Livery yards and winter turnout?

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willowblack

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Morning all!

Our YO closes the fields during winter and turnout is confined to indoor school or one field, they go out for an hour a day give or take because they are rotated.

I have been there for 3 years, only went temporarily because I accidentally acquired too many ponies for the 2 and a bit acre field we have at home 😜 And have never used a livery yard before then.

Is this common place at livery yards?

Thank you x X
 
I think it depends on whereabouts you are in the country. I grew up in the NE and there were no yards that restricted turnout, it was considered cruel to confine horses unless under veterinary care.

However I now live in the NW and have never known restrictions like it, one yard I know actually closes the fields for 9, yes 9, months of the year!!!!
But it also seems accepted over here, by the liveries and so the YO don't bother to offer any alternatives.
 
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No, and I wouldn't keep a horse anywhere with those rules unless I was working it really hard (like hunting 4 times a week hard).

I have been at two livery yards in recent years. One had seperate small winter turnout paddocks for each horse which were completely trashed and then rolled, reseeded etc in the spring. They turned out all year, but did close the fields for a day or two in very bad weather with turnout in an outdoor school or on the path to the fields (which was surfaced) for an hour or two.

The second was at a farm and had plenty of good turnout all year around with the paddocks only getting a bit muddy at field gateways.
 
I don't think it's uncommon but it is cruel. You wouldn't keep a dog locked in a cage all day why on earth would you do it to a horse!?

I don't accept when people say they have no choice, if you can't look after a horse properly then don't have one.
 
We are a small yard and have less land than horses, our land is VERY well maintained and we have loads of grass. I would NEVER restrict my horses turnout so I could rest the fields as I don't need too as I always have two resting at anyone time. IF and that is a big IF the land by some miracle stops coping then I would get rid of a livery or two.

We have been told we have one of the best grazing around and I do not want our reputation to get to "oh don't go there their grazing is cr4p "
A field is a normal place for a horse to stretch his legs - eat- snooze and have fun. Sorry I would find somewhere else.


If this yard is worried about their grazing , then they ought to sit down and work out why it is not coping . If it is the owner does not like fields getting trashes, then maybe they should think if a yard is what they want as winter does trash it to a degree but it bounces backs after a few months
 
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junglefairy said:
I don't think it's uncommon but it is cruel. You wouldn't keep a dog locked in a cage all day why on earth would you do it to a horse!?

I don't accept when people say they have no choice, if you can't look after a horse properly then don't have one.
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Going to be a lot of horses going off for slaughter then because there's just not enough land attached to many livery stables to turnout all year round .
It's only going to get worse , we need to build lots and lots of housing and the parcels of land near to towns that make up many livery stables are going to get swallowed up by building .
Land close to towns is going to get more and more valuable and it's will get harder and harder to find livery close to population centres.
 
What I have found with the yards that close the turnout, is that they also have next to no maintenance of the fields. I realise that it can be expensive but I can't be the only one who would be happy to pay higher livery for more turnout!!

I wonder what would happen if DEFRA and RSPCA etc enforced the 5 freedoms!!??
 
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I'm hoping ponies will come home very soon, house building is finished and stables are in progress now!

I've also acquired another field next door which is 5 acres and sloped so stays very dry during the winter.

We are in a very rural area but with not many livery yards at all.
 
Nativelover said:
I wonder what would happen if DEFRA and RSPCA etc enforced the 5 freedoms!!??
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I wonder that too. From the DEFRA Code of Practice for the Welfare of Horses, Ponies, Donkeys and their Hybrids:

3.1 Horses and ponies require adequate exercise, or freedom to exercise and this will require time and effort from the horse owner or keeper. Most stabled horses will benefit from daily turnout in the field to allow them to graze and socialise with other horses. This may have the added benefit of
alleviating the risk of stable vices. If turnout is not feasible, stabled horses should receive appropriate exercise daily, unless contrary to veterinary advice.

4.1 Horses are herd animals and prefer to live in social groups. Ideally they should be socialised with members of their own species but, where this is not possible, other animals may be used to provide company.

I guess it depends on interpretation (is an hour in a school "daily turnout in the field to allow them to graze and socialise with other horses", or "appropriate exercise daily"), but I would say that if a horse kept at a yard with these rules was not on veterinary recommended box rest and was not being exercised every day, or a youngster or retired horse was being kept there, then they would be in breach of the Animal Act for the "need to be able to exhibit normal behaviour patterns". Depending on the layout of the stables and whether the turnout was in pairs, they may also be in breach of the "need to be housed with, or apart, from other animals".
 
junglefairy said:
I don't think it's uncommon but it is cruel. You wouldn't keep a dog locked in a cage all day why on earth would you do it to a horse!?

I don't accept when people say they have no choice, if you can't look after a horse properly then don't have one.
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Interesting comment. This is fairly common practice at yards near me. We have turnout in a sand paddock and also free use of a horsewalker as well as a floodlit all weather arena to try and compensate and provide some options.

I sometimes have to work away so I need to be on a yard that can care for my horse when I'm away. The yards that offer this round me all restrict turnout as we are flat low lying land which is liable to become very wet, very fast.

So my options are:

Manage with the facilities provided
Rent a field and abandon my horse when I work away or am stuck in a late meeting, also give up competing or riding over winter due to no facilities.
Sell my horse, probably to someone local who may or may not keep him at either of the above 2 options
Convince my OH to sell our house and move to a different area
PTS
 
I've never been to a yard without winter turnout and nor would I move to one. My current yard used to be good for winter turnout but has since increased in liveries and decreased in fields. We now have a rule that all horses come in at 2pm everyday to save the fields, even 12 if it's very wet. There is no option to turn out in school as it has no gates, and the sheer amount of horses means they'd hardly be out. The 2pm bring In is not feasible at the weekends and I'm looking to move. New yard has turnout until you want to bring in , obviously with reason, not 9 at night ! They get out in all weathers , if the fields have really gone to muck they go in a specially made hard standing area.
 
I don't think you can say it's always cruel to keep a horse without turnout .
I think it's less than ideal .
However you must provide lots of exercise if horses are kept without turnout.
It's a huge commitment for the owner and very difficult to do if you work unless you have help during the day .
If a yard has turnout pens and a walker and the horse is exercised properly you can give them what they need .
And some turnout I see is terrible just small mud filled paddocks that don't provide what a horse needs in terms of exercise either.
Retired and not in work young horses need decent turnout in large fields to have quality of life IMO .
 
Goldenstar said:
Retired and not in work young horses need decent turnout in large fields to have quality of life IMO .
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I agree with this comment which is one of the reasons if I ever got another horse I specifically wouldn't buy an unbroken baby and when my current horse reaches retirement I know I will need to look further afield and maybe at some full or retirement livery options out of the area. But fingers crossed this is a long way off as he's only 10!
 
To me it says "We are overstocked but want to take your money anyway and we don't spend any of that money on maintaining our land".
Lets face it you can build plenty of buildings to house animals but you can't create more land, the stocking rate should be governed by the acreage not the number of stables.
 
JillA said:
To me it says "We are overstocked but want to take your money anyway and we don't spend any of that money on maintaining our land".
Lets face it you can build plenty of buildings to house animals but you can't create more land, the stocking rate should be governed by the acreage not the number of stables.
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Yes it should but the reality is that livery would then be way more expensive .
Probably about two thirds more .
 
agree totally with GS, its not ideal but can be done well with a lot of effort. I would rather the horse was in full work with some company in a decent pen/school regularly (over the winter) than hock deep in mud in 1/4 acre which I have seen. In that extremely wet winter recently we all just did our best though!

I don't have enough land for my lot in the winter, its very wet here, so I rent extra. They are still in their summer field as it had plenty of grass. End of November though, they go onto their winter hill-not as big as last years but still 10 acres for two ponies and a small horse.
 
My yard has winter and summer paddocks. It is up to the owners to decide whether the horses go out and we are all aware that the paddocks will be trashed after a bit of wet weather.

I always turn my horse out regardless of weather as he is much happier out even if it is a mud pit.

To some degree I think it depends on the temperament of the horse to what you can get away with, but I definitely wouldn't be able (or want) to keep mine on a yard without turnout. Turnout is so important
 
I have never been on a yard that does not have all year round turnout, however I am in the South and it probably rains less is easier to main the winter grazing.

I do agree that with what someone has said earlier about a lot of yards near cities and towns closing and becoming developed on for housing, so more people will be needing to keep horses further from home on part or full livery because there are no options near their homes or more rural yards can offer more turnout.
 
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When I lived near London, the turnout was poor to non existent. I could not be persuaded to move back in that direction as the lack of land doesn't suit the way I keep my horses. I now live in the west country, and some yards do seem to restrict turnout massively, although I have never kept my horse on one as it isn't my way of doing things.
I do feel that people need to take the happiness and well being of their horses more into consideration, they are herd animals that are best off out.
 
I personally think that decent daily turnout is very important. However it doesn't have to be on grass and I would be happy with a proper all weather turnout area with water tough and hay feeder. A quick spin on a horsewalker or a run around the school while being mucked out is not good enough IMO.
 
For me turnout is my absolute number 1 priority for the wellbeing of my horse and I have recently moved to a new yard to improve winter turnout.

With the current run of wet and windy weather the horses have only been having around 6 hours turnout a day, but to be honest they are happy to come in for some hay when the weather is miserable. On a nice day they will be out by 8 and in by dusk. I summer they can stay out 24/7.

Current yard has 15 horses and 30 acres so 2 acres per horse on average. Previous yard had half the land and double the horses, although there was a walker and yo allowed turn out in the school horse was only getting 2 to 3 hours turn out in the school in winter.

I gave up off road hacking to give my horse what she needs. Horses need time to be horses in my opinion. If a horse spends 20 plus hours a day in a stable, and a couple of hours either being ridden / on horse walker etc when do they have time to spend time being a horse?
 
It is quite common round here - combination of very high land prices and pressure for development plus heavy clay which doesn't stand up well to wet weather. I choose to make it my priority when looking for yards and will compromise on other aspects. Where turnout has been restricted mine really don't seem to cope very well and get very stressed. If you didn't know them you might put it down to them being TBs and naturally sharp and excitable but as long as they get time out every day with other horses they really aren't.
 
Mine are out 24/7 (at home) - 5 under 15h and 16 acres.

As the grazing gets poorer I feed hay in the field and I only bring in if they have been out for more than 48 hours in persisting rain, and even then it is just for a few hours to dry off and have an snooze.

I've gone about things slightly differently to 'normal' - I rent out my house and rent a property with land to live in. I'd rather pay the extra 'rent' to live in a nice house in the country and manage the horses as I wish, than pay the rent to a yard owner. It works out the same cost in this setup as it would for me to have one on part livery and me living in the town. And that's not even factoring in fuel costs and travel time.
 
JillA said:
To me it says "We are overstocked but want to take your money anyway and we don't spend any of that money on maintaining our land".
Lets face it you can build plenty of buildings to house animals but you can't create more land, the stocking rate should be governed by the acreage not the number of stables.
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I agree!

I think that livery yards should HAVE to be licensed in the same way as RS. Yes, it would put some people off taking liveries but tbh, that might not be a bad thing. Some YO really shouldn't be looking after other people's horses. And yes, some horse-owners might sell up but imo it is far too easy to just buy a horse/pony with very little knowledge/experience and stick it on livery with somone who knows little more.
 
I am cruel my horse is at a livery yard where winter turnout is an all weather arena., and a stint in the walker daily.

No the yard is not overstocked, yes the fields are maintained and pooh picked, and yes the ground is incredibly clay so gets poached very quickly .

And just before turnout in the fields ceases and the grass has dropped to be honest most of the horses after an hour stand at the entrance waiting to come in!
 
i think sometimes there has to be some compromise. mine are out 24/7 8 months of the year, however for 4 months of the year they are out between 2 and 6 hours daily with company, depending on how wet it is. they get out every day but not for long but that then allows the fields to survive the worst months so they are in good condition for the 8 months they are out all the time.
it takes a lot of time and money to maintain good pasture so for me as long as they are out for a bit each day im prepared to compromise for 16 weeks of the year. im on heavy clay so if i let them trash it the summer grazing would be affected. mine are calm and happy going out for a few hours to socialise, the fields are not trashed so they eat whilst out rather than hoon around in deep sticky mud.
 
lannerch said:
And just before turnout in the fields ceases and the grass has dropped to be honest most of the horses after an hour stand at the entrance waiting to come in!
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This is an excuse everyone seems to trot out when they have horses that spend lots of time in the stables. The horses don't "want" to be out. Maybe if they are standing in mud in a tiny paddock with no grass and no hay put in, then yes they will "want" to come in as they associate it with coming in and being fed hay or hard feed as assume most don't leave a horse standing in with no forage. But with sufficient space and something to eat, most horses won't choose to come in. I have 6 horses on 12 acres, they have grazed it all summer so they will move to winter grazing soon. They still have grass in it and they are fed a bale of hay a day up the top of the field, well away from the gate. They are out 8-10 hours a day and not once will you see them standing at the gateway to come in until they are called at night. They move around a lot, pick at the grass or up at the hay bale and as a result are super chilled out and actually get to be "horses". Too many yards have not enough turnout for the number of horses they have. In my eyes it's cruel. If I came on here and said I shut my dog up for 22 hours a day in a room I would get abuse heaped upon me. Not sure what makes it ok to do it to a horse whose very nature means it needs space to move around and other animals to socialise with. Too many people put their own needs before their horses sadly.
 
Daily turnout is a basic requirement and i don't understand why people settle for no turnout for months. Our land is clay based and is currently turing into mud in places but i wouldn't dream of keeping her in for days unless it snows heavy like it did a few years ago. I have one horse and 10 sheep on 4 acres, soon to be 2 horses come January. Too many yards have not enough land for the amount of horses, its becoming more about how much money they can get rather than the welfare of the horses.
 
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