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mknight994

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Hi all,

My first time posting on here but I’m just looking to see what people think.

I took on a horse for full loan in June 2024. A contract (we used the BHS Loan agreement template) was put in place and signed by both myself and the owner (+ witnesses) the day I went to collect him.

Unfortunately a few days ago whilst I was hacking him out, a freak accident occurred which meant the horse unfortunately passed away. Unsure wether it was a heart attack or wether he hit his head when he reared and fell backwards. No cars were involved.

When I went to view him, the owners said he can get nervous on his own. It was then agreed by both me and the owner that I could work on this as I am confident hacking out alone and my yard is in a quiet area. Nothing more got said on the situation.

Since the unfortunate accident of the horse passing, the owners are now saying I shouldn’t have been hacking him alone and that they specifically told me not to. As explained above, that was not the case. Surely if they specifically didn’t want the horse hacked out alone, they should’ve put that in our signed contract. Under one of the clauses in said contract, it says the horse will be used for hacking (and many other ‘all rounder’ disciplines). There is even a specific place that gave the owner the chance to have added that in.
Owners have also seen my Facebook posts about him hacking alone and have liked it and even commented. I also texted them videos and messages of his hacking saying how brilliant he was being. They replied very happy and not once have said to me to stop or that they didn’t want him hacked alone. If they did, of course I would’ve stopped there and then.

Another thing the owner is blaming me for is his insurance. In the insurance section of our contract, there is nothing about having to insure the horse for ‘Death or Loss of use’. Only Vet fees, saddlery, tack, transport, third party liability. Which of course, he was fully insured for. I have done a lot of research online and from what I have read it should’ve been the owners responsibility to insure him for ‘Death and loss of use’ as he is their horse.
Owners are now trying to claim £5000 from me (as that’s what they think he was worth…. which in my opinion is far from correct) There is nothing in the contract stating what the horse is worth.

Owners now seeking legal help, and so am I.
I just wanted to post on here to see what other peoples opinions were on the situation.
This was a major freak accident that was extremely traumatic for me to experience and witness. Not once have the owners asked how I am! I understand they must be upset and I guess angry that this has happened but I just don’t believe they’ve got a leg to stand on because of what’s in the contract we both signed.

Thank you!
 

JBM

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If it’s going to court the horse should be examined for cause of death if not already done

Sorry for this tricky situation. If they used the BHS template there is a section on death

INJURY/ILLNESS/DEATH OF HORSE
5.1In the event that the Horse sustains an injury or develops an illness that will prevent it from fulfilling the purpose set out in clause 3.3 for a period exceeding 21 days the Borrower may terminate the agreement and return the horse.
5.2In the event of the Horse’s death the Owner will be responsible for any euthanasia and disposal expenses.
 

meleeka

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Only a solicitor is going to tell you that for sure. I'd wait and see what they are going to do and try not to worry in the meantime. They can't claim that it was your negligence that caused his death if they don't know what he died of. Presumably they haven't requested a post mortem to determine that? I don't think it's down to you to prove you weren't negligible tbh. I'd probably take screenshots of any evidence such as 'liked' posts now, in case they disappear.
 

ihatework

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I’m sorry this has happened to you.
The owners sound like they are in shock, trying to process and find the nearest/easiest person to blame , which at this point in time you are taking the brunt of. Please try not to take it too personally (sometimes difficult said!).

If your account is accurate then although I’m not legally qualified I think you have a strong case. I’d seek legal advice pronto, and probably avoid discussing further on the internet.
 

Nonjumper

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Screenshot all social media posts where youve hacked alone and the owner has commented/liked. It doesn’t sound like they have a leg to stand on with regards to the hacking.
This.

This is the evidence you have that they not only knew but were content for you to hack him alone. Get all such correspondence saved away quickly before it can be removed.

But Fuzzy Furry has a point, This is an open forum, and can be found via a Google search. Now you've had some responses I'd remove ASAP, especially as it looks like it'll be escalated legally.
 

Pearlsacarolsinger

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Legally it will all come down to what is in the contract, I imagine. But certainly you should keep all and any evidence that the owner approved of your hacking the horse.
Get some legal advice of your own asap.
 

Birker2020

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My gosh I read your post OP and thought how eloquently you put it together and how nice and understanding you appear to be with the owners, given that the owners have not reciprocated in the slightest.

I can understand they are upset about the death of their horse, but so are you. You were there and it would have affected you greatly, do not let them try and minimise that for you.

And sadly, as we all know horses are incredibly unpredictable and some almost seem to go out of their way to court disaster in some way or other. There is always the possibility that an accident can occur with any horse, and the owner should understand. I lost one with a heart attack or brain aneurysm, not sure, never had a PM done at the time, got paid out in full - assume vet could see it was a genuine case and I loved him greatly - he was an amazing horse, very sadly missed). So I know how distressing sudden unexpected loss is.

Get legal advice, there are so cracking equine solicitors about. And screen shot everything like others have said. And get Fat Controller to delete your thread. I understand you need help with this but it just gives the 'other side' opportunity to see what you are thinking or being advised to do. Best Wishes, and so dreadfully sorry for your loss.
 

mknight994

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If it’s going to court the horse should be examined for cause of death if not already done

Sorry for this tricky situation. If they used the BHS template there is a section on death

INJURY/ILLNESS/DEATH OF HORSE
5.1In the event that the Horse sustains an injury or develops an illness that will prevent it from fulfilling the purpose set out in clause 3.3 for a period exceeding 21 days the Borrower may terminate the agreement and return the horse.
5.2In the event of the Horse’s death the Owner will be responsible for any euthanasia and disposal expense
My gosh I read your post OP and thought how eloquently you put it together and how nice and understanding you appear to be with the owners, given that the owners have not reciprocated in the slightest.

I can understand they are upset about the death of their horse, but so are you. You were there and it would have affected you greatly, do not let them try and minimise that for you.

And sadly, as we all know horses are incredibly unpredictable and some almost seem to go out of their way to court disaster in some way or other. There is always the possibility that an accident can occur with any horse, and the owner should understand. I lost one with a heart attack or brain aneurysm, not sure, never had a PM done at the time, got paid out in full - assume vet could see it was a genuine case and I loved him greatly - he was an amazing horse, very sadly missed). So I know how distressing sudden unexpected loss is.

Get legal advice, there are so cracking equine solicitors about. And screen shot everything like others have said. And get Fat Controller to delete your thread. I understand you need help with this but it just gives the 'other side' opportunity to see what you are thinking or being advised to do. Best Wishes, and so dreadfully sorry for your loss.
thank you for the reply. How do I delete this thread?
 

poiuytrewq

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In the mean time is it possible to edit and delete when you have written even if the thread remains for now?
I’m not sure if there may be a time limit for that.
I’m so sorry you’re going through this. Loaning can be a minefield for sure
 
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Bearsmum

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Just wanted to say how sorry I am that you are going through this, I don't think they have a leg to stand on. but to give them some understanding perhaps grief and shock have taken over, they may re think in time and realise they are wrong, hope you can get some legal advice on how to proceed. Look after yourself in the meantime.
 

Melody Grey

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What an awful event, I hope you’re ok? I’m certainly no expert, but with the legal dealings I have experienced, I think the precedent is for the accuser to prove your negligence rather than for you to prove your non- negligence in the first instance.

From what you’ve written, I can’t see they can prove your negligence in any way. I’d screenshot and document everything as a precaution. There’s a possibility that you’ll hear nothing more- they may be advised there’s no case to put forward when they seek advice.
 

PeterNatt

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If you need to use a solicitor make sure that you use a specialist Equine Solicitor - list below:

Actons
Tel: 0115 91002200 Caroline Bowler

Hannah Salter (Sale and Purchase disputes, Loans, Livery and Facility Hire Agreements)
Waddington Turner Wall Solicitors
Michael Bower Equine Law

Mark Carter
White Bowker Solicitors
Tel: 01962 844440
www.wandb.co.uk
mark.carter@wandb.co.uk

Helen Niebuhr
Darbys Solicitors
52 New Inn Hall Street
Oxford
OX1 2QD
Tel: 01865 811 7000
01865 811712
www.equine-law.net
E: equine@darbys.co.uk

Jaqcui Fulton Equine Law
Tel: 0121 308 5915
jf@equinelawuk.co.uk
www.equinelawuk.co.uk

Hannah Campbell (Specialise in compensation cases)
Tel: 01446 794196 (Specialises in traffic accidents involving horses)
www.horsesolicitor.co.uk
info@horse solicitor

Hanna Campbell
Horse Solicitors
(Took on case in 2013 on behalf of Claire Berry-Jones) involving making a claim Motor Insurers Bureau (MIB)

Alexandra Agnew
Mischcon de Reya
Africa House
70 Kingsway
London
WC2B 6AH
Tel: 020 3321 7000

Jacqui Dark (Nee Fulton)
Equine Law Firm
The office
Home Farm Cottage
Kiddington
Oxfordshire
OX20 1BY
Tel: 0121 308 3132
E: jd@equinelawuk.co.uk

Rebecca Stojak
Geldards
Tel: 01332 378 378
Tel: 07702 873 743
E: Rebecca.stojak@geldards.com

Deborah Hargreaves
Edmondson Hall Solicitors and Sports Lawyers
25 Exeter Road
Newmarket
Suffolk
CB8 8AR
Tel: 01638 560556
Tel: 01638 564483
E: solicitors@edmondsonhall.com
E: ah@edmondsonhall.com
www.edmondsonhall.com/page/1r6ef/Home/partner.html
Wrote an article on The Legal pitfalls of Buying and Selling Horses

Elizabeth Simpson Senior Solicitor at law firm Andrew M Jackson
Tel: 01482 325242
www.andrewjackson.co.uk
enquiries@andrewjackson.co.uk

David Forbes or Belinda Walkinshaw
Pickworths Solicitors
6 Victoria Street
St Albans
Hertfordshire
AL1 3JB
01727 844511

Mark de-villamar Roberts
Langleys Solicitors Equine Law Group
Tel: 01904 683051
E: mark.Roberts@langleys.com
www.equinelawyers.co.uk

Elizabeth Simpson
Senior Solicitor
Andrew Jackson
Yorkshire
Tel: 01482 325242
www.andrewjackson.co.uk

Richmond Solicitors
13-15 High Street
Keynsham
Bristol
BS31 1DP
Tel: 0117 986 9555
Fax: 0117 986 8680
enquiries@richmonssolicitorsco.uk

Jacqui Fulton
Giselle Robinson Solicitors
Inderjit Gill
Jacksons Specialist Equine Solicitor
(Represented Gaynor Goodall in an accident on a bridleway on Tameside County Court 01 February 2010).

Knights Solicitors
Tunbridge Wells
Tel: 01892 537311
www.knights-solicitors.co.uk
Work with GRC Commercial Bailiffs
Senior partner very good on equine matters

Horse Solicitor
Tel: 01446 794 196
info@horsesolicitor.co.uk
www.horsesolicitor.com
www.laytons.com

Cathryn Godfrey
Irwin Mitchell
Specialises in Horse Riders injured on the roads

Hannah Bradley (Equine and Bloodstock disputes)
Setfords
74 North Street
Guildford
Surrey
GU1 4AW
Tel: 020 3829 5557
E: info@setfords.co.uk

Mary Ann Reay Charles or Chris Shaw
Shaw and Co Solicitors
Equine Law Specialists
Tel: 0800 019 1248
info@shawandco.com
www.shawandco.com

Good luck!
 

JenJ

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I've reported it as well OP so hopefully admin will get a flurry of notifications to remove it.

As the post above is so useful, perhaps this/the rest of the thread could be retained, with just the OPs post(s) being deleted?
 

BronsonNutter

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First off, I hope you are okay. How very traumatic for all of you involved. Hopefully they are just projecting their grief at the moment and may be a bit nicer in a week or so when they have got their heads round it.

Secondly, check with your insurers that the loss/death of the horse is definitely not covered - I found it was quite hard to insure a horse for just third party, or for vets fees etc without death (as in death-death, not choosing to euthanase the horse) being included in the policy. Although with yours being on loan it may be slightly different I guess. Was a post mortem performed or a vet called to certify it?
 

Flyermc

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You do need a solicitor if you cant come to an agreement with the owner.

The owner would have to demonstrate that negligence lead to or contributed to the horses death. Accidents are rarely simple single events and normally have several contributing factors. Providing more information on this tread is not advisable, however from the short post on here, there is a significant number areas that the owner may feel contributed to the accident.

Not having the horse insured for death, does not mean that the owner isnt entitled to seek to recover losses, it just means that you, as the loaner have left yourself open to potentially having to cover all or part of those costs (if applicable)

Having everything written down in a contract is ideal, but not always practical. Doing or not doing an act that is not specifically mentioned in a contact, means that a contract violation has not occurred, but it does not mean that a person is not liable if there act or omission is reasonably practical.
 

brighteyes

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Hi all,

My first time posting on here but I’m just looking to see what people think.

I took on a horse for full loan in June 2024. A contract (we used the BHS Loan agreement template) was put in place and signed by both myself and the owner (+ witnesses) the day I went to collect him.

Unfortunately a few days ago whilst I was hacking him out, a freak accident occurred which meant the horse unfortunately passed away. Unsure wether it was a heart attack or wether he hit his head when he reared and fell backwards. No cars were involved.

When I went to view him, the owners said he can get nervous on his own. It was then agreed by both me and the owner that I could work on this as I am confident hacking out alone and my yard is in a quiet area. Nothing more got said on the situation.

Since the unfortunate accident of the horse passing, the owners are now saying I shouldn’t have been hacking him alone and that they specifically told me not to. As explained above, that was not the case. Surely if they specifically didn’t want the horse hacked out alone, they should’ve put that in our signed contract. Under one of the clauses in said contract, it says the horse will be used for hacking (and many other ‘all rounder’ disciplines). There is even a specific place that gave the owner the chance to have added that in.
Owners have also seen my Facebook posts about him hacking alone and have liked it and even commented. I also texted them videos and messages of his hacking saying how brilliant he was being. They replied very happy and not once have said to me to stop or that they didn’t want him hacked alone. If they did, of course I would’ve stopped there and then.

Another thing the owner is blaming me for is his insurance. In the insurance section of our contract, there is nothing about having to insure the horse for ‘Death or Loss of use’. Only Vet fees, saddlery, tack, transport, third party liability. Which of course, he was fully insured for. I have done a lot of research online and from what I have read it should’ve been the owners responsibility to insure him for ‘Death and loss of use’ as he is their horse.
Owners are now trying to claim £5000 from me (as that’s what they think he was worth…. which in my opinion is far from correct) There is nothing in the contract stating what the horse is worth.

Owners now seeking legal help, and so am I.
I just wanted to post on here to see what other peoples opinions were on the situation.
This was a major freak accident that was extremely traumatic for me to experience and witness. Not once have the owners asked how I am! I understand they must be upset and I guess angry that this has happened but I just don’t believe they’ve got a leg to stand on because of what’s in the contract we both signed.

Thank you!
Very late to the table here, but it’s common for horses suffering a major cardiac or other type of fatal internal ‘trauma’ to rear before collapse. I’ve actually seen this happen. I am so sorry for all concerned.
 

PinkvSantaboots

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Very late to the table here, but it’s common for horses suffering a major cardiac or other type of fatal internal ‘trauma’ to rear before collapse. I’ve actually seen this happen. I am so sorry for all concerned.
Yes it definitely does happen I was on a yard where a horse just collapsed whilst out hacking and apparently she reared beforehand.
 
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