Livery Yards, Horse Welfare and the Law

I really don't see the point in licencing livery yards. Only harm will come of it I'm sure. Surely if you licence yards then you have to licence individuals who keep horses privately too? I mean, if you keep your horse on DIY then it is your responsibility to take care of it, not the YO. Of course if they become aware that there is neglect or cruelty going on they should step in, but I don't see how licencing would help DIY horses anyway. And as for full livery, then again surely any responsible owner would do their own spot checks now and then when the YO aren't expecting them? I know I would. When I first get a new livery they are always here every day, usually at different times for a few weeks before they relax and trust that their horse is being well cared for. I always know when they trust me as suddenly I won't see half as much of them!
 
Jeez, muck out water and hay before 8.30 am - that's what evenings are for.... I'd never get to work if I had to do all that of a morning!!!
 
trottingon said:
Jeez, muck out water and hay before 8.30 am - that's what evenings are for.... I'd never get to work if I had to do all that of a morning!!!
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And by that token, some us wouldn't get home until midnight if we didn't! It takes me about an hour to drive to or from work (1.5 hours last night :( ) I'm never home before 7.30pm and I leave home at 7.15 am. The thought of having to shovel out my stable after a heavy day driving my desk would have me reaching for the cyanide. I feed her, make up her breakfast and leave for the 30 minute drive home. That's plenty for me.
 
trottingon said:
Jeez, muck out water and hay before 8.30 am - that's what evenings are for.... I'd never get to work if I had to do all that of a morning!!!
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I'd not sit down till v late if I did it all at the end of the day! Nor would DH & I have any evening outings etc

fatpiggy said:
And by that token, some us wouldn't get home until midnight if we didn't! It takes me about an hour to drive to or from work (1.5 hours last night :( ) I'm never home before 7.30pm and I leave home at 7.15 am. The thought of having to shovel out my stable after a heavy day driving my desk would have me reaching for the cyanide. I feed her, make up her breakfast and leave for the 30 minute drive home. That's plenty for me.
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My thoughts too, 30mins tops to do mine each work morning- feed, muckout, hay out, turn out, water & make feeds for pm & next am.
Only a few mins after work to bring in, check over, feed & change rugs as required (if required!)

What suits one doesn't suit another :)
 
Wagtail said:
I really don't see the point in licencing livery yards. Only harm will come of it I'm sure. Surely if you licence yards then you have to licence individuals who keep horses privately too? I mean, if you keep your horse on DIY then it is your responsibility to take care of it, not the YO. Of course if they become aware that there is neglect or cruelty going on they should step in, but I don't see how licencing would help DIY horses anyway. And as for full livery, then again surely any responsible owner would do their own spot checks now and then when the YO aren't expecting them? I know I would. When I first get a new livery they are always here every day, usually at different times for a few weeks before they relax and trust that their horse is being well cared for. I always know when they trust me as suddenly I won't see half as much of them!
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Although I wouldnt mind licencing, I do agree with the above. At the end of the day if my horse were being neglected I'd move and kick up hell a different way. If I were a YO, I would also expect to maintain a standard of care - I have been on yards where horses have been abandoned due to money issues and in one case was asked by the YO if I could chip in to pay for it - you guessed the answer. As for YO's keeping passports - no way, my passports stay with me! Apart from needing them for comps, they are too easily forged and too many untrustworthy people in the world. The only time my YO has mine is when I am out of the country in case a vet is required, but she is somebody I very much trust

One thing that worries me MUCH more is the electrical safety of a huge majority of yards and I do feel that fire safety checks should be carried out annually. Sadly I feel this would mean some very big bills for a lot of yards posh or scruffy, DIY and Full.
 
livery yards should be liscenced and the owners should have a duty of care to provide horses adequate stabling free from leaks and very importently good sound fencing. I cannot believe that there are still loads of yards with barbed wire for fencing and worse still damaged barbed wire fencing. My friend lost her horse last year due to barbed wire and my horse went down to role and ended up with the wire caught under his shoes. Its not on and livery owners who take your money should be required by law to make good any damaged or dangerous fencing by fencing roUnd barbed wire with electric fencing or be CLOSED DOWN
 
tHE point of liscencing livery yards is not just to keep the eye on the horses actual wellbeing provided by the owner of said animal but to keep check on the fascilities provided by the yard owner i.e. adequate leak free stabling and saftely fenced paddocks NO BARBED WIRE !
 
lottylove said:
livery yards should be liscenced and the owners should have a duty of care to provide horses adequate stabling free from leaks and very importently good sound fencing. I cannot believe that there are still loads of yards with barbed wire for fencing and worse still damaged barbed wire fencing. My friend lost her horse last year due to barbed wire and my horse went down to role and ended up with the wire caught under his shoes. Its not on and livery owners who take your money should be required by law to make good any damaged or dangerous fencing by fencing roUnd barbed wire with electric fencing or be CLOSED DOWN
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I'm sorry but the onus is on the owner. Your friend chose to keep their horse on this yard, therefore accepted the state of the fencing etc etc and its not until there is an accident that something gets done! Why on earth do people keep their horses on yards like this, it beggars belief! It's yard like this that force yards like mine to keep their prices rock bottom, people need to vote with their feet. It's not rocket science. I know this is a very old thread, but had to get that off my chest. I am truly sorry about the loss of your friends horse.
 
3Responsibility for animals

So I had a look at Legislation.gov.uk as I seem to spend an awful lot of time on here lately and:

(1)In this Act, references to a person responsible for an animal are to a person responsible for an animal whether on a permanent or temporary basis.
(2)In this Act, references to being responsible for an animal include being in charge of it.
(3)For the purposes of this Act, a person who owns an animal shall always be regarded as being a person who is responsible for it.
(4)For the purposes of this Act, a person shall be treated as responsible for any animal for which a person under the age of 16 years of whom he has actual care and control is responsible.

However there is also a further clause which states
Unnecessary suffering

(1)A person commits an offence if—
(a)an act of his, or a failure of his to act, causes an animal to suffer,
(b)he knew, or ought reasonably to have known, that the act, or failure to act, would have that effect or be likely to do so,
(c)the animal is a protected animal, and
(d)the suffering is unnecessary.
(2)A person commits an offence if—
(a)he is responsible for an animal,
(b)an act, or failure to act, of another person causes the animal to suffer,
(c)he permitted that to happen or failed to take such steps (whether by way of supervising the other person or otherwise) as were reasonable in all the circumstances to prevent that happening, and
(d)the suffering is unnecessary.

So livery yard owners would come under part C, as in if the owner was causing a horse to suffer, and a livery owner permitted it, or failed to stop it, then they would be committing an offence under the act.
 
I am not sure the livery yard owner would be any more responsible than anyone else that might see the animal suffering and not do anything about it.

The person responsible for the animal is always the owner or if the owner is a person under 16 the person responsible for the child as well as any person who is in charge of the horse. They have not provided a definition of "in charge" but I would not expect YO on pure DIY yard with no services to ever be in charge of the horses especially YO who may not go to the yard every day or at all. I expect this is more relevant in loan situations or where horses are on full or competition livery where the owners have signed a contract saying an named individual is now legally in charge of their horse.

It looks like the owner is always responsible for the animal so even if it is on loan or full livery and someone else is contractually in charge of the horses welfare if something goes wrong and there is a serious welfare issue then could both the person who is in charge and the owner could be prosecuted?. This is probably to try and ensure absent owners take responsibility to check that the people in charge of their horses are caring for them properly.

I expect under the further clause on a DIY yard where the owner is not around much then it might the other liveries who might be more likely to commit an offense if they see something that is a defined as a welfare concern and fail to act. I expect it would not be deemed as reasonable to expect a livery yard owner to be checking all the horses all the time or even at the yard every day if they are not offering services or working on the yard.

What I am not sure about is if the liveries told an absent YO that there was a welfare concern and they failed to act if that would be an offense or what the YO would reasonable be expected to do about it beyond reporting the issue to the RSPCA.






 
I agree SO. I speak as a lawyer and cannot see how a YO, particularly DIY, could said to be responsible for a liveried horse. There may be an argument for a YO providing full livery but as far as I am aware there have been no cases involving YOs under this statute.
 
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