trailer/van parking.Think it is good value and turnout usually good.One place charged £65 per week for use of all facilities and staff time etc but you bought your own feed/hay/bedding.Thought that was a good idea.
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WOW that's a good price for full livery including exercise.
 
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My girl is on a yard that only offers full livery and I hope YOs are making some money because they work so hard. They run weekly competitions for SJ, Dressage, Showing and Arena Eventing, have a lovely cafe and keep the place well maintained. I never have to worry about my girl and she's settled and happy because she's got a routine that suits her. :)
 
Wow, I never knew times were so tough for livery yards!
Is this based on literally JUST livery? I know the sales market is suffering too but i know a few dealers who get a pretty good turnover.

Though, there's yards round here that I've thought are ridiculous prices (£50 p/w only including bedding and no facilities just stable and turnout) but looking at these responses now I know why!
 
I haven't read every thread but do YOs not find that when they offer straw & hay/haylage in with the price that there is a lot of wastage or greed in its use? Human nature being what it is many people, when offered something for free, will abuse it. On the yard I am on we pay for stable & grazing but have to provide our own hay/haylage & bedding. When owners have to do this they are a little more frugal with its use. :)
 
Toby_Zaphod said:
I haven't read every thread but do YOs not find that when they offer straw & hay/haylage in with the price that there is a lot of wastage or greed in its use? Human nature being what it is many people, when offered something for free, will abuse it. On the yard I am on we pay for stable & grazing but have to provide our own hay/haylage & bedding. When owners have to do this they are a little more frugal with its use. :)
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Yes, and that's one of the reasons I don't offer DIY livery. Horses get fed ad lib hay/haylage, but I do it, so I make sure that whilst they have enough, nothing gets wasted. As to the bedding, I include 1 bale per week in price and an occasional (no more than once a month) additional bale, if they need more, they get charged more.
But still, no matter how tight a ship you run, the profit margins just aren't there, really.
I have it a bit easier than some, with lower Business Rates, good combined (with farm) insurance and a flock of sheep/herd of cattle to eat the wasted forage. It still costs me £16 per week to just rent a stable out, then there is all the maintenance, forage, bedding, labour (minimum wage my bottom), water, electricity, etc, etc. Then we can start mentioning capital costs - buy the property, put the stables in, fence the paddocks, build an arena, horsewalker, bits and bobs...
I do it, because a) I like it (bizarrely) b) if I didn't, I might just have to go and find a proper job and c) there is no way my OH would buy a horsewalker or 60x45m arena for my pleasure - tis all for the liveries, I'll have you know ;)
 
Toby_Zaphod said:
I haven't read every thread but do YOs not find that when they offer straw & hay/haylage in with the price that there is a lot of wastage or greed in its use? Human nature being what it is many people, when offered something for free, will abuse it. On the yard I am on we pay for stable & grazing but have to provide our own hay/haylage & bedding. When owners have to do this they are a little more frugal with its use. :)
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Not all owners! I use no more hay and bedding on my current yard than when I had to buy it all in and store it, in fact I think there is less wastage in my bit of the yard than the rest which are all ponies owned by the riding school and done by the YO and staff. Although staw is included two of my stables are down to shavings/chopped straw which I buy in, and get no discount for not using the bedding provided. (my paddock is better managed too!)
 
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