Loan Pony Breach of Contact

I seem to be in the minority here, in that I can totally see the OP's point of view! Why shouldn't the contract be stuck to afterall? If the owners of the pony wanted to be able to take it away for a week, or ride it every day, then don't loan it out. Why should the OP pay for the use of the pony and look after it, and then just be shoved aside whenever she gets in the way?

I'd look for better people to loan from.
 
Oh dear. That is a lot. I can understand your point a little better now. However I still think you'd be better to go an RS after getting your money refunded.
 
xspiralx said:
Bit unfair!

Firstly, it is irrelevant what her son is doing with the pony - who is to say his wander around gives him less enjoyment than the other child going to PC camp? And why should her son be 'denied' his rides for the week any more than the other child?

Secondly, she would not be denying the other child anything - the owners of the pony chose to put it on part loan, and take money to compensate for that.

Why should the sharer be made to feel bad for wanting the use of the pony as per the agreement that she has paid for? If the owners wanted the full control of the pony on any given day, then they ought not to have entered into a share agreement - or at least made it clear up front that the pony would sometimes be wanted for PC activities.
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Not really pony club camp happens once a year and I doubt the child had any thing to do with getting a sharer for the pony it will have been the parents choice. I dont doubt that the OP's child gets equal enjoyment from the pony but he isnt limited to one week and could make other arrangments to make up his riding time another day pc camp is once a year. OP could even take her son to watch so they still get some horsey time that week.

The other children taking the pony away from OP and her son after they had tacked up and were ready to ride is unacceptable but wanting to take the pony to camp isnt (which is what OP was moaning about first).

If you want to keep the pony then you need to have a chat about having priority on the days you have the pony and the owners being able to ride arround you. If not then either buy your own and keep it on working livery, find an out grown pony thats not being used so you can use it when ever you want or go find the local rda and get him involved that way. Sending a legal letter in this situation would get you a reputation and you will struggle to find another pony as news travels fast, your best bet is to have a chat with them about it and see what they have to say. Sharers are not cash cows as you like to put it but they would be expected to have some flexibility.

ETA just seen your paying £75 a week! :eek: sharers are more like £20-25 a week! You could have your own pony on livery for that. Get your money back and get out of there for that much money you could get a few private lessons a week at a rs for your son.
 
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That seems very expensive, you are covering all their costs I would think, they are being unfair by messing you around especially as they are actually gaining so much from you.
I would probably end the agreement unless they decide to honour your contract.
 
Nfp20 said:
works out as £75 per week (£25 per day) so we pay approx £325 per month £975 for 3 months give or take a week or two.

So its not cheap but its not expensive either given other loans that I saw available. We also brought hay, feed, replacement buckets, winter rugs, reflocked their saddle but also brought our own fitted tack etc that were not part of the agreement but which I felt was a fair additional contribution. We don't use their grooming kit I raided my old one and replaced a few of my brushes and kit plus a starter grooming kit for my son.

Obviously riding and safety equipment and insurance is our own responsibility.
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I'm afraid they have seen you coming! Wish I had a sharer willing pay that much. OP, as I have said before the only way to get what you want is to get your own pony. I'm afraid you got my back up with your first few threads, they were rather confrontational. You have explained things better and I apologise if I came over as being harsh, there has to be compromise in situations like these, as it took several posts to explain how the owners were behaving I an now see that, yes, at times they are being unreasonable, questioning legalities is not the way to go. Write a letter, recorded delivery asking for the return of your money subject to breach of contract and walk away, something else will turn up and will cost nowhere near as much.
 
Nfp20 said:
works out as £75 per week (£25 per day) so we pay approx £325 per month £975 for 3 months give or take a week or two.

So its not cheap but its not expensive either given other loans that I saw available. We also brought hay, feed, replacement buckets, winter rugs, reflocked their saddle but also brought our own fitted tack etc that were not part of the agreement but which I felt was a fair additional contribution. We don't use their grooming kit I raided my old one and replaced a few of my brushes and kit plus a starter grooming kit for my son.

Obviously riding and safety equipment and insurance is our own responsibility.
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I don't know how to do shocked smilies, but £325 a month? We would be happy for someone to ride our little lad for nowt, to keep him ticking over.

I am actually lost for words!
 
Nfp20 said:
works out as £75 per week (£25 per day) so we pay approx £325 per month £975 for 3 months give or take a week or two.

So its not cheap but its not expensive either given other loans that I saw available. We also brought hay, feed, replacement buckets, winter rugs, reflocked their saddle but also brought our own fitted tack etc that were not part of the agreement but which I felt was a fair additional contribution. We don't use their grooming kit I raided my old one and replaced a few of my brushes and kit plus a starter grooming kit for my son.

Obviously riding and safety equipment and insurance is our own responsibility.
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That's an outrageous amount of money! Seriously! If I were to part share a horse, which is what you are doing, I would expect to pay part of the running costs of the animal.
As an example - I have a horse on DIY livery. I pay £130 per month for a stable/grazing and bedding. I buy hay at £1 per (6kg) net, and feed my horse twice a day - about £50 per month. He has front shoes on only (£45 every 6--8 weeks), insurance is £22 per month.
This is a 17hh horse - not a little pony, and I reckon my costs will be, on average £300 per month.

They are taking the piss!
 
£75 a week? Wow, get your own pony and get a sharer in for a few days. That way you can have your days like you want them and still have help through another sharer.

I was thinking of getting a sharer in as my two kids don't do enough with the pony and she is just getting fat on the paddock the days she isn't in work BUT after reading this thread, I am not so sure :(. Seems like lots of trouble.

When I was younger all my share pony owners where very nice people and we always got along. It was always a give and take and it always worked out somehow.

Good Luck BUT like others already said I would be careful with legal actions. The local horsey world is always very small and you might have a problem to find another pony to loan and/or if you buy a pony you might even have a problem to find a sharer then too.

All the best
 
dafthoss said:
Not really pony club camp happens once a year and I doubt the child had any thing to do with getting a sharer for the pony it will have been the parents choice. I dont doubt that the OP's child gets equal enjoyment from the pony but he isnt limited to one week and could make other arrangments to make up his riding time another day pc camp is once a year. OP could even take her son to watch so they still get some horsey time that week.

The other children taking the pony away from OP and her son after they had tacked up and were ready to ride is unacceptable but wanting to take the pony to camp isnt (which is what OP was moaning about first).

If you want to keep the pony then you need to have a chat about having priority on the days you have the pony and the owners being able to ride arround you. If not then either buy your own and keep it on working livery, find an out grown pony thats not being used so you can use it when ever you want or go find the local rda and get him involved that way. Sending a legal letter in this situation would get you a reputation and you will struggle to find another pony as news travels fast, your best bet is to have a chat with them about it and see what they have to say. Sharers are not cash cows as you like to put it but they would be expected to have some flexibility.
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Actually it is unacceptable unless it was agreed up front. It really doesn't matter how often PC camp is, if the owners wanted some flexibility in the arrangement they should have mentioned this when the agreement was made. And if they want to have carte blanche to have the pony whenever they want, then don't enter into a part loan agreement, simple as that. It is not unfair for the loaner to want use of the pony on the agreed and paid for days.

By the sounds of it the owners are making a nice profit from the loaner - it does not cost £75 a week to keep a LR pony on DIY livery! By the sounds of their general behaviour (taking pony off the child on the paid for days, PC camp etc) they are treating the loaner abominably.
 
You are actually paying for this pony's upkeep. Say £25 a week diy = £100 a month, farrier for a trim every couple of months = £10 a month (£20 a trim), most little ponies don't need much additional feed, so max of £10 a month, hay, max £40 a month, worming, jabs, etc, not too sure, but perhaps average of £20 a month?

That comes to £180 a month to keep that pony. They are taking complete advantage of you I'm afraid, I would chalk this down to experience and go buy your son his own little pony - or move closer to us and share ours - for nothing!
 
Nfp20 said:
works out as £75 per week (£25 per day) so we pay approx £325 per month £975 for 3 months give or take a week or two.

So its not cheap but its not expensive either given other loans that I saw available. We also brought hay, feed, replacement buckets, winter rugs, reflocked their saddle but also brought our own fitted tack etc that were not part of the agreement but which I felt was a fair additional contribution. We don't use their grooming kit I raided my old one and replaced a few of my brushes and kit plus a starter grooming kit for my son.

Obviously riding and safety equipment and insurance is our own responsibility.
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OMFG!!!!!!!!!!!!! You pay HOW much? And the added "extras"
Honestly.....go buy your son his own pony! And then get a part loaner/sharer in.
I need to go and lay down after reading that....I feel quite faint.
 
you wouldn't be far off getting basic full/part livery round here for that either if time for having your own is problematic!
 
I expected to pay a little more given than my son has special needs and I did have some people who offered their pony at loan decline when they learnt he was Autistic which is fair enough. I did explain that he is not violent or anything like that just insular this pony really has made such a difference and for that there isn't any money that I wouldn't pay. We have never forgotten that she is not our pony.

I do appreciate everyones advice and I think the drafting of a letter to terminate our contract is probably going to be the only solution, personally I doubt that I will see a return of the money we have paid. I appreciate that my first couple of posts may have sounded aggressive but I did not want to give too much information in case our owners just put a stop straight away as has been suggested the horse world is very small but as it looks like our only option is to terminate our contract anyway giving the additional information I doubt it will do any harm.

Thank you all for your advice and comments.
 
Things change. Contracts can be made but under the circumstances of a live animal, they only very rarely actually stand up in court so to speak...

The owner purchased the animal and whilst I can somewhat understand your annoyances, your best bet is to discuss with the owner and come to an agreement.

There is NOTHING to stop the owner ending the share agreement immediately so getting on your high horse (no pun intended) is not the way forward. If a compromise cannot be made, you're best off looking elsewhere.

Even IF the owner amended the contract to lay out the new terms, clearly this would not be suitable for you or your son, so it may be that nothing can be done.

I would say having said all that, if you cannot use the pony for a week, then you should not have to pay for that weeks money, but I think that is pretty self explanatory. But this is as far as it goes.
 
OP to give you a comparison I loaned my pony for £10 a week, that was for riding every day. Could be different because he lives at home so no livery fees but £75 is a huge cost for 3 days a week......I think you could get a much better deal with someone else. Its a shame because you obviously love this pony but its maybe time to consider moving on....

There might be something else underlying the owners inconsiderate behaviour which they haven't been open about. I would feel inclined to ask them this question rather than present my grievances to them. For example, they might feel that the pony needs to do more work because its not working hard enough with your son.....etc etc. Their behaviour does sound odd and my guess there are other factors at play here............. but quite frankly at that cost I would be moving on anyway.....£75! I think that is quite ridiculous tbh.

Hope you get something else sorted for your little boy.
 
Is it just me that finds this a bit unbelievable?

£75 a week and three months in advance for three days use of a LR pony.

I have never seen ponies for part loan advertised for this price (never mind more expensive as the OP states).

If the owners are genuinely charging this sort of money you would think that they would do everything possible to keep the pony on part loan and keep the money coming in.
 
A contract is a contract otherwise what is the point of having one?


Perhaps there should be certain flexibility and I do not think Nfp20 is being unreasonable in asking for the curtesy of being asked before arrangements are being made.

I expect that the owners will still expect the full money for the month even if the pony is not available for the week.

If I were to rent something to you, say a trailer for certain days a week, and you paid up front for this, and then I said that you could not have it for a certain time and you had a show booked, you would be very annoyed.
I know it is different with a pony but the owners should have said that there would be times when the pony would not be available.

I do not think that suing is going to get anything but trouble. The best thing is to talk to the owners and put your point of view. Tell them that you feel disappointed at the way you have been taken for granted.
 
HilaryG said:
Is it just me that finds this a bit unbelievable?

£75 a week and three months in advance for three days use of a LR pony.

I have never seen ponies for part loan advertised for this price (never mind more expensive as the OP states).

If the owners are genuinely charging this sort of money you would think that they would do everything possible to keep the pony on part loan and keep the money coming in.
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I don't really get it; 2 years looking for the pony, they've had it a year yet the child is a toddler :confused: Though as OP said, she's trying not to make herself too recognisable which is understandable.

OP - yes a contract is a legal document, however there really aren't any penalties for not following it, other than either party being able to terminate the agreement. Sadly I think you've reached that conclusion, so fingers crossed you can find something more suitable (and cheaper - it costs me less than that for my warmblood at livery!)
 
HilaryG said:
Is it just me that finds this a bit unbelievable?

£75 a week and three months in advance for three days use of a LR pony.

I have never seen ponies for part loan advertised for this price (never mind more expensive as the OP states).

If the owners are genuinely charging this sort of money you would think that they would do everything possible to keep the pony on part loan and keep the money coming in.
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Yes. I'm beginning to think it's made up to be honest. I've been on HHO too long though, so I tend to be suspicious of everyone :o:(
 
That's a hell of a lot of money. I am surprised the owners are not treating you like royalty. They must be off their rocker to mess a golden goose like you around.
 
Nfp20 said:
works out as £75 per week (£25 per day) so we pay approx £325 per month £975 for 3 months give or take a week or two.

So its not cheap but its not expensive either given other loans that I saw available. We also brought hay, feed, replacement buckets, winter rugs, reflocked their saddle but also brought our own fitted tack etc that were not part of the agreement but which I felt was a fair additional contribution. We don't use their grooming kit I raided my old one and replaced a few of my brushes and kit plus a starter grooming kit for my son.

Obviously riding and safety equipment and insurance is our own responsibility.
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That is not a loan. Loaning a horse, in my experience is when the horse is given to the loaner and treated by said loaner as their own horse, yet the owner retains ownership. No money changes hands.

That is ridiculously expensive. £75 per week is insane, especially when it's only for three days - you could buy your own pony and keep it on DIY livery, with a lesson a week for less than that! I charge less than that for full grass livery - which is all care of the horse at grass with exercise six days a week - so you could even put a pony on full or part grass livery if you haven't enough time to have it on DIY.

I agree with other posters about your attitude towards the whole thing though. Although these people sound like they've taken advantage of your being somewhat naive and stung you for a lot of money, and they are being slightly unreasonable turning up and expecting to ride on "your days", it is, after all, their pony. I would be fuming if a sharer told me I couldn't take my own horse to camp or a competition - regardless of a contract.

I feel for you, as they have obviously behaved badly, but threatening legal action is ridiculous. I would buy a pony for your son and let that be the end of it. It would be much less stressful for everyone I'm sure! I'm a senior RDA instructor, and I really commend you for getting your son involved with horses - they really do make an incredible difference. I also know how important routine is, and so it would make sense (to me, at least!) to buy a pony for your son and have him help you each day. Horses like routine almost as much as autistic children, I've found that getting children to help me with the horses, sticking to a clear and set routine, helps them enormously.

Good luck!
 
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Having loaned out and shared school masterponies to other people I have never took any money. I do not expect someone else to keep my pony even if my child never rides it.
Loaners pay for normal running costs but they take them home, I pay for vaccinations as I want them done.
If you are paying this amount of money I think they saw you coming.
 
HilaryG said:
Is it just me that finds this a bit unbelievable?

£75 a week and three months in advance for three days use of a LR pony.

I have never seen ponies for part loan advertised for this price (never mind more expensive as the OP states).

If the owners are genuinely charging this sort of money you would think that they would do everything possible to keep the pony on part loan and keep the money coming in.
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Not just you! I cannot believe anyone would pay that sort of money. Autistic child or not. If someone tried to charge me more just because my child had a disability I would not be impressed, especially as he's only young and therefore probably not hugely different in terms of responsibility to other children that age.

OP, apologies if we've all come across as harsh but a lot of people, particularly in the horse world, are fed up of the whole suing mentality that has come across from America over the recent years. I think it was the mention of legal action that has riled us all but now you've explained more we can all see the problem.

There is no way that it costs them that amount of money per month to have that pony, I think they are completely ripping the p**s out of you & making a nice little profit while their at it. Go out, get your own & find a nice sharer to help you out, if your lucky, someone who you can make a nice profit from too!
 
Asha said:
OP - understand your issue when you have child with special needs.
I would recommend buying your own.

We did this when my daughter was small. To help keep the pony worked, and also because i didnt have much time, we put the pony on working livery at a local riding school. They also understood, that if we wanted to go to shows etc during the summer months as long as we gave them notice that would be fine.

We did this for about a year until we realised my daughter was addicted enough to do it full time.

Please dont go down the legal route, regardless of who is right or wrong, you will be the one who gets a reputation for being difficult.

Good luck
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What a good idea. There are a lot of good riding schools out there who offer this option: Working livery would be a good solution. There are also a lot of wonderful small ponies looking for homes. I'm currently working at a riding school in France where they regularly teach autistic children and the care and attention the staff give the children and their supporters is fantastic. It is a pleasure to be involved in. I also know my local riding school in Scotland does much the same. I'm not sure how much research you have done into this option, but if it is a new idea, then perhaps you could research it. For the price you are currently paying for this share there must be another less stressful situation.

Having worked with autistic children, although not quite so small, I recognise the fears you have about changing your family's routine but the current situation and your anxiety created by it probably isn't helping him or the rest of your family either. If the pony's owners choose to end the contract you will be in the same situation as choosing to leave, but without the confidence in knowing it was your decision.

As a child my family always loaned ponies for me, (although not shared), because of my ever-growing legs and a limited pony-buying fund! It can be a wonderful opportunity to make lifelong friends and to learn so much. I'm not sure a letter would be well received in the current situation.

Good Luck with everything. Remember, ponies should be fun for everyone involved :)
 
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3BayGeldings said:
Yes. I'm beginning to think it's made up to be honest. I've been on HHO too long though, so I tend to be suspicious of everyone :o:(
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Same here, also noticed that she didn't mention that her son was autistic until someone else said that it would be a different if he was & suddenly he was.

Again might just be the fact that I'm a bit suspicious on here too, I've been a lurker a lot longer than a poster.

If you aren't OP then I apologise but all seems a little odd that your paying so much for so little. My 15'2 doesn't cost that much to keep in the middle of winter.
 
We have had the pony UNDER one year most of the winter.

Originally she was advertised as £20 per week for a days loan. I thought this reasonable as riding lessons can be anything up to £35 for an hour when I made my enquiries and not before the age of 5 years at the places I approached. This was increased to £25 given our child and I am happy to pay that. They offered an increase to the number of days which we accepted and paid same price for each day. My son is 3.5 so not technically a toddler but he is still under school age. We are a horse family on both sides my in-laws still have them and my son was on a horses back at 6 months I don't think what I have done is unreasonable at all.

I do appreciate it sounds a lot of money but our original outlay was £25 which I felt was reasonable.
 
OP even without the huge sum of money involved I still agree a contract is a contract after all what is the point of making one.

In your situation I would have a quiet word with the yard owner and explain everything. Ask if they think the owner is being unreasonable but dont mention legal action which to mind is pointless. If you can get the YO on side they may be able to plead your case and get the owner to have a rethink.

I can understand you not wanting to surrender this pony as he sounds a saint and they are not easy to find but you may have to if the YO dosnt want to get involved or cant help.

We bought our daughter a LR pony many years ago who taught her to ride and was wonderful but they are like gold dust, if he was still alive we would gladly loan him to you for free.
 
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