Livid with police tonight

And I felt it was utterly ridiculous when the poor firefighter was proscecuted for the cows stampeding and killing the farmer, he was totally alone to face the charge of death by dangerous driving, i wish my husband wasnt EFAD trained, as when the poo hits the fan he will be held responsible, they have little back up when you are on blue lights as its the drivers responsibility to make the right decisions.

Yes our emergency services do a great job, but sometimes the red mist comes down, not all drivers are as good as others who have had the same training.
 
I have to say all my encounters with the emergency services have been brilliant, whilst leading out a couple of 2 years old with helpers, 2 polices cars came along about 5 mins apart with lights and sirens going and both turn it all off and slowed down, when the 2nd car came along one of the youngsters went very silly and police car stopped until he had calmed down. i thanked them and apologised for holding them up, to which they also thanked me for being so polite and understanding.
But at the same time if they had not had time to turn everything off and the silly horse carried on i had enough helers to shove him in the hedge, no way would i want to hold up any emergency service vehicle due to my lack of control, some one out there is waiting for that vehicle
 
miss_bird said:
I have to say all my encounters with the emergency services have been brilliant, whilst leading out a couple of 2 years old with helpers, 2 polices cars came along about 5 mins apart with lights and sirens going and both turn it all off and slowed down, when the 2nd car came along one of the youngsters went very silly and police car stopped until he had calmed down. i thanked them and apologised for holding them up, to which they also thanked me for being so polite and understanding.
But at the same time if they had not had time to turn everything off and the silly horse carried on i had enough helers to shove him in the hedge, no way would i want to hold up any emergency service vehicle due to my lack of control, some one out there is waiting for that vehicle
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Quite right too! :-) Everyone should be helping each other out!
 
Devonshire dumpling said:
And to say a horse shouldnt be on the road if its likely to spook at flashing lights is ridiculous!
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No actually it isn't - if you have a horse on a public highway you have to have it under control at all times, therefore you shouldn't have a horse on a road that can be spooked by something you can reasonably expect to see (like flashing lights which may also be found on road signs....)

I appreciate that your husband may be able to take more time getting to a call but then the fire service doesn't have the response time critieria that Police and Ambulance, criteria that is put in place to save lives. Surely you can understand with all your experience that in some cases horses arent' seen?

And as you keep quoting the farmer who was trampled - that was an entirely different scenario as the cattle were across the whole road and the driver had stopped then restarted his siren causing the stampede - he was porsecuted as he HAD seen the cows and should have known the risks, not because he hadn't seen them and so caused an accident :rolleyes:
 
JoG said:
Yes it would - it takes about 15seconds for the lights to cycle to off, I would have to take a hand off the steering wheel to turn them off, vehicles who may ahve pulled over would then pull out again, I may be in a road position that is dangerous to not have lights on, when the lights come back on the road users who had stopped, then started, then stopped again will not have their full attention on the road and other road users...

And to be perfectly blunt, if you can't control your horse when there is a flashy light get off the road and stop putting yourself, your horse and other road users at risk of injury!!!
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Normally dont comment on the firey ones, but sorry, thats complete b*****it!!! Are you seriously saying that every horse that reacts to blue ights should not be on the road!! What a joke, well maybe, if there was access to everywhere us riders need to go without being on the road, then fine, but unfortunately, thats never going to happen, and whilst emergency services drivers turn on the siren to get home for tea, riders are at risk!! Nobody wants an ambulance delayed getting to the scence of an accident, but really, do we need to cause others on the way!!!
 
Devonshire dumpling said:
Drivers of emergency vehicles will be prosecuted if they cause death by causing animals to bolt, its happened with the firebrigade so it will happen with other emergency vehicles. And to say a horse shouldnt be on the road if its likely to spook at flashing lights is ridiculous!
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Yes and they also get prosecuted for causing accidents by causing confusion to other road users by switching lights/sirens on, then off then back on again.

Noone is disputing care should be taken but in the circumstances given it seems there was no time to react and switch off the equipment safetly.

Noone has the right to say the police officers SHOULD HAVE switched the equipment off, they werent there, they were not driving that vehicle and they have no idea what visibility the drivers had.
yes emergency equipment should be switched off when there is livestock around on the road BUT each situation should be considered on its own merits.
 
JoG said:
No actually it isn't - if you have a horse on a public highway you have to have it under control at all times, therefore you shouldn't have a horse on a road that can be spooked by something you can reasonably expect to see (like flashing lights which may also be found on road signs....)

I appreciate that your husband may like to take his time getting to a call but then the fire service doesn't have the response time critieria that Police and Ambulance, criteria that is put in place to save lives. Surely you can understand with all your experience that in some cases horses arent' seen?

And as you keep quoting the farmer who was trampled - that was an entirely different scenario as the cattle were across the whole road and the driver had stopped then restarted his siren causing the stampede - he was porsecuted as he HAD seen the cows and should have known the risks, not because he hadn't seen them and so caused an accident :rolleyes:
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EVERY HORSE ON THE ROAD IS LIKELY TO SPOOK AT SIRENS!!!!!!!!

You don't read a word I right, go back and read it slowly!!!!!!!! My husband does not take time to get to a shout, they do have response times and often get there before the police and the ambulance!!!!! They are called by the police sometimes to cut people out with horrendous injuries or fatalaties, don't you dare be so jumped up with me, I refuse to talk to you anymore you are self righteous and arrogant!
 
fitzaud2 said:
whilst emergency services drivers turn on the siren to get home for tea, riders are at risk!!
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Where the hell do you get the idea that this happens??? It is ILLEGAL to drive on blue lights unless you are responding to an emergency call and yes, it does get checked so NO WE DON'T USE LIGHTS COS WE WANT OUR TEA.

it can be one of the most stressful parts of the jobs, and isn't helped by people getting so wound up when they feel that the driver didn't see them/acknowledge them - does every driver on the road always see you and slow down?? NO!!! and occassionally that may be a car with blue lights on, so if you are on a road where you are going to meet emergency vehicles then get your horse under control as you are required to do by law!!! :rolleyes::rolleyes:
 
Devonshire dumpling said:
EVERY HORSE ON THE ROAD IS LIKELY TO SPOOK AT SIRENS!!!!!!!!

You don't read a word I right, go back and read it slowly!!!!!!!! My husband does not take time to get to a shout, they do have response times and often get there before the police and the ambulance!!!!! They are called by the police sometimes to cut people out with horrendous injuries or fatalaties, don't you dare be so jumped up with me, I refuse to talk to you anymore you are self righteous and arrogant!
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Why have you taken it upon yourself to edit my post when you have quoted it so it doesn't say what I have written???? And I know all about the horrendous injuries - I will be the one treating them and telling the fire service what i want them to do and how quickly!
 
JoG said:
.it is VERY stressful driving under blue lights, and suprisingly - WE'RE ONLY HUMAN TOO!!! :rolleyes: :mad:
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Just wanted to completley back JoG up. My dad drives fire engines and it is an incredibly skilled and difficult job. Has anyone considered, that the police car saw the car that was going slowly, didn't see the horse (as if the road is clear they will pull out from a distance away and go wide), and presumed the car had slowed down in response to seeing the police car and hearing the sirens??
It would be a perfectly valid assumption that the car was slowing down due to hearing the sirens or seeing the car (as the driver of the police car would be expecting).

The maybe the police car then saw the car and realised after it was too late? Do you happen to know if they were coming up to a busy junction or similar? They will rarely turn their sirens and lights off if approaching a busy junction because of the need to warn over road users as much in advanced as possible.

fitzaud2 said:
whilst emergency services drivers turn on the siren to get home for tea, riders are at risk!!
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I take HUGE offence to that. Emergency drivers ONLY drive on sirens when their job requires it. You make it sound like a perk of the job. Every time you hear sirens, a life is potentially at risk. A horrible job to have, never knowing what you will find at the other end. You make it sound like they would take risks and put others at danger for a cup of tea ... when their daily work involves risking their life to save others. A hugely selfless act.
That comment and belief shows a high level of naivety and a lot of ignorance at what your emergency service teams deal with.
 
The only real surprise in this thread is that just because you work for the emergency services, doesn't mean you have an automatic right to be thanked for doing your job, which is the impression, I'm afraid, that comes across.
You're being paid to do a job, just as I'm paid to do a job. I don't expect thanks for it so, in all honesty, why do you expect to be? Just curious.
 
Actually, looking at it from the other side............ If one of you loved ones was trapped inside a house with a crazed gunman and because the police slowed down to pass someone who could not control their own horse, your loved one was shot how would you feel.

Yes it is a pain, if they drive past you at speed with their lights on, but it is over in seconds. Occasionally when I am riding out the RAF fly high speed jets past, that is scary, you can see them coming down the valley, they make one hell of a noise far far far worse than the sirens and lights, but that noise doesn;t happen till they are past and it is too fast to take action. And they are not flying to an emergency - they are just doing training runs.

I would far rather they passed me at speed with their lights on and kept the sirens going, horses will have heard the siren from a distance away. Also as a responsible road user it is your responsibility to get out of the way of the emergency vehicles and let them through.

Yes the horse was injured which is why it was on the road and being walked back, but at the end of the day that horse is a hobby, the police may well have been responsding to a life or death incident. A Dunblane, a Hungerford, a Lake District. Look at it from that point, not just how inconvenient and inconsiderate they were in that tiny timescale. Police cars, fire engines and ambulances are all really courteous round here when not responding to an emergency. They do a fantastic job, in some pretty shitty circumstances and i personally would hate to think my horse caused someone else to die because I failed to respond to the situation.
 
JoG said:
Where the hell do you get the idea that this happens??? It is ILLEGAL to drive on blue lights unless you are responding to an emergency call and yes, it does get checked so NO WE DON'T USE LIGHTS COS WE WANT OUR TEA.
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Not 100% true, in a pub I used to work in, frequenting by police and CID officers, one time one of them was dropped of at the pub by a colleague in a patrol vehicle with the lights flashing! Lol. Then again this was many years ago.

My mum was actually one of those who did end up having to be a passenger in the back of an ambulance as they caused her to fall from my horse. Windy country lane, she could hear them coming but they were coming up the hill which is very windy before it straightens out where my mum was. The road had no cars on sat the time in either direction so actualy I believe the ambulance didn't need to have their sirens on. My mum was prepared as much as she could be but when my horse saw the ambulance he spun, unblanced my mum and headed off down the road with ambulance following. My mum fell off and horse legged it home. The ambulance crew then had to put her in the ambulance and take her to hospital!

I don't actually know why they had their sirens on at that time - my horse isn't scared or worried by flashing lights at all but sirens are obviously loud and we don't regularly get emergency vehicles round our way so of course it'll make the horse spook a bit. I don't blame the ambulance as such but i don't think the circumstances at the time warranted them having their sirens on. Still, noone was hurt so that's all that matters I guess.
 
"No actually it isn't - if you have a horse on a public highway you have to have it under control at all times, therefore you shouldn't have a horse on a road that can be spooked by something you can reasonably expect to see (like flashing lights which may also be found on road signs....)

I am gratified to hear the horses you ride are robots JoG, however the majority of people ride living breathing horses with a functioning nervous system. While we do all we can to make sure our animals are road proof it will still react to things very quickly if it feels it is at risk, we as riders will then bring our animal back under control, however the rider could well be thrown and a loose horse could be causing a situation where the emergency services are required.
 
In a real emergency, the police are not going to slow down for a horse. Sorry, but if a person's life is at risk, that has to become top priority.They (and I) would also assume that any persons leading a horse on a public byway would be capable of handling it in said situation. I think you will get told politely to booger off if you complain.
 
Driving an emergency vehicle does not absolve you from driving according to the highway code and roadcraft manual.
Instructors always point out on advanced driving courses, that you may speed and go through red lights in an emergency, the object being to get to the scene safely, not at any cost.
If you cause an accident by inconsiderate or careless driving, blue lights and a siren will not absolve you from responsibility or prosecution.
 
This thread is ridiculous and I don't understand why the two emergency services drivers are getting such a hard time. They know better than anyone the policies, dangers and risks surrounding blue light driving. Every time I see an emergency vehicle I privately wish them a speedy and safe journey to whichever situation they may be heading to. If I or one of my loved ones were the ones they were rushing to I'd want them to get there as quickly as humanly possible and if they scared a few horses on the way, so be it. To the person whose mum fell off, I would have thought that sirens were even more necessary on a winding narrow road due to the risk of oncoming traffic needing to know an emergency vehicle was around. I sincerely hope none of the people slating the emergency services need them at any point, especially if they decide to delay a few minutes to pass a horse. Those minutes could be the difference between life and death for whichever poor person they are going to help.
 
JoG said:
Has it occurred to anyone that maybe they were going somewhere really important?? Like a serious accident or assault?? Or someone in danger of their life??
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Must admit this was my first thought too (and remaining one).

In an ideal world - yes, the car would have slowed and turned sirens and lights off.

But we don't live in an ideal world...................:o
 
I'm not going to get into the debate of whether they should or could have slowed and turned off all the emergency equipment because I wasn't there so don't know if it was even feasible or possible for them to do so.

What I do take from this thread though is the information that two previous emergency vehicles had managed to slow down but the third did not. On the basis of the decision made by ONE driver the OP declares herself 'livid with police tonight' and wants to complain.

Complain about one driver if you wish, but do not label every emergency service driver based on one experience...especially when it follows two positive experiences. I'm guessing that if every car had slowed down you wouldn't be posting at all....
 
I had a similar experience last year, on a lane and I was on a bend which I tried to trot along to get ahead to a pull in but the siren lights etc of police car came flying round (we had no where to go) I saw the shock on the guys face and I was blooming lucky my horse was good as gold(which is one reason I am looking for my 110% traffic proofed horse)!
I was furious.

However when I got home to my Class A police OH and complained at my disgust, he disagreed completely ,said they have to have them on blind bends they need to let other road users know they are coming through and actually he is right the more I thought about it, it was a bend in the road very narrow etc and the reason they have the sirens is to alert road users/pedestrians that they are coming along. He also said if you had called 999 you would expect them to be there ASAP. On the straight bits of A road in our village obviously vision is clearer and they do turn off their sirens and put them back on when they have come past you if you are a rider.

For all the people who are anti police on here I bet if you have an issue the first people you will ring are the emergency services. We just had 2 young motorcyclists killed last week. The police were the first on the scene. Followed by ambulance/air ambulance etc etc
 
I find it difficult to see how anyone thinks the police car could have seen a horse behind a car!

We live in a village with a fire station. Normally they put their lights off but as we also have two sets of double blind bends the fire engines have no way of knowing what is round the bends and therefore it is obviously vital that they do have their sirens on to warn other road users.

Further to following a horse with a car - hazards should presumably be used to warn other road users that the vehicle is travelling so slowly, as well as high vis on the pedestrians. Probably hazards on the car would have alerted the police officers that something other than a car that had slowed up for them was ahead.
 
I much prefer them to keep their sirens on as a constant noise, and have no probs with blue lights flashing. Thats the trouble all our horses would prefer different scenarios! I find it more of a problem if they are coming up the road with sirens off or using it intermittently as I then don't necessarily realise they are there depending on when they last turned it on! (this is on a straight bit of 30mph A road). If I hear them I know they are coming and will make use of someones driveway if poss to get out of their way although have never had a problem with my lad and emergency vehicles.. birds/plastic bags/funny coloured weeds are a bit different though.

I think there is lots of times that in hindsight people may do things differently but that blue light driving is likely a bit different to what most of us do on the road
 
Can not quote stupid h h mobile:( I agree with bosworth 100% also if your taking your horse out on public roads then you have to have made an effort for the horse to be used to different scenario on roads, am sure blue lights and sirens would be something that has a high chance of meeting on the roads at some point. No horses are not robots and will spook at the most silliest of things.
I also think that sometimes the handler rider is the one who has the issue not th horse I was bringing my boy in from feild and a low flying army plane zoomed over I thought oh he is going to go mental got nervous him on the other hand seemed more concerned about getting in for his tea :)
 
Bosworth said:
Actually, looking at it from the other side............ If one of you loved ones was trapped inside a house with a crazed gunman and because the police slowed down to pass someone who could not control their own horse, your loved one was shot how would you feel.

Yes it is a pain, if they drive past you at speed with their lights on, but it is over in seconds. Occasionally when I am riding out the RAF fly high speed jets past, that is scary, you can see them coming down the valley, they make one hell of a noise far far far worse than the sirens and lights, but that noise doesn;t happen till they are past and it is too fast to take action. And they are not flying to an emergency - they are just doing training runs.

I would far rather they passed me at speed with their lights on and kept the sirens going, horses will have heard the siren from a distance away. Also as a responsible road user it is your responsibility to get out of the way of the emergency vehicles and let them through.

Yes the horse was injured which is why it was on the road and being walked back, but at the end of the day that horse is a hobby, the police may well have been responsding to a life or death incident. A Dunblane, a Hungerford, a Lake District. Look at it from that point, not just how inconvenient and inconsiderate they were in that tiny timescale. Police cars, fire engines and ambulances are all really courteous round here when not responding to an emergency. They do a fantastic job, in some pretty shitty circumstances and i personally would hate to think my horse caused someone else to die because I failed to respond to the situation.
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Spot on.

Once again someone is able to articulate what I wanted to say, but far more eloquently.

Folks - we do not have a God given right for everything around us to stop just because we are on the road with our horses (for whatever reason).

There is a real arrogance in the horse world that insists that we take priority over everything on the roads. We don't - simply put. The world does not revolve around us, and it is this sort of attitude that gives us all such a bad name.

OP, must have been scary for the handlers of the young horse. But it is our choice to be on the roads - and we must accept the inherent risks that accompany that choice.

And to the poster who said that police, fire service, ambulance drivers are just doing a job. No, they're not. They're following a vocation which we should all be enormously grateful for.
 
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fitzaud2 said:
, and whilst emergency services drivers turn on the siren to get home for tea, riders are at risk!!
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I find this REALLY offensive

I watched a single policeman (first on the scene) pull a dead man out of a car last week in the crash that closed the a1. Not only did he have to deal with the horror in front of him he had to console the survivors of the crash, calm the hysteria and divert traffic. All by himself.

In the line of duty? Maybe so, would I care if he used his sirens to get back to the office quicker at home time? ABSOLUTELY NOT.
 
Two thoughts.
One, if horse owners stopped acting like they owned the roads and deserve special consideration, and had some respect for other road users, the situation would be different.

Secondly, the police do an exceptional job and the comments slating them, you should be ashamed. If someone put a post on here saying their loved one had been shot dead because the police had slowed down for a horse, everyone would be outraged.

And a p.s. If it's such a dangerous stretch of road, why did you have one incompetent and one fairly competent teenagers leading?
 
I got knocked over when I was a baby out of my pushchair crossing a zebra crossing by a police car on an emergency !

Imagine if they had claims direct now ha ha !

Might explain why I have Tinitis though, I just thought everyone had ringing in their ears !
 
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