Livery yards being closed, banned from seeing our horses

[Gingerwitch]

Could one of your yard friends not send you pics & updates on your pony? That's how I am surviving at the moment. I live for my little photo message to tell me he's fine.

Hi Daves Man, I don't really know anyone who is DIY on the yard as i pretty much keep myself to myself and only see them in passing, as not having to muck out or do waters or hay you don't tend to build up relationships except for a high and a bye. The ones I hack out with are in the same boat as me as we are full liveries.

 

[Dyllymoo]

So whilst I have not had issues at current yard up to now, I am pretty stressed, especially as the DIY's are still being allowed up, it begs the question why? Is it because they are scimping on services or feed or bedding etc

Because that has been the recommendation given by BHS in line with the Government guidelines (https://www.bhs.org.uk/advice-and-information/coronavirus-covid-19).

Taking out the fact that the DIY liveries are riding, they are sole carers for the animals. As your horse is on full livery he/ she is cared for by the staff of the yard.

Unfortunately that is the black and white version. Whether its fair or not, or whether you agree with it or not, its how it is. I can imagine yards with mixed liveries is harder to manage than a yard that has all full livery or all diy.

 

[Gingerwitch]

I understand why it's difficult for you. I also can't see mine at the moment and it's horrible. But it's not about being being tight and scrimping for those on DIY. It's about people genuinely not being able to afford it in most cases. I can afford full livery but I choose to be DIY because I know I would end up going every day to do things my way, which sort of defeats the purpose.

Hi, no you have mis understood what i was saying - what I am asking is -are the Full Liverys being banned as the yard is scrimping on bedding, hay and feed for the full liveries ? not the DIY's scrimping.

 

[ihatework]

Hi, no you have mis understood what i was saying - what I am asking is -are the Full Liverys being banned as the yard is scrimping on bedding, hay and feed for the full liveries ? not the DIY's scrimping.

It must be very stressful having so much distrust in your yard. In your shoes I think I’d try and find alternative yard that you do trust

 

[Gingerwitch]

Hi Ihatework, where money and care is concerned i distrust everyone. Horses cannot speak, they cannot tell you what is or is not happening, when they are on Full Livery the yard is open and they have no idea when the owner will turn up.

 

[be positive]

Hi, no you have mis understood what i was saying - what I am asking is -are the Full Liverys being banned as the yard is scrimping on bedding, hay and feed for the full liveries ? not the DIY's scrimping.

Turn this around and consider what the staff would be doing if they also had the DIY's to do each day they would be rushing about more than normal and things may be missed, shortcuts may be taken, assuming the yard is being run as normal, same staff, same income then why should the YO risk ruining a decent business by scrimping now, it should be easy enough to request a weekly report and photo of the horse without a rug on, if you think they are not trustworthy and that will be fixed then look for somewhere else and do them yourself.

 

[SOS]

I’d never keep my horses somewhere I didn’t trust the staff/YO. Having had mine on full livery for a long time I have seen some bad but mostly good. And the majority of the ‘bad’ was horses not being cared for to an owners standard I.e not changing rugs etc. So not huge welfare issues more personal preference.

Why would they be caring any differently to the horses now? I feel confident I trust my YO enough and pay a reasonable enough amount that corners don’t need to be cut. My YO is also proud of all their full liveries and wouldn’t like to see any horses coming out of all this anything but in good condition, well looked after and ready for the owner.

 

[SpringArising]

Hi, no you have mis understood what i was saying - what I am asking is -are the Full Liverys being banned as the yard is scrimping on bedding, hay and feed for the full liveries ? not the DIY's scrimping.

Ah I see. I agree with IHW - I really think you need to find a yard you trust or learn how to trust that your horses aren't being abused or neglected. Those on full livery will have been banned as they're not the sole carer of the horse and already had a system in place which means they don't NEED to be at the stables.

 

[sport horse]

Hi Ihatework, where money and care is concerned i distrust everyone. Horses cannot speak, they cannot tell you what is or is not happening, when they are on Full Livery the yard is open and they have no idea when the owner will turn up.

As it seems you distrust everyone I think you would be better to find yourself a yard where you could be alone and just do your own horse. Your total distrust that runs throughout this thread is very sad - it seems to apply to multiple yards and maybe it comes over to those running the yards? I would move somewhere and do them yourself even if this means turning out 24/7

 

[Dave's Mam]

Hi Daves Man, I don't really know anyone who is DIY on the yard as i pretty much keep myself to myself and only see them in passing, as not having to muck out or do waters or hay you don't tend to build up relationships except for a high and a bye. The ones I hack out with are in the same boat as me as we are full liveries.

We have a yard FB chat, and everyone posts a video as they walk round the fields, or sends a photo. It's really great, could you reach out to someone to do that?

 

[Winters100]

So whilst I have not had issues at current yard up to now, I am pretty stressed, especially as the DIY's are still being allowed up, it begs the question why? Is it because they are scimping on services or feed or bedding etc

Why "especially as the DIYs are still being allowed up"?

I am sorry but you are making no sense. First you say that it is only about fairness, and that if all owners had to go on full livery and were forbidden to see their horses then you would be happy. Now you say that you are worried about poor care. Which is it? Surely if you are that worried you can ask one of the DIYs to take a look at your horse and to check if everything seems OK? I understand that they are not your best friends, but I would hope that you would at least be on reasonable terms with most of them, and I believe that in the current situation people are very willing to help others. Also you need to think about this calmly - why would a yard be suddenly neglecting your horse, particularly if other clients are around and might notice?

I really don't understand how you can ask why this is happening. In your shoes I would not be going to the yard anyway out of concern for others, and I would be super happy that the yard was taking steps to limit the number of people there, while still having the DIYs do their own horses so that those on full livery can enjoy the same quality service / staffing levels that they are used to. If you are worried about the level of care now please think about how it will be if the yard staff fall ill with this, because I can tell you that this thought terrifies me, and I would do anything to avoid it. If this happens no-one will be visiting, and your horse will most likely get nothing beyond the most basic level of care.

If you were previously going regularly and doing lots of 'extra' things why not have a think about which of these are essential and then contact the yard owner to ask if they can be done. You will need to be realistic in this case, and ask only for those things that you feel are truly necessary, this is what I did and YO gladly accommodated me. I also like to check things, but other liveries are happy to send me photos and to confirm that all is as it should be. These rules are there because we are in a crisis at present and have been asked to stay home as much as possible and to avoid all unnecessary contact. Whichever way you look at it visiting a horse which is on full livery is not a necessary activity so you should not anyway be doing it even if the YO permitted such visits.

 

[muddy_grey]

My yard is a full livery yard and is on lockdown. I am very lucky that I work there 3 days a week so still get to see my horse, but I only go down those days and am not riding. It isn't just about the spread of the virus it is also about non-essential travel and the strain on the NHS. I think you need to speak to your YO about the communication. Mine has been brilliant and has been sending regular updates and pictures to all the owners and sharing in the group chat. Also the horses are on what some would be considered part livery (no riding or grooming) but they are all having regular hoof picking, leg checks and rugs off. I think you might feel better with regular updates.

It is such a crazy situation and we need to do all we can and for some of us that does mean not seeing our horses.

 

[Gingerwitch]

Why "especially as the DIYs are still being allowed up"?

I am sorry but you are making no sense. First you say that it is only about fairness, and that if all owners had to go on full livery and were forbidden to see their horses then you would be happy. Now you say that you are worried about poor care. Which is it? Surely if you are that worried you can ask one of the DIYs to take a look at your horse and to check if everything seems OK? I understand that they are not your best friends, but I would hope that you would at least be on reasonable terms with most of them, and I believe that in the current situation people are very willing to help others. Also you need to think about this calmly - why would a yard be suddenly neglecting your horse, particularly if other clients are around and might notice?

I really don't understand how you can ask why this is happening. In your shoes I would not be going to the yard anyway out of concern for others, and I would be super happy that the yard was taking steps to limit the number of people there, while still having the DIYs do their own horses so that those on full livery can enjoy the same quality service / staffing levels that they are used to. If you are worried about the level of care now please think about how it will be if the yard staff fall ill with this, because I can tell you that this thought terrifies me, and I would do anything to avoid it. If this happens no-one will be visiting, and your horse will most likely get nothing beyond the most basic level of care.

If you were previously going regularly and doing lots of 'extra' things why not have a think about which of these are essential and then contact the yard owner to ask if they can be done. You will need to be realistic in this case, and ask only for those things that you feel are truly necessary, this is what I did and YO gladly accommodated me. I also like to check things, but other liveries are happy to send me photos and to confirm that all is as it should be. These rules are there because we are in a crisis at present and have been asked to stay home as much as possible and to avoid all unnecessary contact. Whichever way you look at it visiting a horse which is on full livery is not a necessary activity so you should not anyway be doing it even if the YO permitted such visits.

Hey Mrs holier than thou, you need to practice what you are so good at preaching and ramming down others throats.

Who went on an uncessary journey today to buy horse feed and then OMG you actually took it to the yard. Surley your horse would not have died without it ? cannot it eat just hay ? How far was your uncessary journey ? 1 mile, 2 or 3 oh and then not satisfied with getting the horse feed you then drove it to the yard and then had them fetch it in so you could see him - really !! After the way you are screaming on the other thread that someone was stupid and needs an education because the 2 mtr distance is nothing, so did you take your binoculars to see yours ? How dare you keep berating everyone that does not agree with your zealot view. So what happened to your doing anything to avoid it ?

Please note i have not fallen to your level of rudeness i.e. using bold letters to highlight your hollier than than opinions that you cannot even follow youself.

 

[Bernster]

Umm, I don’t think we’re at the stage of saying essential travel/care is only that which would otherwise = death? ?. Lawks, we’re really in trouble now then. Although on a serious note, we are actually talking about avoiding unnecessary death here, and that’s pretty sobering, I think we can all agree on that.

 

[tristar]

I have never not had access to see my horses though, how does anyone know what is going on behind closed doors at the moment, yes i hear what you say but over the years i have seen all sorts, especially when owners have been on holiday, the horses have been skipped for 13 days and then fully mucked out on the last day, I have seen stable hands take clean water out of other horses stables to save them having to fill up and have seen DIY;s help themselves to other horses hays and feed and who can speak up ? The horses cant pick the phone up and say "mum" someones nicked my hay again. I hasten to say that is not at this yard, but they have never had free range to do what they like and for us owners not to be dropping in.

my heart goes out to you, its truly a nightmare

livery yards are places for the most part i hate, i love the good ones but there is not many!

 

[Winters100]

Hey Mrs holier than thou, you need to practice what you are so good at preaching and ramming down others throats.

Who went on an uncessary journey today to buy horse feed and then OMG you actually took it to the yard. Surley your horse would not have died without it ? cannot it eat just hay ? How far was your uncessary journey ? 1 mile, 2 or 3 oh and then not satisfied with getting the horse feed you then drove it to the yard and then had them fetch it in so you could see him - really !! After the way you are screaming on the other thread that someone was stupid and needs an education because the 2 mtr distance is nothing, so did you take your binoculars to see yours ? How dare you keep berating everyone that does not agree with your zealot view. So what happened to your doing anything to avoid it ?

Please note i have not fallen to your level of rudeness i.e. using bold letters to highlight your hollier than than opinions that you cannot even follow youself.

Gingerwitch, firstly I am not being 'holier than thou', simply saying that we must all do our best in these circumstances. Your horse is on full livery, it has care, therefore you do not need to visit. I am in the same situation that I also do not need to visit other than seeing that there are adequate supplies - so I do not do so.

In answer to your questions:

No, the food could not be delivered directly to the stable, because it came with a delivery of dog food to my house some time ago. I drove it a few km to the stable, and they brought the horses for me to see without my request, but yes, I was happy that they were kind enough to do that.

No, the horses cannot just eat hay. Arranging feed to the horses is necessary and permitted, and I took additional measures above those required to see that I was not anywhere near anyone and that the food was left in a place that it does not need to be handled for some days.

I have no problem to see my horses across the yard at a distance of about 25m and do not require any additional aids for this.

It is you who simply refuses to understand that wanting to visit your full livery horse is not the same as needing to visit your DIY horse. Then you somehow muddy the waters saying that you don't mind that you can't visit as long as no one else can.

You say that the YO does not communicate with you, but honestly she might be finding it very difficult to speak with you when it seems that all that will satisfy you is to be allowed to visit the yard, which is clearly not sensible at the moment.

I am sorry that you are so stressed by this, but please take a step back and consider the position of the owner. She has a yard and possibly staff to protect. She needs to limit the number of people visiting and to maintain a service to full liveries. Not seeing our horses for a while is not the worst thing that will ever happen to us, so we need to compromise and think of others.

 

[southerncomfort]

I do wish certain posters would quit with the bold and caps lock.

?

 

[Winters100]

I do wish certain posters would quit with the bold and caps lock.

?

If you are referring to me I am sorry if it offends - I always thought it was a useful way to emphasise key points - in fact I am constantly asking colleagues to please use this tool as it helps me to understand which points they feel are the most pertinent. But if it offends point taken and I will try not to do it from here in

 

[Upthecreek]

I really feel for anyone that can’t see their horses at the moment, myself included. I won’t be seeing mine for 12 weeks at least. It’s hard to ‘let go’ and entrust their care completely to someone else and also emotionally upsetting because they are a huge part of ‘normal life’ which is gone. I can’t help with your fairness issue Gingerwitch, but what I would say is this; you are paying for a service and you should therefore ensure you are getting what you are paying for. Speak to the Yard Owner about the routine you would like for your horse and anything particular you would like done or any specific requirements your horse has. Ask for updates on how your horse is, ask if he/she is being groomed, feet picked out, rugs changed etc. If you don’t trust they are telling you the truth you are at the wrong yard.

 

[EllenJay]

Gingerwitch, firstly I am not being 'holier than thou', simply saying that we must all do our best in these circumstances. Your horse is on full livery, it has care, therefore you do not need to visit. I am in the same situation that I also do not need to visit other than seeing that there are adequate supplies - so I do not do so.

In answer to your questions:

No, the food could not be delivered directly to the stable, because it came with a delivery of dog food to my house some time ago. I drove it a few km to the stable, and they brought the horses for me to see without my request, but yes, I was happy that they were kind enough to do that.

No, the horses cannot just eat hay. Arranging feed to the horses is necessary and permitted, and I took additional measures above those required to see that I was not anywhere near anyone and that the food was left in a place that it does not need to be handled for some days.

I have no problem to see my horses across the yard at a distance of about 25m and do not require any additional aids for this.

It is you who simply refuses to understand that wanting to visit your full livery horse is not the same as needing to visit your DIY horse. Then you somehow muddy the waters saying that you don't mind that you can't visit as long as no one else can.

You say that the YO does not communicate with you, but honestly she might be finding it very difficult to speak with you when it seems that all that will satisfy you is to be allowed to visit the yard, which is clearly not sensible at the moment.

I am sorry that you are so stressed by this, but please take a step back and consider the position of the owner. She has a yard and possibly staff to protect. She needs to limit the number of people visiting and to maintain a service to full liveries. Not seeing our horses for a while is not the worst thing that will ever happen to us, so we need to compromise and think of others.

What a polite and we'll reasoned answer.

 

[JJS]

Hey Mrs holier than thou, you need to practice what you are so good at preaching and ramming down others throats.

Who went on an uncessary journey today to buy horse feed and then OMG you actually took it to the yard. Surley your horse would not have died without it ? cannot it eat just hay ? How far was your uncessary journey ? 1 mile, 2 or 3 oh and then not satisfied with getting the horse feed you then drove it to the yard and then had them fetch it in so you could see him - really !! After the way you are screaming on the other thread that someone was stupid and needs an education because the 2 mtr distance is nothing, so did you take your binoculars to see yours ? How dare you keep berating everyone that does not agree with your zealot view. So what happened to your doing anything to avoid it ?

Please note i have not fallen to your level of rudeness i.e. using bold letters to highlight your hollier than than opinions that you cannot even follow youself.

I definitely think you’ve descended into rudeness now. You don’t like what you’re (rightly) being told, so you’ve started to insult other people and accuse them of being ‘holier than thou’.

In all honesty, GW, you sound like a bratty teenager moaning about how unfair your life is, while also calling DIY liveries as a whole cheapskates, which is pretty offensive. No, I couldn’t afford to have all three of mine on full livery, yet they receive the best care and I always have backups in place in case they need a vet. That being said, there’s no way I could stump up for three weeks of full livery for all three, nor is it on offer even if I could, but I’m pretty sure that doesn’t make me a bad owner ??‍

To put it bluntly, the treatment that DIYs and full liveries receive has never been the same, but it’s apparent that this is only bothering you now that you feel like you’re getting the short end of the stick. Yes, it’s rubbish that you can’t see your horse, but so is the fact I won’t be able to see my boyfriend until all of this is over. No one likes it, no one is enjoying it, but at least you’ve not lost a loved one yet, as many will. I think you need to put things into perspective and realise it could be infinitely worse.

 

[Chinchilla]

I do wish certain posters would quit with the bold and caps lock.

?

Sorry ? I wasn't trying to be rude and I'm really sorry if it came across that way if you're meaning me.

 

[Dave's Mam]

I definitely think you’ve descended into rudeness now. You don’t like what you’re (rightly) being told, so you’ve started to insult other people and accuse them of being ‘holier than thou’.

In all honesty, GW, you sound like a bratty teenager moaning about how unfair your life is, while also calling DIY liveries as a whole cheapskates, which is pretty offensive. No, I couldn’t afford to have all three of mine on full livery, yet they receive the best care and I always have backups in place in case they need a vet. That being said, there’s no way I could stump up for three weeks of full livery for all three, nor is it on offer even if I could, but I’m pretty sure that doesn’t make me a bad owner ??‍

To put it bluntly, the treatment that DIYs and full liveries receive has never been the same, but it’s apparent that this is only bothering you now that you feel like you’re getting the short end of the stick. Yes, it’s rubbish that you can’t see your horse, but so is the fact I won’t be able to see my boyfriend until all of this is over. No one likes it, no one is enjoying it, but at least you’ve not lost a loved one yet, as many will. I think you need to put things into perspective and realise it could be infinitely worse.

Perfectly put.

 

[SO1]

GW - the only person who can answer the question as to why the full liveries are not allowed on the yard whilst the DIY's are allowed to continue as normal is your YO. You also have every right to feel sad about missing your horse or worried about it welfare if you don't trust the yard.

What I would say is that the virus can be passed on through touching surfaces including fur. So if perhaps like me you like to give your horse a kiss or a cuddle then the virus could get on to your horses fur and then the staff who looks after the horse might touch your horse and would be at risk of getting the virus. You may have really good hygiene and wash your hands before touching your horse and not get close enough to breathe on the your horse or the head collars rugs etc but others may not be so responsible.

The YO and staff do not need to touch the DIY horses or their rugs head collars etc so there is less risk of them getting the virus from touching surfaces as there will be less shared surfaces to touch. With the full liveries there is more risk of spreading the virus as the staff and the owners will be touching the horses, rugs, and other things like headcollars and lead rope and possibly grooming kit and tack.

It is pretty much impossible to look after a horse and keep 2 meters away from it. So say a livery has the virus but is asymptomatic and they get close enough to breathe on the horse and some virus gets on to the rug. A member of yard staff changes the rug or checks it and they get virus on to their hands they then go and turn out another full liveries horse the virus gets on the lead rope, that owner of the horse touches lead rope they get the virus on them. Unless the staff are washing their hands before touching each horse they could spread the virus on to other horses and the owners could pick it up and the virus and touch things and pass it on. With the DIY's there is less risk as they are the only person touching the horse and its stuff.

 

[Leo Walker]

I definitely think you’ve descended into rudeness now. You don’t like what you’re (rightly) being told, so you’ve started to insult other people and accuse them of being ‘holier than thou’.

In all honesty, GW, you sound like a bratty teenager moaning about how unfair your life is, while also calling DIY liveries as a whole cheapskates, which is pretty offensive. No, I couldn’t afford to have all three of mine on full livery, yet they receive the best care and I always have backups in place in case they need a vet. That being said, there’s no way I could stump up for three weeks of full livery for all three, nor is it on offer even if I could, but I’m pretty sure that doesn’t make me a bad owner ??‍

To put it bluntly, the treatment that DIYs and full liveries receive has never been the same, but it’s apparent that this is only bothering you now that you feel like you’re getting the short end of the stick. Yes, it’s rubbish that you can’t see your horse, but so is the fact I won’t be able to see my boyfriend until all of this is over. No one likes it, no one is enjoying it, but at least you’ve not lost a loved one yet, as many will. I think you need to put things into perspective and realise it could be infinitely worse.

Indeed! Its fine to have a moan every now and again, but you've gone way past that now. If this is all you have to worry about then count yourself lucky.

It's not fair that I have a shattered spine, neuropathy, type 1 diabetes and that at some point I will go blind and that's just the big issues. Its esp not fair that looking after a horse is at least twice as hard and twice as expensive for me as an able bodied person. And it is not even remotely fair that I have a limited time left owning horses and this is taking a significant amount of that time away at a time when my health is as good as it will ever get.

If I sat and dwelled on that I would go mad with frustration and grief. Life is just not fair, not in the slightest.

 

[Nasicus]

I definitely think you’ve descended into rudeness now. You don’t like what you’re (rightly) being told, so you’ve started to insult other people and accuse them of being ‘holier than thou’.

In all honesty, GW, you sound like a bratty teenager moaning about how unfair your life is, while also calling DIY liveries as a whole cheapskates, which is pretty offensive. No, I couldn’t afford to have all three of mine on full livery, yet they receive the best care and I always have backups in place in case they need a vet. That being said, there’s no way I could stump up for three weeks of full livery for all three, nor is it on offer even if I could, but I’m pretty sure that doesn’t make me a bad owner ??‍

To put it bluntly, the treatment that DIYs and full liveries receive has never been the same, but it’s apparent that this is only bothering you now that you feel like you’re getting the short end of the stick. Yes, it’s rubbish that you can’t see your horse, but so is the fact I won’t be able to see my boyfriend until all of this is over. No one likes it, no one is enjoying it, but at least you’ve not lost a loved one yet, as many will. I think you need to put things into perspective and realise it could be infinitely worse.

I suppose her YO could always put the poor, pitiful DIYs on full livery at no extra cost, so that they too wouldn't be able to see their horses. Bet she'd complain about that a bit more...

 

[Michen]

Deleted as just not worth the argument.

 

[fredflop]

I was thinking the point is that full livery not allowed at yard (fair enough as that’s the governments rules), and can’t ride, whereas the DIY’ers have been allowed to ride

 

[sport horse]

Life is not fair. Some people are not getting Coronavirus while others are and many are even dying. All you can do is publicy moan that you cannot see your horse. Get over yourself.

 

[lme]

Our horses are on full livery and we completely trust the yard to care for them. If we didn’t, we wouldn’t keep them there. The yard has now closed to liveries but we had (in any case) stopped visiting before the closure as it seemed the correct thing to do. In the current circumstances, riding hoses who will be perfectly happy having a break seems an unnecessary risk.