Loading issues- are they ever really resolved?

[skint1]

I'd like to preface by saying I am not in any way an expert, it's just a thought that's been germinating away in my messy big head so I thought I would see what others thought about it ...

I've known a few horses who are really difficult to load, some are stubborn, some are a bit scared, some a bit of both, our horse is like this too so I know how heartbreaking and demoralising it it can be for the owner. It's especially stressful out in public because then you have everyone watching and with their own idea of how it should work.

It seems to me that repeated practice, feeding in trailer/lorry, horse whisperers/trainers (well known ones) getting rid of trailer and getting a lorry, getting a bigger lorry, Pax, Lavender Oil, etc do sometimes improve the situation but I think that a reticent loader will always be that way and at some stage, no matter how much work and money you throw at it, the problem will resurface to some degree.

btw-when I am around a difficult loader I would NEVER say I felt this way to their owner, they need all the encouragement there is!

 

[classicalfan]

It's never a lost cause. If the (re)training is correct then the problem is usually solved. Would add that the horse and the owner need to learn together.

 

[Ladylina83]

Mine is pretty much spot on now but was a NIGHTMARE if you turn the clock back 10 years

I had a NH practitioner do one session for 2 hours on her and now she sometimes knocks me off the ramp to get on quicker !!

I've taught my yearling to load with a bucket - seemed a good idea a the time but now when we go somewhere he stands at the bottom of the ramp looking at me going ... "wheres the bucket ??" jumps on as soon as he sees it - we just need a bit more practice I think

 

[D66]

Feeding the horse in the trailer for a month helped enormously for us, to start with I let him back out when he wanted, but he soon relaxed enough for me to move about, change his rugs while he ate, etc. It's one thing to get the horse in and another thing entirely for it to be happy staying in there.

 

[Mike007]

Yes they can be resolved, but only if the problem is correctly identified. Also sometimes the simple fact is that the owner may not be able to resolve the problem without professional help.But I have never met a horse I couldnt load (eventually)and which didnt improve.

 

[dafthoss]

It depends on what your idea of solved is. My boy was terrible to load often taking all morning, a session with my instructor and he now loads reliably every time even in the dark. The only thing is he has to wear a chiffney its not needed, even my mum can load him, but he knows it on and then doesnt mess arround and he can wear his bridle to load on the way home. Completly solved maybe not but workable yes, as I said it depends on your definition of solved.

 

[MrsElle]

A horse I had on loan was a nightmare to load when he came to me. He was scared of everything and petrified of the lorry.

Our bond helped enormously. He trusted me implicitely (sp), and even though he was nervous, if I walked up that ramp he followed me. He knew I wouldn't let anything bad happen to him.

Not sure how he is now, if he went back to not loading when he moved on to others, but that confidence he had in me worked wonders.

I now have a stubborn loader. He isn't scared but if he decides he isn't loading, he isn't loading. He has also been known to refuse to unload too.

Give me a worried loader any day, I can work with that with time and patience, but how on earth I am going to get Fat Lad to load if he doesn't want to has got me scratching my head!

 

[nikCscott]

It depends on what your idea of solved is. My boy was terrible to load often taking all morning, a session with my instructor and he now loads reliably every time even in the dark. The only thing is he has to wear a chiffney its not needed, even my mum can load him, but he knows it on and then doesnt mess arround and he can wear his bridle to load on the way home. Completly solved maybe not but workable yes, as I said it depends on your definition of solved.

Workable - is great!

I opened this test with only one eye semi open hoping the title wasn't true!

My horse is a stubborn wotsit sometime walks on like a dope on a rope, sometimes sprints on but 60% he plants at bottom, sometimes backing him up works, sometime a lunge line, sometimes someone stood behind- BUT NEVER the same thing twice in a row!!!

It spoils lovely day out - worked so hard for 12 months to get his canter sorted plucked up courage to enter a prelim, loaded a dream to go and when there was a dream and got an amazing 62.5%- so thrilled with him then he refuses to load and it;s hard to remember all the good things he's done.

Carry on practicing- to be fair it is getting better but soooooooo sloooooooowly!

 

[MarinaBay]

My mare was a nightmare to load. I have had lots of people help me with her as she would literally pass out once moving in the trailer. It is the travelling she hates - I had a NH guy help me and when I said she throws herself on the floor he didn't believe me. Loaded her and he stood in the back with her going round the car park - she rolls her eyes in the back of her head and falls to the floor!
She will travel on the box - a renault master 3.5t but still isn't 100% happy but I think as happy as she ever will be bless her.

 

[chestnut cob]

Workable - is great!

I opened this test with only one eye semi open hoping the title wasn't true!

My horse is a stubborn wotsit sometime walks on like a dope on a rope, sometimes sprints on but 60% he plants at bottom, sometimes backing him up works, sometime a lunge line, sometimes someone stood behind- BUT NEVER the same thing twice in a row!!!

It spoils lovely day out - worked so hard for 12 months to get his canter sorted plucked up courage to enter a prelim, loaded a dream to go and when there was a dream and got an amazing 62.5%- so thrilled with him then he refuses to load and it;s hard to remember all the good things he's done.

Carry on practicing- to be fair it is getting better but soooooooo sloooooooowly!

This is my horse!!

When I got him he didn't load at all and it was downright dangerous to try. He would rear, kick, bite, everything, to avoid going on the trailer (I was told he'd never been on a trailer and it turned out fairly quickly that he's also v bad at lorry loading... will follow another horse on a lorry 100% of the time though). I had a Kelly Marks RA out who helped enormously as he also had a lot of leading and general handling issues... was rude and bargy. He is now perfect to lead, I've led him from just a piece of bailer twine around his neck before now, and is generally perfect to handle in every way. But, the loading is still not completely sorted.

He loads to go away from home about 90% of the time. On those days, he loads himself, practically drags me up the ramp. The other 10% of the time he'll take maybe 10 or 15 mins, at most half an hour. On the way out, I can easily solve it by making sure he is hungry as he will always go on for food (DISCLAIMER: I do not starve my horse!). At worst, he'll stand with two feet on the ramp and then need a piece of apple for every forwards step he takes. He's usually on within a couple of minutes.

Coming home is the biggest problem. He is usually so much more interested in whatever else is going on that he simply has no interest in the trailer - or the food! I never let him eat at a show/competition, besides his own haynet, because then he thinks "why should I load, I can eat nice grass here". Coming home from a lesson or a competition isn't usually too much of a problem as I'm sure he's thinking "get me away from here, it is hard work!". I struggle to load him when he's been somewhere that has been lots of fun... ie, XC, hunting. I struggled with loading him to come home from the meet on Saturday because he was too busy listening for hounds and simply did not want to stop having fun and come home.

The worst thing is when well meaning people come along with their bright ideas, make everything 10x worse, then tell you they have to leave... leaving you with an even more worked up horse who is now convinced there really *is* a problem with the trailer so is even more determined not to go in it! My loading probs are a lot better than when I first got my horse but they are by no means solved. The IH method of making him walk backwards when he won't go forwards no longer works... he just walks backwards of his own accord the split second before you make him. That's also not an ideal thing to be doing when you've had to park on a road at a meet. The Parelli going around in circles thing never works, just sends him loopy and makes him more stubborn. I've come to the conclusion he's just a stubborn old sod!

 

[Pocket_Rocket]

I believe it can be worked through my horse was a nightmare to load for a while I spent a few weeks of going in and out the trailer at home and now he is fab. He's not one of those horses that can be persuaded with food although I always put a haynet in the trailer and let him have a munch I also gave him treats and praised him loads once he was in. He likes the food as a reward but if I put food all over the ramp he still wouldn't go near it. Rarely he will play up now but literally all I have to do is show him the lunge lines and he's in like a shot.

I think to start with you have to decide whether the horse is genuinely scared of the trailer/lorry or whether he/she is taking the mick.I wasn't 100% sure with mine so I started off by practicing loading at home for a few weeks then we took him just around the block and back home. The funny thing was when we got back he was very reluctant to get off the trailer he stepped back a few steps then stopped looked around outside before proceeding (my trailer is rear unload) I swear he did this because he thought he was being sold again. I then hired a school about 20 mins away and took him there he was fine to load and very well behaved.

Then a few months later he started playing up rearing up and coming off the side of the trailer. It was clear he was just taking the mick I then had to try different approaches based on my horses temperament. Some horses are just stubborn and you just have to keep the pressure on as long as it takes til they go in. Where as mine would resist if you tried the pressure technique equally if you put anything around his bum that would freak him out.

My horse is a very sensitive chap and I soon learn gently tapping him on the shoulder with the lead rope would make him want to move and then it was just a case of keeping his head straight so he would walk forwards and step straight into the trailer. If I didn't keep him straight he would move forwards but turn and try to go off the side of the trailer or rear. When my horse was really naughty I got lunge lines on either side of the trailer and then tap him to ask for forwards and then he'd shoot in. The lunge lines were a god send once I realised they worked each time I wanted to load I would always give him the opportunity to go in with out them. Then if on the first attempt he decided to rear and go off the side I would get the lunge lines and put them on the trailer he would then go in like a shot.

Next time I would give him the opportunity to go in and he quickly learnt that if he didn't go in straight away then the lunge lines would be out and he would have to go in anyway so he'd just go straight in. Now very very rarely he'll play up and I only have to show him the lunge lines as a reminder and he goes straight in! With him I think it was very important to give him the opportunity to go in with out the lunge lines rather than be too forceful he's the type of horse you ask to do something then if he doesn't do it you tell him. If you tell him straight away he just refuses he needs the softly softly approach! This is why I think loading is difficult to master as they are all so individual you have to work out the horses temperament before you can find a solution to the problem.

The other thing I found is never be get wound up or stressed (easier said than done) as my horse picks up on that straight away and then gets worse and worse. This is why its good to practice at home you can take all the time in the world nice and relaxed and then once they become more reliable to box you can try the same tactic when you want to go somewhere.

Overall the key is time, patience and consistency as with most issues with horses. You have to take the view sometimes that how ever long it takes to get the horse in the trailer/lorry its going to happen. Even if you spend an hour or longer you must continue and let the horse know he/she isn't going to win. This being in the case of a horse taking the mick.

Horses that are genuinely scared you just need to take small steps at a time allow the horse to inspect the trailer/lorry try them with treats. Even if they just take some food off of the ramp that can be your first step. But if they aren't interested in food then just getting the horse to put one step on the ramp is good enough. You can then build on from that. It all depends on how scared the horse is as to how far you push him/her. It's easy to push them too far and scare them even more. My horse is was like this when I got him particularly ridden it's small steps in the right direction that is required.

Sorry for the essay! Hope this helps and gives you a bit of faith

 

[Farma]

When mine was younger it would take us hours to load her and she would come off the lorry soaked in sweat then we would have the same said drama coming back - it was a nightmare.

Now if you saw her load you would never believe she had an issue, walks on anything like a dream and will happily stand in there for hours munching her hay and I would say she is a perfect loader and traveller.

 

[eatmoremincepies]

, horse whisperers/trainers

I am one of those (not well known though)

Loading issues can definitely be resolved, but they don't always stay that way without practise & consistency.

Even with my training, my big chap can be sticky without regular practise.

When a horse gets sticky/unwilling again, you have to go through the "what's changed" checklist - inside of lorry/trailer, ramp, driving incidents, horse's physical issues, what horse is wearing, location of loading etc etc. If soemthing has changed, take it into account and practise. If not, just practise.

By practise I mean loading and unloading 10-20 times in a session, btw.

EMC

 

[chestnut cob]

I am one of those (not well known though)

Loading issues can definitely be resolved, but they don't always stay that way without practise & consistency.

Even with my training, my big chap can be sticky without regular practise.

When a horse gets sticky/unwilling again, you have to go through the "what's changed" checklist - inside of lorry/trailer, ramp, driving incidents, horse's physical issues, what horse is wearing, location of loading etc etc. If soemthing has changed, take it into account and practise. If not, just practise.

By practise I mean loading and unloading 10-20 times in a session, btw.

EMC

Feel free to come out and help me if you like! My horse is simply stubborn. I could load him 10 or 20 times in a session at home and he will load every time. I've done the Richard Maxwell "10 times in 10 days" thing. He loaded no problem, and most of the time he isn't a problem to load. He *can* do it, he isn't frightened, he is just stubborn.

I've been looking on the IH website for another KM RA to come out and do a session with us (have moved out of the area of the one who originally helped me) but there's no one I really like the look of.

 

[suestowford]

One of mine was a difficult loader and we tried many things.

All the issues melted away when I tried luring him in with Readigrass! I was lucky I suppose, to hit on the thing that he would walk through fire for, but I'm not complaining.

 

[eatmoremincepies]

Chestnut cob -be glad to but you are a bit away from Oxon! Usually in your situation there is a little bit of communication going astray between owner and horse and it takes someone on the ground with KM/RM type training to see it and sort it out. You could try John Jones, he is good and experienced. PM me if you are stuck and I will have a think about who else I know round there.

EMC

 

[showqa]

I have had a hellish time with my horse since I've had him. He's never been dangerous, but oh boy, stubborn doesn't come close to describing it. I've spent A LOT of money on "experts" showing me this technique, that technique, which would work a few times and then - back to square one. I have cried floods over this because it has totally disrupted my comp life with him.

Anyway, I had my trainer from overseas here this weekend and I'd told him in the past that he is a swine to load. So of course, trainer wanted to see it and I felt sick to my stomach as I knew my trainer would not be, shall we say, patient with him.

Anyway, true to form my horse stood on the ramp laughing at us all. Trainer got a lunge rein around him, got a lunge whip - didn't touch him with the whip once mind you. It took about 3 minutes to get him on. Trainer said to me "Get him on". I was sick to my stomach - really sick to my stomach - took the horse off the trainer, walked toward the lorry, on the horse went. Immediately. I did the same with him maybe 5 times - on he went without flinching.

Whether this will always be the case, who knows, but one thing is for sure. It was FAR MORE successful, and perfectly humane and controlled, than any of the training I have done with very very expensive "experts". What's the lesson? I have no idea!!!!

 

[skint1]

Just to clarify I wasn't saying things could never be improved, because I've seen enormous improvements that people and their horses have achieved. With a lot of help from knowledgeable people we even improved our horse (though we still had a long way to go when we turned her away-for other reasons) I just wondered if, once you had the horse loading consistently, it was reasonable to expect the horse would always continue to do so or if it was something that was always going to be a potential issue

 

[skint1]

I am one of those (not well known though)

Loading issues can definitely be resolved, but they don't always stay that way without practise & consistency.

Even with my training, my big chap can be sticky without regular practise.

When a horse gets sticky/unwilling again, you have to go through the "what's changed" checklist - inside of lorry/trailer, ramp, driving incidents, horse's physical issues, what horse is wearing, location of loading etc etc. If soemthing has changed, take it into account and practise. If not, just practise.

By practise I mean loading and unloading 10-20 times in a session, btw.

EMC

Ah, I see so perhaps practice could be the key?

 

[burtie]

Yes as long as the cause is corrected most loading issues are in fact travelling issues, either the driving style, the vehicle (too small/big/noisy etc) or the direction of travel. Of course working out what is the actually problem and resolving the loading issue can be a bit of a task!

 

[eatmoremincepies]

Ah, I see so perhaps practice could be the key?

If you're lucky - once it's fixed it's fixed.

If not - you just need to practise from time to time, make tiem to do it when you're not in a rush.

Btw if you have a "will load at home but no chance at a show" then practise loading in different locations, first different places around your yard and then when you're out & about. Try to do 10-20 times - tempting to just pop them on and go, but if they tend to be sticky you will suffer for it sooner or later!

 

[chestnut cob]

Chestnut cob -be glad to but you are a bit away from Oxon! Usually in your situation there is a little bit of communication going astray between owner and horse and it takes someone on the ground with KM/RM type training to see it and sort it out. You could try John Jones, he is good and experienced. PM me if you are stuck and I will have a think about who else I know round there.

EMC

It does need someone experienced, IMHO. A couple of years ago I spoke to one of the local RAs on the phone... she suggested a few things, all of which I was already doing and which the horse will always do. Her answer was "oh, well there isn't really anything else you can try apart from maybe buy a different trailer". Not ideal! The stock answer seems to be "buy a lorry" but he's actually much much worse in a lorry. I can always get him on the trailer (usually immediately but sometimes takes longer) but have never yet managed to load onto a lorry without following another horse. He knows the trailer and is comfortable in it. He's a funny horse... if he's going to refuse, he'll stand there with his front feet on the ramp then dither about putting a back foot on. The first back foot always goes on pretty quickly but then he takes a while to decide about the other. Once the second back foot it on, he's on the trailer and never goes backwards, but it's convincing him to put that second back foot on. When he is on the trailer, you could leave all of the ramps down and walk off without tying him up. He always stays where he is, isn't frightened at all. He'll stand on there all day eating a haynet. On Sat I plaited and tacked up on the trailer - he doesn't move a muscle, doesn't stress or panic. When travelling he doesn't move, kick or stress. People have followed me and said he doesn't look at all bothered by being in the trailer/ travelling.

He just doesn't like leaving exciting parties!

I'd actually really like to go down for one of the KM courses at her yard but they always seem to be full months in advance.

 

[LaurenBay]

It can be resolved. With patience and calmness!

My Horse is a difficult loader. She will load herself on to the lorry but the trailor is a no go! She's never been on one before and has always lived out so fearful of small spaces. I had a problem getting her in a stable too, but thats sorted now and she now loves coming in at night.

I've tried everything! apart from getting a professional. I want to do this myself and I will do it. I love a challenge I did get her to a stage where I could walk her through the trailor and of the other side calmly. Unfourtantly one day when I was practicing loading, my YO's son decicded to fly a motorised plane over the top of the trailor, it scared her so much, she realised she was in such a small space and bolted of the other side. Now I can't get her to walk calmly. She goes on, walks through, as soon as her body is in she panics and bolts off. Food doesn't work either.

I know it's not the ramp, she will walk on calmly. Plus when she bolted of she knocked her food over. I was stood on the floor and she went back up the ramp by herself to eat the spilt food It's not the traveling. She wil load herself on to a lorry. It's just the small space she is having trouble with.

Have given her a break though, I was doing it with her weekly so I think a break will do her good. We WILL get there though.

 

[nikCscott]

Feel free to come out and help me if you like! My horse is simply stubborn. I could load him 10 or 20 times in a session at home and he will load every time. I've done the Richard Maxwell "10 times in 10 days" thing. He loaded no problem, and most of the time he isn't a problem to load. He *can* do it, he isn't frightened, he is just stubborn.

Our horses are so similar- mine will load 20 times a day at home even if i load and go on a little round trip come home get him out then put him straight back in. Just places with fun and friends. Jumping lessons he will loads form as he's knackered but everything else nightmare!

We practice lots at home and I have a weekly lesson and try to compete 3 times a month so he gets lots practice. Once we get all 4 feet on ramp he wanders in and travels a dream tucking into his hay net- not a drop of sweat and in no rush to get off the other end happily stand there with the ramp open whilst I do entries etc.
SO FRUSTRATING-- but I don't show him that- that will mean he's won!

 

[a kind of magic]

Haven't read all the other replies but I would say it can be resolved.

My hubby's mare is very stubborn by nature and the first time we tried to load her she flatly refused to go in the trailer, or in a lorry. I booked an appointment with our local Monty Roberts RA (who has helped me all the way along with their groundwork) and she got hubby's stubborn miss loading beautifully. The next time we had to move her she planted on the ramp but I swapped the headcollar for the Dually halter and she 'got it' and walked straight on.

The time after that...she walked straight up the ramp no problem and the following time when the same RA was loading her son using the same methods (she was loose in the pen) she walked straight in the trailer by herself with no handler!

She trailer trained my stallion when he was a baby, he always loads beautifully and she is doing some remedial training on another VERY awkward mare who with every visit gets much better, she doesn't revert back to old habits, so I don't think they are a lost cause.

 

[eatmoremincepies]

CC, would disagree with the person you spoke to on the phone, it's not so much what you do as how, a few tweaks to the "how" can make a big difference.

CCC & LaurenBay - If you have a front unload ramp, it's worth walking them in through the front ramp and out down the back ramp (ideally take all the partitions out so there's plenty of space) - obv check this is safe. Going through in a different direction can break the cycle of being unwilling to go on, and make them more wiling to do it the proper way round. (NB don't travel backwards unless the trailer is designed for it as the weight distribution woudl be all wrong. ) Of course there are loads of other factors too and I don't want to try and diagnose over the internet!

Courses - Kelly's are usually booked up as people wanting to qualify have to do them, plus it's quite hard to organise difficult loaders to work with. Most of the RAs should be able to teach you this stuff but some are more experienced than other. John Jones is v experienced and I'm pretty sure does courses so worth a try. Useful skill to have!

 

[LaurenM]

My gelding wouldn't put a single hoof on the ramp. I had a ihra out & by the end he was walking on himself. It takes practice and know how. I would see mine as a 100% improvement

 

[LaurenBay]

CC, would disagree with the person you spoke to on the phone, it's not so much what you do as how, a few tweaks to the "how" can make a big difference.

CCC & LaurenBay - If you have a front unload ramp, it's worth walking them in through the front ramp and out down the back ramp (ideally take all the partitions out so there's plenty of space) - obv check this is safe. Going through in a different direction can break the cycle of being unwilling to go on, and make them more wiling to do it the proper way round. (NB don't travel backwards unless the trailer is designed for it as the weight distribution woudl be all wrong. ) Of course there are loads of other factors too and I don't want to try and diagnose over the internet!

Courses - Kelly's are usually booked up as people wanting to qualify have to do them, plus it's quite hard to organise difficult loaders to work with. Most of the RAs should be able to teach you this stuff but some are more experienced than other. John Jones is v experienced and I'm pretty sure does courses so worth a try. Useful skill to have!

Will deffiently give that a try. Thank you!

 

[POLLDARK]

In the past I have bought two horses who were very bad loaders. Time & patience sorted it out & both ended up being very easy to load. Though one would never load if someone walked past behind him (having been badly beaten in all loading situations before I had him) but as soon as they went he went sweetly on the trailer.

 

[chestnut cob]

CC, would disagree with the person you spoke to on the phone, it's not so much what you do as how, a few tweaks to the "how" can make a big difference.

CCC & LaurenBay - If you have a front unload ramp, it's worth walking them in through the front ramp and out down the back ramp (ideally take all the partitions out so there's plenty of space) - obv check this is safe. Going through in a different direction can break the cycle of being unwilling to go on, and make them more wiling to do it the proper way round. (NB don't travel backwards unless the trailer is designed for it as the weight distribution woudl be all wrong. ) Of course there are loads of other factors too and I don't want to try and diagnose over the internet!

Courses - Kelly's are usually booked up as people wanting to qualify have to do them, plus it's quite hard to organise difficult loaders to work with. Most of the RAs should be able to teach you this stuff but some are more experienced than other. John Jones is v experienced and I'm pretty sure does courses so worth a try. Useful skill to have!

My horse would be perfect to go to a KM course as a bad loader for them all to work with - he loads to leave home nearly 100% of the time, it's the coming home he doesn't like! My problem with RAs (or similar) is that they all want to come to me, which isn't really that much good. I need to go *to* someone so I can practise coming back home!

I might try loading the wrong way and see what happens. I did look at JJ's website yesterday actually but wasn't sure if he might be a bit "fluffy" for me. The RA who helped me before I moved back up here was fantastic, v pragmatic and not in the slightest bit fluffy. Not saying there's anything wrong with fluffy but I don't want to ride my horse in a Dually or have him standing on barrels. He will do absolutely all of the exercises in KM's Perfect Manners book, in just a headcollar or even without one. He got wise to the Dually quickly and now just rears if it's put on (without me even using it)... many years of being led and loaded in a chifney, I think (before I got him). I might give JJ a call but it seems a lot of money to pay for what may essentially just be a couple of "tweaks" to stuff I'm doing already.