Loading issues

[tda]

This might sound crazy but have you tried him on a SMALLER lorry? If he'll go up a less steep ramp, maybe a 3.5T (properly built for a horse his size) might work? Obviously you'd have to travel him on his own.

That's what I thought too. EDITjust seen you've tried that
Can't offer any other assistance as my pony (who has always been a bit sticky to load but traveled quietly and doesn't get distressed ) has totally lost the plot and won't even walk thru the open trailer without exploding. Trying a 3.5 ton lorry this week, but if that doesn't work I'll try Michael peace or similar

 

[ROMANY 1959]

One of mine would have issues in a 7:5 ton with steep ramp. But traveled like a dream in a bckward facing 3:5 ton with a shallow ramp , can you hire a small 3:5 ton backwards facing see what happens

 

[SibeliusMB]

I do partially agree but why some days does he just jumps on no questions asked, tuck into his food straight away ect, he doesn’t rush to get off he quite happily stands in there and watches the world go by.

Well...you are right, I don't know your horse personally, but based on what you have written here I'd guess any of the following could be causes:
-Trigger stacking. For instance, your example of when practing at home he's usually fine...but then you took him somewhere and then he wouldn't load back on the lorry so you have to hack him home. This sounds like a classic example of trigger stacking. Going to a new place, being away from friends, etc can all be triggers and while he may deal with it outwardly, internally he's stressing and each trigger builds on another until it's too much.
-You're in a hurry or becoming frustrated (even slightly) and he senses you're acting differently
- Changes in the environment you may or may not sense
- Etc, etc.

I think you know your own horse better than anyone else and I am very confident there is no fear there and he is actually just taking the p*ss, yeah he probably would rather not load but I just can’t wrap by head around why he is fine sometimes, we tried for 3 hours a few weeks back… point blank no then it started pouring down (he isn’t a fan of rain) and he just happily walked on

If the uncomfortable space of the lorry is less uncomfortable for him than standing out in pouring rain, then that's a perfectly valid explanation for just walking on in that moment. It doesn't have to necessarily be "fear" so much as not feeling secure or not feeling like you have control.

It's so easy for us humans to apply very human behaviors ("taking the p*ss") to horses because it makes more sense to us, and it doesn't require us to try to see the world from the horse's perspective, which is difficult. That requires us to check what we think we know and be open to new explanations. If you're not really open to doing that, then I'm afraid you may be in for more 3-hour loading sessions and hacking home.

 

[Annagain]

I do partially agree but why some days does he just jumps on no questions asked, tuck into his food straight away ect, he doesn’t rush to get off he quite happily stands in there and watches the world go by. I think you know your own horse better than anyone else and I am very confident there is no fear there and he is actually just taking the p*ss, yeah he probably would rather not load but I just can’t wrap by head around why he is fine sometimes, we tried for 3 hours a few weeks back… point blank no then it started pouring down (he isn’t a fan of rain) and he just happily walked on

There could be all sorts of reason. He might have had a scare in the field meaning he wants the security of his friends and doesn't want to leave them, the wind might be blowing in a different direction making a strange noise or the sun shining differently and reflecting or making the box darker. In Charlie's case there was a bit of pain there and as we all know from our own niggles, some days are better than others with a bad back.

Your demeanour might be slightly different certain days too. When you're practising and don't have a care in the world or a time limit, you might sub-consciously be calmer than when you HAVE to get him on. Even when practising you might be slightly more stressed or annoyed due to other factors when starting and he's picking up on it.

I had to stick to a routine with Charlie and do everything in exactly the same order, if I deviated from it he'd know and would be reluctant to go on. He was better leaving the yard than coming home, mainly I think as he'd get stressed at events so he'd form attachments to horses around him and then not want to leave them. He was generally much calmer at home so the trigger stacking hadn't started.

 

[Bobthecob15]

We had similar with our pony, we had a natural horsemanship lady come and help and it really did make a difference. Sometimes they have a bad experience that can put them off, even a bumpy road or change in tire pressures can affect how they travel...even a trip to somewhere they didn't like (vets, etc). We used a pressure halter very gently, once he moves forwards we immediately release. This massively helps...hours and hours of practice getting on then off again and slowly getting him used to having the ramp up, then a very short travelling distance etc...he self loads sometimes now but can still stop at the ramp occasionally. We switched to a 6.5T horsebox and he seems happier in that than our old trailer (which had brake issues we finally realised!). Being a pony he also tends to run on when he sees a bucket of feed at the top!

I've used Richard Maxwell years ago with another horse, he was brilliant but at £400 a pop now he's not cheap. Perhaps see if there are any other natural horsemanship people about because understanding the cause of the refusal is useful.

 

[oldie48]

I also have used the Richard Maxwell halter + method on two horses. The first wouldn't load at all and would just run backwards at speed, the second would sometimes load quite happily but other times would step onto the ramp and then run backwards. Neither were worried about travelling and once on they travelled well, came off quietly and did not sweat up. After following the training suggested on the video, both loaded within 10 minutes and I never had a problem again. I've also found the halter excellent for leading bolshy horses.

 

[Landcruiser]

OP, having visited The Channel Islands and driven on those roads, I would suggest an 18 ton lorry is not something you want to be driving there! Also, if you transport to UK ever, it will be much more expensive. 1 horse in a 7.5 should be fine as long as it's tall enough for him?
IME the "switching off" on the ramp, and/or looking around is a displacement/evasion activity. I would absolutely get in an IH trainer or Richard Maxwell as suggested, because they'll not only sort out the horse but give you the tools to carry on yourself. I think "sticky" horses which travel well are incredibly common. Force is counter productive (because they just apply counter force and things escalate). The trick is NOT to let them switch off, keep them focussed on you/the inside of the lorry, and keep their feet moving until they realise the place they will get a nice rest (and preferably a nice bit of a feed) is on the lorry.

 

[Bobthecob15]

Yes my pressure halter is the Richard Maxwell one, its great x

 

[bubsqueaks]

Ive had a planter before which I resolved using the Richard Maxwell pressure halter & his techniques of working them before loading to get them listening & settled.
Yesterday I was watching some Michael Peace youngster videos & he has some loading videos too, & all his observations about tricky/nervous horses can be applied to most situations so would recommend watching.
He explains that once they have learnt behaviour you need to strip it back down to the very basics again etc etc
I always got the impression our tricky loader didnt like the steepness of our 6.5 ton ramp or the whole layout - loading in a trailer she was fine.

 

[Birker2020]

Next time you have issues try making him walk backwards away from the ramp in a straight line, then lead him towards the ramp again and repeat and repeat and repeat. Eventually he will get bored and go straight in. Both Monty and Kelly Marks were insistent that the horse wasn't circled away from the ramp and this was the same in the case with the behaviourist Grant Bazin.

Sometimes Bails would end up at a 45 degree angle to the trailer ramp but Grant wasn't concerned and pressure on the dually would encourage her to move foward so her front legs would go on the ramp and she could piroutte her way onto the ramp by moving her quarters over. There is no reason to think a horse can't do this, sometime they want to make us believe that we have to start again neatly lined up at the bottom of the ramp but this simply isn't the case.

Grant was certain she wasn't scared, hence the floppy ears and lower lip, half shut eyes.