Loan home trouble - LONG

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WelshRareBit

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Good news is, I have got a new job!! Complete suprise for my sitution to be turned around so quickly
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But this has thrown up a new set of problems:

I'll try to be as honest as I can, because there are some parts of this which are quite upsetting for me, but in order to understand whats going on I had better be thorough with my explanation...

I advertised Murphy firstly for loan (as you all know) then as my situation at work got worse I thought, crap Id better sell him and be done with it. Anyway nice people came along wanting to view with loan to buy sometime in the future. Perfect for me, gave me time to look for work etc and they had time to see if they liked him, and if worse case scenario I did have to sell him - the hard work would've been done! (ie he'd be gone already no need for tears and regrets etc)

So they take him home, along with my contract stating at the end of the month, the loan agreement would be re-assessed and one of three things would happen:
1) I offer him for loan for a longer term
2) I take him back
3) I offer him for sale to them.

Also in the loan agreement was the fact thay they were liable for vetinary and shoeing costs and arrangement.

Now I decided to ring them early and let them know Id be having him back end of the month - to give them the heads up, time to look for a new horse etc etc. I left the ball in their court. They were dissapointed (which I knew would happen, and that upset me because I dont want to hurt people's feelings etc)

Anyway I get a phonecall then saying that theyd be bringing him back on the weekend and had his feet and teeth done and I should give them the money back for that (100+)...

Legally, I am almost sure that I dont have to pay them anything. Morally I WOULD (to save bad feeling more than anything else) BUT havent got the cash at the mo. So I offered to pay them in a few weeks. To which they didnt seem impressed.

I am worried now about Murphy, at the end of the day they have my horse, which is like having me by the proverbial b*lls. But there is literally no way of them having that cash til a few weeks time anyway.

My boyfriend and I are in bits with worry, after all I dont know they could be nasty to Murphy or anything. I have left them cool down today hoping that they will see that I wasnt out there to fleece them or anything - god I would not have cared one bit if they hadnt have done those things - I just want my horse back.

Theyd be welcome to keep him to the end of the month - get their moneys worth out of his shoes etc...but it seems they dont want that.

I'm worried about my boy.
I am going to try and find someone in my yard who will take ME to get HIM, if I feel his welfare might be an issue.

What do you guys think - I value the input of you guys!
 
Were his feet due for shoes or a trim? That is normal maintenence if you have a horse and not down to you. I am surprised they had anything done with his teeth at this early stage. If they can show it was essential (ie vet report) and prove their costs then in your shoes I would pay it asap, even if I had to borrow to do so..but if there was no good reason or necessity (or maybe it didn't even happen and they are trying to make you feel guilty) then obviously don't..that was their choice in a short term loan agreement and a bit silly.

Sounds a bit like they assumed he would be there long term, so I do feel for them in these circumstances.
 
No. 1 I can't believe that his welfare would be at stake - if you liked the people enough to put him on loan with them, presumably they seemed like descent people.

No.2 Yes, I think morally you should pay them the money, and it absolutely should be on reciept of the horse.

There's no need to for this to decsend in to bitterness. Obviously they are disapointed and have just forked out rather a large sum of money on the horse. I too would expect it back immediately.

I would just go to the bank and organise an overdraft facillity so that you can give them the cash. And it all is resolved with no hard feelings.
 
I don't think anything horrible will happen, and I can understand why they would want the money back that they have spent on him if they have only had him for a month. I can also understand how they may feel that they deliver the horse back and you don't give them the £100 then they feel they may never see the money again. Of course they would want to send the horse back asap as they are legally responsible for veterinary costs etc, and we all know how easy it is for a horse to damage itself, even in the safest environment.

They are obviously upset as they thought that they would either be buying him if they got on with him, and are a little peeved that they have put in time and effort, only to be told that you have decided to have him back. It is unreasonable to expect people to pay for teeth etc at £100 if they have only had him for a month (or in this case a few weeks).

I think the best thing you can do is, if you intend to pay them the £100, is to borrow the money, or give them some post dated cheques, so that they feel they are not being ripped off.

From what you say it appears that he would only come back to you if they didn't want him - and in this instance (happily for you!) you have asked for him back as your circumstances have changed. This has moved the ball park a little, and I am sure you can understand that they are now feeling a bit upset about the whole thing.

Give them a call today and try to take the emotion out of the issue. Offer to collect him simply because that is the right thing to do. Why should they spend any more money out on returning the horse that it sounds like they want to keep!

best of luck with this - I am sure that you will get lots of other views (as always).

Very pleased that you are now able to keep him though.
 
in truth...

If I was them I would be pretty hacked off as most people would assume you would only have him back after a month if you were unhappy with what they were doing/horse was unhappy.

In essence its great you can have him back but did you say to them, if my circumstances change i may want him back after a month?

They have obviously gone to time and effort and were assuming that if all went well they had him on longer loan, so although contractually obviously you can take him back, yes they are probably mightily pissed off as I would be!

Solution, pay money somehow on return of neddy, there is no way they should be asked to wait, no matter what your circumstances.

Explain situation and be honest with them and apologise, there is nothing more you can do really.

If you dont have the money to pay them for what they have had done, then it may be worth considering whether you can truly afford to have a horse? (not meaning to sound nasty but what if you needed urgent veterinary treatment and couldnt get it on account?).....just playing devils advocate here...

Glad you get to have neddy tho!! Sure these people will get over it.
 
Of course I agree totally with the fact that they are dissapointed, I feel terrible for it BUT knowing that they were taking the horse on loan from someone who was being made redundant - did they not think I would be applying for jobs - and if I got a job I would want him back?

I wasnt putting him on loan because I didnt want him/like him/had outgrown him - he was simply on loan due to finances - and I made this clear to them when they took him.

I think whats got my back up is the fact that I couldnt care less if they hadnt had his shoes and teeth done, its not the money Im in it for - it was Murphy's welfare - having someone to look after him etc.

At the end of the day I am happy to give them the money back but there is no way of them having it now. Absolutely no way. Ive got a cats chance in hell of getting an overdraft, and as some of you know I live alone - my only family lives in Milan - so I have no-one to lend it to me. I thought you werent allowed to post date cheques? (maybe Im wrong here)
 
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If you dont have the money to pay them for what they have had done, then it may be worth considering whether you can truly afford to have a horse?

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I have to say that the same thing crossed my mind tbh. £100 is not a lot of money in the big scheme of things when it comes to horses. If you can't lay your hands on it - can you afford him?

I suppose that's a whole other debate..........
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I think it was silly of them to pay for the teeth anyway, as there was the possiblity of him having to be returned, and if he needed shoeing in that time and it was agreed beforehand that during the loan period they would pay these bills then you shouldn't have to pay.

However to put my mind at rest if I was in your situation I would pay for the shoes (when you get your horse back) and any transport costs.

Try (as hard as it is!) not to worry about the welfare of your horse, any decent horseperson would never harm an animal just because of a situation like this.
 
As for vets bills etc - I have that one covered - I have an account. winks.
And Marsden thats why he went on loan - because I coudnt afford him. Obviously now - my fortunes have changed quite drastically - Ive got a new job which is double my old salary.
 
Of course I can afford him - Ive just got a new job - but bloody hell give me a chance to get my first pay cheque please!!! lol

Thats all that is in question - I have stated Im happy enough to pay them BUT they understood the contract that they took him on during and therefore I am not culpable for the costs - and this being the case given I am happy to pay them - I do not deserve to be called up at 11pm at night and ranted at!
 
It may perhaps have been better then to wait until you had been paid then before getting him back????

At the risk of making myself unpopular - you need to handle this situation with diplomacy and tact. This is not about you, but the people to whom you loaned the horse to. You have no reason to feel aggrieved in any shape or form. They very understandably do. I think that you have a very immature attitude to this situation. And you need to be careful. The horse world is a very, very small world. You may find yourself in this situation again one day - but find yourself unable to loan the horse due to your previous attitude.

There is no reason why this situation can not be resolved ammicably providing you act with maturity and in a reasonable fashion.
 
Well TBH I am VERY suprised that they have had dental work done already. You state that there is a contract in existance that actually states that the initial period is 1 month for all parties, I think, in that case, if they have chosen to have his teeth done then really that is their problem - HOWEVER, I would pay once I had seen the dental work invoice as a polite gesture. He obviously needed shoeing, so that should be paid too. I also think it deffo should be YOU collecting the horse as you want him back!

Take the £100 out of the account you have for veterinary fees.
 
They have been offered to keep him until the end of the month, they dont want to which is fair enough.

I let them know early on that the situation had changed, mostly to be fair to them - would it have been fair for me to a) walk in there end of the months contract and say actually Im taking him home
OR
b) re do the loan agreement until I got paid and then walk in and take him home?

I think I did the fairest thing possible in letting them know asap my plans to have him home- after all they could have spent even more money on him in that time... i have left it in their court as to when they bring him back, they were/are welcome to use him and his shoes til the end of the monthif they please.

I am more than reasonable- you are chosing to ignore the fact that Im saying I am happy to pay them the money - but I literally cannot at the present time.

What would you suggest I do AmyMay? If I could conjeur myself up some hard cash believe me I would hav done by now!

And dont worry you wont make yourself unpopular - as I am happy enough to hear your opinion - good or bad - otherwise why would I have posted on a forum? xx
 
Hi Weezy

Sorry I wasnt clear enough I mean I have an account with the vets which means any work they do is invoiced to me and I pay within a month. Therefore meaning if emergency vet bills were needed I could have it done and pay when I got paid if you get me.
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[ QUOTE ]

I am worried now about Murphy, at the end of the day they have my horse, which is like having me by the proverbial b*lls. But there is literally no way of them having that cash til a few weeks time anyway.

My boyfriend and I are in bits with worry, after all I dont know they could be nasty to Murphy or anything. I have left them cool down today hoping that they will see that I wasnt out there to fleece them or anything - god I would not have cared one bit if they hadnt have done those things - I just want my horse back.

Theyd be welcome to keep him to the end of the month - get their moneys worth out of his shoes etc...but it seems they dont want that.

I'm worried about my boy.
I am going to try and find someone in my yard who will take ME to get HIM, if I feel his welfare might be an issue.

[/ QUOTE ]

In their situation I'd want to send the horse straight back too and I would be miffed that you didn't have the money for me- I would NO WAY want to spend another few weeks getting attached, putting work and money in???

Why on earth would you be in bits worrying that they are going to mistreat him? Have they said/done anything (other rather being not too impressed about the situation) that would give you genuine cause for concern? Surely you would not have loaned him to these people if you thought there was ANY risk of them not looking after him properly?
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I think you need to perhaps sit back and look at the bigger picture here, I'm actually feeling really sorry for these people!

All that aside- fantastic news about the job, and even better news that you can keep him!
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It was a little odd the phonecall, late at night saying that they werent happy at all etc I think thats what worried me - realistically Im sure I know deep down he'll be fine - its just a mum's over-reacting really.
 
QR - how about explaining to your new employers and asking for a small advance on your salary - if you and your boyfriend really can't raise £100. Do ask to see their invoice for the dental work though.

As an employer if you'd come to me and explained the situation and how it had arisen I'd have advanced the money, provided that you had accrued sufficient hours work to cover it if you did a bunk!

Glad you have a new job and can have him back.
 
Without saying too much, the people involved have a buying and selling yard. He was supplied with all his food/tack/rugs etc. So no more money need be spent if he stayed, but your right Lzt they might get attatched.

So here's the crux - what on earth do I do now? They want to bring him back asap, but I cant have the money asap. Do you think I could say, leave my saddle with them until i pay - as a gesture that Im trustworthy? Sounds stupid but might help them not to worry. . . .
 
You should have thought long and hard about this one beofre you decided to loan him IMHO i would be pretty p***d off right now! I cannot understand why they would have had his teeth done this early id offer to pay for the shoes and transport cost! Im sure the bank will give you an overdraft they give anyone one! sorry to be so harsh!
 
Obviously I did! I didnt put my pride and joy on loan to a home over 80 miles away on a whim... I had no possible way of knowing I would get such a good job so soon - how could anyone know that? If you had read my previous post regarding loaning/selling him you would know without a shadow of a doubt that Murphy was put out on loan for his own good, not my good, no the loanees good - but HIS good. Which is all an owner can do - the best by her horse. Unfortunately that has come back to bite me in the arse - but how could I knowingly keep Murphy given that Id been made redundant and couldnt for a time, even put petrol in my car? Please forgive my rudeness but loaning Murphy was something that I had to fight with myself over for weeks and was not a decision lightly made.

And no the bank doesnt give just anyone overdrafts! Wish that were so....
 
Sorry WR - I still think that the original agreement appeared to be that the only way he would return to you is that if he was not suitable for them. Otherwise why would you have put him up for sale? I think this is why they are really not too pleased - they presumably would have been fine about paying for his teeth and shoes etc if they had been able to decide themselves whether to keep him or not. However, in this instance, the pony been gone a few weeks and you now want him back.

If the tooth man were coming, then that is probably why they had his teeth done assuming they have other horses from what you say. And we always have the teeth checked on a new horse - I am surprised that you all seem so surprised about this!

Post dated cheques are not "illegal" - and I think that should be the route you go down.

When you put him on loan with a view to purchase after 1 month, did you at any point say that you might decide you could afford him after all and may want him back at the end of the month?
 
Breeze see my last few posts within this thread..

Sparklet - his teeth were not due to my knowledge as they were done about 5 months ago, she let me know she was having his teeth done and I said that was fine if they needed doing and his feet were done 6 weeks ago, so due but not imminently. He only wears front shoes and she decided to have him shod all round.
 
I can see why these people are a bit peeved, they've essentially been used as a free babysitting service and haven't got a thing out of it in return. So yes, morally I would be giving them the £100 pronto and collecting the horse myself, probably with a box of chocs and a bottle of wine and a big apology.
That said, the horse is yours and you are entitled to have him back if you so wish, unfortunately that is the downside of being a loanee.
I just can't believe that in this day and age someone that keeps horses can't readily lay their hands on £100 in an emergency.
Unless you are in a massive financial debt (in which case why on earth take the horse back?) any bank would give you a temporary £100 overdraft. Alternatively as you are inbetween jobs surely there are local cash in hand jobs going even if it is cleaning/mucking out etc.
 
Hmm, tricky one. I know when I took my boy on loan I would have been absolutely heartbroken if she then took him back after just acouple of weeks, but I can also see your point about your financial situation. I think post dated cheques are the way forward, presumably you get paid end of next week anyway? Or is it not til the end of May?
 
"Otherwise why would you have put him up for sale?"

If I hadn't got a job by that point I would have had to sell him.

"When you put him on loan with a view to purchase after 1 month, did you at any point say that you might decide you could afford him after all and may want him back at the end of the month? "

Yes on numerous occassions, also they did not have the ready cash to buy him at the end of the month - thats why there were 3 clauses in the contract:
1- I would sell
2 - I would make the loan agreement longer
3- I would take him back.

Obviously by putting that clause into the contract it would be obvious (even if i hadnt said so) that there may be the chance Id have him back at the end of the month

Another clause in the contract states that i can take him back at any time if I feel it neccessary.
 
So his teeth 'to your knowledge' would be due in a few weeks and this feet were due to be done and you will get the benefit of both the teeth and the shoes because they are not keeping him.

Personally I would give them a ring and explain that you will pick up the costs of the teeth and shoes. Explain that you will not get paid until the end of the month but you will immediately send them the money when your salary is paid and ask them if they want security if you pick up the horse i.e. leave some tack.

Presumably they paid for the transport cost to their place - are you paying for him to be collected?
 
B+J - I cant tell you why my bank wont let me have an overdraft - they just wont. Im not in any debt at all. Ive tried on numerous occassions for them to and they always refuse me. If I could have an overdraft I would never have had to put the horse out on loan anyway! As for the 100 thing - again - vetinary matters are taken care of by account, there is nothing else I cannot cater for just I dont have cash available.
I wont get any pay from anywhere until 2/3 weeks time.

Sighs, its just happened in the most unfortunate way, obviously its a happy time for me - but unhappy now because I cannot see the way to work this out for both parties.
 
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