Loading problems not so solved :L

TeddylikeSecretariat

TeddylikeSecretariat

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Hello :)
im having a little trouble loading my horse basically :L
we have tried everything from ratting his feed bucket to bringing a lunge rein round his legs and tight circles :L
each of these things worked about 2 or the times but he soon got wise and now completely refuse to anywhere near the trailer...
he just backs away and has reared a few times and is getting so annoying as i travel quit alot :L once he is in the trailer he is practically...fine but is a little bargy and kicks about a bit but thats another story :L

any adivice greatfully recieved!!!
Thanks very much :D
 
do you travel facing forwards, herringbone (if horsebox) or rear facing? If in a trailer do you have him partitioned or not?

answers to above can affect how happy the horse is to travel, you may find just by providing more space he stops stomping around and kicking so much, and if happier to travel and be in the trailer then happier to load. The other thing I personally would recommend for loading is a be nice halter. Just keep light pressure on the rope until the horse moves a step forward then release and then do the same again, the horse will soon learn that forwards movement gets a reward and backwards (or upwards) is uncomfortable. Don't yank on them or tie them up with them. In the right hands I've found these halters to be a gods send. Also just general feeding in the trailer/box when not travelling anywhere will improve loading.
 
i travel facing forwards in a ifor williams with a partition, so yeh ill try him with the partition out... if i can :)
yeh i had heard of a halter and think that would be a great way to get him in!! yeh ill try him with the feeding thing too :)
hopefully it'll work :D
great advice thanks so much :D
 
hiya we had exactly the same problems with our mare!! shes very sensitive so trying to force her in did NOT work!! :/
we also tried putting our gelding in first to give her reasurance but that didnt work either xx
what we find did work was opening up the partition to give her a nice open, inviting space., it really encouraged her in and didnt make her feel inclosed. we just led her straight up the ramp and didnt make a fuss. she still hesitates a bit, but she always goes in after a bit of gental encouragement. we dont force her we just let her take her time. each time it takes less and less time. infact last time she went straight in. also we reward her with lots of treats once shes in. (shes a bit of a foody so this really helped)
so yeah,thats our story x
dont know if this will help, but i always love to share my pearls of wisdom so to speak :D xxx
good luck xxx :D


also i have heard lots of people say give them there daily feed in there, but we couldnt do this as we didnt have the trailor available all the time xxxx
 
oops sory just read the previous posts and they say pretty much the exact same thing as i just wrote :o
sorrrryyy xxxxx
goood luck xxxxx
 
haha thats pretty much exactly like mine :L arg haha!!
yeh i think im gonna do that feeding in there daily :) hehe see if that tempts him in :) yeh i really hope it works, and hopefully he will get better in time too as he has only been with us a few months :)
thanks so much for ur help and for the good luck :D i ave a feeling im gonna need it :d hehe xxx
 
95% of the time when horses do not load they are taking the mickey of their handlers.

When he refuses to go near the trailer have someone behind with a lunge whip and crack it behind him - if he still refuses give him a couple of hard cracks across the back legs to send him forward.

If he messes about let him know it is not acceptable
 
personally I will never transport my horses in a trailer - If you have ever been un/lucky enough to stay with the horse whilst in transit (in a trailer) you will note how uncomfortable the journey is for the horse, the suspension is lax resulting in a fairly bumpy and unstable ride (even driving at max 20mph).

If a trailer id your only method of transport then take a trip with him to see how it really is.

To get a horse to 'like' being in a trailer you do need to be patient and feed him inside.
 
Take the partition out. Open the box up-front ramp down . Take the day to sort the problem. Put a rope halter on the horse, if you are competent to use one. Attach lunge rope.
Use pressure and release, potentially plus the use of feed/lunge ropes/parking beside a wall to get horse through the trailer, I mean up the back ramp and down the front. Do this over and over again until he is not rushing and does not need pressure.
Then put the front bar up, let him stand and eat feed. Unload him via the front ramp. Then start putting the back bar up. Then break for the day once he is settled.
You will end up with a horse who will load every time and if he hesitates in the future, understands the routine of getting on and off so will get used to the idea of when you put pressure on he will go on the box.
You may need to make sure he understands pressure and release first, i.e moves foward/backward well from you.
 
Foxhunter49 said:
95% of the time when horses do not load they are taking the mickey of their handlers.

When he refuses to go near the trailer have someone behind with a lunge whip and crack it behind him - if he still refuses give him a couple of hard cracks across the back legs to send him forward.

If he messes about let him know it is not acceptable
Click to expand...

Well, you could follow this advice if you wanted to.

The horse you have isn't taking the mickey, in fact it's not about the trailer at all, it's about trust. He needs to trust you.

You need to build a trusting relationship with your horse, cracking him hard across the back legs with a whip will teach your horse that you are not to be trusted.

http://youtu.be/IQF2wfZmyeE
 
Pale Rider said:
Well, you could follow this advice if you wanted to.

The horse you have isn't taking the mickey, in fact it's not about the trailer at all, it's about trust. He needs to trust you.

You need to build a trusting relationship with your horse, cracking him hard across the back legs with a whip will teach your horse that you are not to be trusted.

http://youtu.be/IQF2wfZmyeE
Click to expand...

I agree it is a matter of trust - however, when a horse is being totally disobedient, by running back and rearing then it needs to be corrected hard and fast - as it would be in a herd environment.
Correction, done immediately, at the moment of disobedience will never loose a horses trust. it is accepted as "OK, that is not going to work."

It is also very much the attitude of the handler. The moment a person thinks, "Is he or is he not going to load?" then the horse will sense it -if the handler is quietly determined, confident and positive then odds are that the horse will load straight off.

In many years of being around horses I have seen horses that are difficult to load. I have also seen accidents to bit human and horse in trying to load.
The softly, softly approach is great if the handler knows what they are doing but, there are times, when a horse pushers its luck and a crack at the right time makes it realise that a no nonsense touch solves the problem.
 
Sometimes there's no point loading a horse if the horse isn't calm once he's inside the trailer. It's only going to lead to anxiety and accidents, and isn't a way to build trust for future travelling.

So if it was me, I would set aside a whole day, park up the trailer in a place where you could work the horse outside the trailer as well as practise loading (field or arena etc), and then set about making the trailer the comfortable place to be, and just build up little by little how much you expect from your horse.

A bit like the "getting warmer, getting warmer" game we used to play as kids. As he "gets warmer", which might just be walking within a few metres of the trailer, all pressure comes off and he gets to chill out. If he chooses to go nowhere near the trailer, that's fine, but he just gets to do a little calm work instead. Then you invite him to walk near the trailer again. Then, gradually you get more specific, and he only "gets warmer" if he stands on the ramp, and then if he puts two feet in the trailer etc. And build every step of the way like that. No heroics. Takes as long as it takes for your horse to be ready to take the next step.

It can take a while first time, but it's a great way to build trust, and allow your horse to find that the trailer is an ok place to be. Well worth it in the long run.

Sarah
 
Ours sometimes did this too although he was fine when he was on. I now always load him with a Eskidron halter on (the one with the chain) & the front ramp down. If he plants I get someone to just wave a whip behind him (don't touch him with it) then he goes on & gets a treat. He was getting far too dangerous when he used to rear - I have to load up on a single lane road - the day he reared, pulled away & ran off into someone's garden who has small children is the day I bought the halter, & now it works everytime. He's wasn't scared, just taking the p@#s. xx
 
Hi, A friend of mine had a problem loader. She tried the dually halter, it worked a couple of times, then stopped working. She tried the lunge line and lunge whip, that also worked a couple of times, but after that he either lashed out or reared.

What she is doing now is putting the lunge line over his head, as if you were going to lunge, then pass it round his backside, then back through his head collar. It works a treat. She is able to load him herself and gives alot more control. It works like one of thse easy loader thingys you can buy!
 
Just watched as brilliant but long set of DVDs by Norm Glenn from About Australia Horsemanship called "Horse loading".
You watch him load three bad loaders from start to finish - and they all start with ground work - in the end he has the horses loading themselves whilst he sits on one of the wheel arches of the "float" (obviously Austrailian for trailler!) - brilliant! He has some ones with real attitude rearing right in his face, but even these calm down.
Def worth a view.....not sure if you can pick them up at Amazon or similar, my friend lent me this one.
 
Foxhunter49 said:
95% of the time when horses do not load they are taking the mickey of their handlers.
Click to expand...

That's a pretty general statement to make, and one with which I can't agree. I find that a large percentage of the horses I am asked to work with have been made difficult to load by that sort of attitude from well-meaning, but ill-informed amateurs. Add this

Foxhunter49 said:
When he refuses to go near the trailer have someone behind with a lunge whip and crack it behind him - if he still refuses give him a couple of hard cracks across the back legs to send him forward
Click to expand...

into the equation and you have the main reason horses become difficult to load....they are terrified of going into the box and being trapped in there by whip-wielding, rushing-to-shut-them-in idiots.

I am working with such a mare at the moment. She is by Secundus, so everyone immediately assumes she will be difficult and obtuse; she has been forced and huckled into a lorry by those who had no idea or time to do it properly. As a result, she is terrified of anyone moving around behind the box.

I have done three and a half hours' work with her, over two sessions, and her owner can now load her easily. Her next session will involve learning to stay on the box while the partition is brought round. This mare has been encouraged to load with just the use of a pressure halter, and she has been willing to do so as long as there are no 'helpers' behind.

Foxhunter49 said:
If he messes about let him know it is not acceptable.
Click to expand...

Please don't apply this attitude...^^^...If he messes about, try to establish the reasons for that and help him learn without fear or force.
 
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Taking control of the horses feet via the use of some simple groundwork exercises, away from the trailer initially is effective at establishing you, in the eyes of the horse, as a trustworthy and confident leader. This will also help the horse to understand the concept of pressure and release.
It is quite obvious, as far as I am concerned, that inflicting pain on the horse whilst trying to load will make it more likely for him to refuse to go near the trailer in the future. And will do nothing to build his trust in you as a handler.

Take a look at the link
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TU6L9uz3ktg
 
winterwood said:
Taking control of the horses feet via the use of some simple groundwork exercises, away from the trailer initially is effective at establishing you, in the eyes of the horse, as a trustworthy and confident leader. This will also help the horse to understand the concept of pressure and release.
It is quite obvious, as far as I am concerned, that inflicting pain on the horse whilst trying to load will make it more likely for him to refuse to go near the trailer in the future. And will do nothing to build his trust in you as a handler.

Take a look at the link
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TU6L9uz3ktg
Click to expand...

Thanks so, so much for your help!! I'll try tomorrow!! thank you:)
 
Foxhunter49 said:
I agree it is a matter of trust - however, when a horse is being totally disobedient, by running back and rearing then it needs to be corrected hard and fast - as it would be in a herd environment.
Correction, done immediately, at the moment of disobedience will never loose a horses trust. it is accepted as "OK, that is not going to work."

It is also very much the attitude of the handler. The moment a person thinks, "Is he or is he not going to load?" then the horse will sense it -if the handler is quietly determined, confident and positive then odds are that the horse will load straight off.

In many years of being around horses I have seen horses that are difficult to load. I have also seen accidents to bit human and horse in trying to load.
The softly, softly approach is great if the handler knows what they are doing but, there are times, when a horse pushers its luck and a crack at the right time makes it realise that a no nonsense touch solves the problem.
Click to expand...

Do you know what my dear, I am all for firmness and discipline, but Id love to see you 'correct' some of the horses Ive known along the years with this approach. Actually, Id go one further and say that if I ever saw someone using that approach with one of my horses I would probably rip the whip out of their hand and use it on you. I know one horse who ended up being terrified because someone walked up behind her and gave her a 'timely and appropriate correction' across the ass with a leather headcollar.... completely ruined her, she was a nervous wreck around trailers after that, luckily I got someone in with far more brains and sensitivity who had her loading in less than 5 mins, after loading and unloading some 40 times that day, we never had a problem again.
 
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I,m with Foxhunter on this one. Rearing is a horses way of saying"look how big and strong I am ,you,d better not cross me pall !"The way to deal with a rearer is to keep them at the foot of the ramp and keep provoking the rear.The higher the better. Keep him at it .The only need for a whip is if he tries to rear and back up. He must keep coming down back at the same spot.Rearing is a sign of strength in a hores world,because it takes a lot of physical effort to lift over half a tonne several feet in the air. Believe me ,by the time he has reared maybe 80 times ,he wants to stop!So you let him stand for a few minutes (just long enough for him to stiffen up;)) Then you provoke him again. Then when he really wants for it all to end ,he will quietly walk in. Disbelieve me if you want,but all I will say is that I have never owned a bad loader and I have never once failed to load someone elses bad loader (and they become good loaders too)
 
Mike007 said:
I,m with Foxhunter on this one. Rearing is a horses way of saying"look how big and strong I am ,you,d better not cross me pall !"The way to deal with a rearer is to keep them at the foot of the ramp and keep provoking the rear.The higher the better. Keep him at it .The only need for a whip is if he tries to rear and back up. He must keep coming down back at the same spot.Rearing is a sign of strength in a hores world,because it takes a lot of physical effort to lift over half a tonne several feet in the air. Believe me ,by the time he has reared maybe 80 times ,he wants to stop!So you let him stand for a few minutes (just long enough for him to stiffen up;)) Then you provoke him again. Then when he really wants for it all to end ,he will quietly walk in. Disbelieve me if you want,but all I will say is that I have never owned a bad loader and I have never once failed to load someone elses bad loader (and they become good loaders too)
Click to expand...

Thank you, you've just reaffirmed my view that its people like you who give the term 'breaking a horse in' its bad name...:rolleyes:

IF it werent for your number of posts I would assume you were trolling

So you would argue that horses are purely obstinate and are never fearful of loading... how truly insightful and experienced of you.

I had a very experienced well respected trainer tell me 'it may be that she will need a hard hand and a crack but just cant take it off you' within minutes of him seeing my mare he assesed that 'force' would not work, as she was genuinely scared witlless.

I personally dont want to turn any horse into a zombie and 'break it' sure there are the obstinate pigs in the equine world who do try it on and I am not disputing this fact... but such a sweeping ignorant statement as you have posted... shows to me a lack of humanity and I would go so far as to say cruelty to 'provoke a horse continually' just to beat it out of him and teach it a lesson. Just because it works doesnt make it right, especially when other methods work effectively and quickly without force.

And I have never 'owned a bad loader' simply cured those I purchased who were bad loaders... Im sure as quickly as you did too... without violence or provocation
 
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The post concerned a horse that reared at the foot of the ramp. In my experience that is almost always a sign of obstinacy not fear. Perhaps when you have learned to reccognise the difference you will understand .I have loaded just about every type of horse.I at no point said that this particular method applied to all cases,but it most definately applies to the obstinate cusses. Probably the worst ones to load are the traffic accidents .You can have to be quite firm with them too sometimes because they want to just give up.But being firm is not the same as being cruel,far from it! As for provoking them to continue rearing. Its their game, they want to play it,but they cant simply stop ,they need to learn that the game is not much fun .So you keep them at it . Eventualy the last thing they want to do is throw their weight around .
 
My girl was a rearer... Do not patronise me by assuming I can't tell a rude bolshy pig of a horse, from a scared, uncertain horse needing a gentle reassuring approach. My pony was the former my mare the latter... Although both were fixed permanently with a non aggressive approach. You know nothing about my abilities or experience to accuse me of not being able to read a horse or a situation. I only thank god that people who see beating horses into submission are a dying breed, and I am by no means a bunny hugger, I have no problem with reprimand when it's appropriate but to use it simply because it's all you have in your repetoir is very sad.
 
Yeah, rock on foxhunter, that'll do the trick, add a few slash cuts across his hind legs for good measure. That'll definitely teach him not to be scared of the trailer! Jeez.

OP - haven't read to the end because I was staggered at foxhunter's reply. You need to do tons and tons of groundwork to show your horse you can be trusted and thus respected. But really bad loaders are an expert area, get your timing wrong and you'll make things worse, not better. I'd recommend finding a good NH trainer - Richard Maxwell, Michael Peace, Kelly Marks are all brilliant and would do the classic "tell, show and do" with you so that you have the tools to continue after the expert has gone.
 
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