Loan contract

[ycbm]

Just want to say thank you for all the advice as well everyone I found it a tricky situation to navigate as I am honestly horrible with confrontation and you guys really helped!

You've done extremely well if you have issues with confrontation. Stick to your guns, your horse needs you at his back.
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[jhoward]

Is this definitely the case? It's a contract, why is it not legally binding?

We had reports on the forum lost year of a court case lost over a few words in a text that gave the verdict in favour of the claimant who had a part loan horse removed shortly after they had paid for its transport to the stables. I don't understand why a contract on paper and signed would not be legally binding.
.

Most agreements are not.
Whilst 2 parties sign it agreed it can mean very little.
Most agreements of any sort need to be signed off by a legal professional.

Is this definitely the case? It's a contract, why is it not legally binding?

We had reports on the forum lost year of a court case lost over a few words in a text that gave the verdict in favour of the claimant who had a part loan horse removed shortly after they had paid for its transport to the stables. I don't understand why a contract on paper and signed would not be legally binding.
.

It was always designed as a template not a legal document
I do belive the original one on the BHS website was put together by forum member Janetgeorge.

 

[LadyGascoyne]

Most agreements are not.
Whilst 2 parties sign it agreed it can mean very little.
Most agreements of any sort need to be signed off by a legal professional.

It was always designed as a template not a legal document
I do belive the original one on the BHS website was put together by forum member Janetgeorge.

I think you need to be a bit careful with this advice.

Some agreements may not be legal as there is a chance that with non-professionals, they will have filled in / amended / botched the template in such a way that it doesn’t hang together properly and doesn’t meet the basic requirements for a valid contract.

If a loan contract has been drafted correctly, then there is absolutely no reason that there wouldn’t be a legally binding commitment between the parties.

The BHS loan agreement is a template but it is designed to be a legal document, and the BHS suggests that a legal professional reviews the changes. They point you to getting proper legal advice for breaches, and they provide legal advice for gold members.

Loaning A Horse: Horse Loan Tips & Advice | The British Horse Society

Loaning a horse can be beneficial for both a loanee and owner for many different reasons

www.bhs.org.uk

Is it that you mean that breaching the terms of a loan contract would be a civil matter not a criminal matter?

 

[ycbm]

Most agreements of any sort need to be signed off by a legal professional.

This is absolutely not true. A contract does not even have to be on paper, it can be verbal. It can be by text messaging with no signatures. It's a common fallacy that contracts have to be on paper and signed, and they don't even have to be that, never mind signed off by a legal professional.

In case you think I'm talking rubbish, here's one of many legal firms, saying

Some contracts must be in writing to be enforceable. Most don't.
Many businesses make the mistake that if there is no written contract, there cannot be a contract. The rules apply to oral contracts as well, and those formed by conduct of the parties.

.

Legally Binding Contracts & Terms: Basics of Contract Law

When is a contract formed? Tell the difference between a contract and what isn't a contract. If it's not a contract, it's not legally binding

hallellis.co.uk

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[JBM]

I think I’ve accidentally started a whole different kinda debate

 

[JBM]

As an extra question would anyone know a reasonable amount of time to see weight gain on a horse out of work I know it takes time but it’s now summer so weight gain should be easier

 

[tda]

As an extra question would anyone know a reasonable amount of time to see weight gain on a horse out of work I know it takes time but it’s now summer so weight gain should be easier

I brought one of my mares back from a loan last autumn, she had lost a considerable amount of weight.
It has taken about til now for her to look anything like, but it was done slowly as she's a native pony she's had ad-lib forage since being home with some supplementary hard feed

 

[JBM]

I brought one of my mares back from a loan last autumn, she had lost a considerable amount of weight.
It has taken about til now for her to look anything like, but it was done slowly as she's a native pony she's had ad-lib forage since being home with some supplementary hard feed

I’m going to be seeing him every week to check in on him but I was giving around 3 weeks to see some improvement obviously not where he should be but I’m not sure if that’s a fair time frame

 

[AmyMay]

I’m going to be seeing him every week to check in on him but I was giving around 3 weeks to see some improvement obviously not where he should be but I’m not sure if that’s a fair time frame

Anything that’s looking poor through lack of food should start to pick up relatively quickly once the calories are going in. Take a picture (same position) every week, and take a weight tape so that you can also measure every week. No significant improvement after a month and I’d call it in relation to the loan.

 

[JBM]

Anything that’s looking poor through lack of food should start to pick up relatively quickly once the calories are going in. Take a picture (same position) every week, and take a weight tape so that you can also measure every week. No significant improvement after a month and I’d call it in relation to the loan.

Will do thank you very helpful

 

[LadyGascoyne]

If he has no underlying health issues, and is grazing properly, I would expect to see a difference pretty quickly.

Especially what you’re seeing in terms of being tucked up - with proper access to forage, feed and not being over exercised, I’d expect to see that improve within 3 weeks.

 

[blitznbobs]

Most agreements are not.
Whilst 2 parties sign it agreed it can mean very little.
Most agreements of any sort need to be signed off by a legal professional.

This is so not true - unless the law has changed since my law degree.

The ONLY contracts that need to be even in writing (english law) pertain to the sale of land.

For another contract to be valid there needs to be ‘an offer’ an acceptance of the offer and some form of compensation (doesnt have to be money) this can be decided in any way the two parties see fit.

 

[blitznbobs]

I’m going to be seeing him every week to check in on him but I was giving around 3 weeks to see some improvement obviously not where he should be but I’m not sure if that’s a fair time frame

It really depends on the horse and the food- i have a mare that I struggle to put weight on and have been seriously concerned all winter but she stops eating when she is full. However on lush cheshire spring grass (usually my total enemy) she is looking well covered for the first time in her life and the change was almost instant (within a week I could see the difference)

 

[ycbm]

As an extra question would anyone know a reasonable amount of time to see weight gain on a horse out of work I know it takes time but it’s now summer so weight gain should be easier

I would expect about a week unless he has teeth issues or Cushings or similar.

 

[JBM]

Thank you for all the replies
He has no issues but can be a bad doer. Although he really was in great condition when I had him.
Will let You guys know how it progresses

 

[JBM]

Just a small update
Horse is back home and getting 24/7 turnout on good grass and hard feed twice a day so should start to do much better

 

[AmyMay]

Just a small update
Horse is back home and getting 24/7 turnout on good grass and hard feed twice a day so should start to do much better

Sorry the loan home didn’t buck their ideas up

 

[MiJodsR2BlinkinTite]

Personally if there is any suspicion of any "welfare" issue I'd say stuff the contract and go and get the horse back. ASAP. No messing. Just do it. At the end of the day a paper contract such as this isn't enforceable in law so let them scream about it if they want to, just get your horse back NOW before they move it somewhere else (which does happen sadly).

Had to do this with my old lad who had sweet itch and they'd turned him out without his rug. He'd rubbed himself raw, and then the YO started getting assy in my face that he'd come in that state originally, however backed down when I whipped out my phone and said OK here's my vet on speed-dial I'll let you talk to him. I'd given them one more chance after that (stupidly I know - and only because we didn't have immediate room for him at home at that time) but he was still in a state.

There was a show on that weekend; my friend had taken her horsebox and there was a spare space on the lorry. Everyone else was doing stuff and no-one was watching, so we bundled him up the ramp before you could say sixpence and off we went home. Left the stable clean & tidy and a note on the saddle rack to say he'd gone home. We literally had to build another stable for him from bits & pieces around the farm but at least we could look after him properly.

Never heard another thing: other than the YO bellyaching that his client hadn't paid anything for his keep for the five weeks he'd been there - and expected me to pay it. Told him to trot on.

Edited: just seen the owner has got their horse back. Good!

 

[TheChestnutThing]

Most agreements are not.
Whilst 2 parties sign it agreed it can mean very little.
Most agreements of any sort need to be signed off by a legal professional.

It was always designed as a template not a legal document
I do belive the original one on the BHS website was put together by forum member Janetgeorge.

Sadly I was this person and am reaping the loss...it was obviously a bit more complicated than this but contracts are not worth the ground the stand on apparantly, including if signed by a legal professional (I know someone else who just found this out the hard way).

 

[JBM]

Sorry the loan home didn’t buck their ideas up

He was slightly better but I honestly think it was just due to him not being worked rather than being fed more unfortunately.
He had a good hooley around the field when he got home so seems in good spirits already in the company of some ladies

 

[PinkvSantaboots]

I think you made the right choice it's one thing I just won't give second chances for its just unacceptable and so cruel to not feed any animal.

I'm glad you have him home hopefully he will look better in no time.

 

[dottylottie]

glad you’ve got your boy back home!

 

[JBM]

Don’t want to make the thread too noticeable by showing him all off so cropped to show improvement
He’s looking much better since home. Glad to have got him back safe with no trouble

 

[Barton Bounty]

Hes looking soooo much better