Loan Pony Breach of Contact

Walk away. Put it down to experience and never pay such a large amount again. Loan/share/hire etc .... it's still not your pony - ever. Owners can do what they like, "contract" or not - and these ones saw you coming! They will probably read this and so you will have no choice now anyway, my guess is that you will not see that money again. You have been naiive.

Either buy your own pony or take your child to riding lessons at a BHS registered school. Then you can have the sole control you demand.
 
Nfp20 said:
Originally she was advertised as £20 per week for a days loan. I thought this reasonable as riding lessons can be anything up to £35 for an hour when I made my enquiries and not before the age of 5 years at the places I approached. This was increased to £25 given our child and I am happy to pay that. They offered an increase to the number of days which we accepted and paid same price for each day. My son is 3.5 so not technically a toddler but he is still under school age. We are a horse family on both sides my in-laws still have them and my son was on a horses back at 6 months I don't think what I have done is unreasonable at all.
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They're taking the mickey, big time. It will be an upheaval, but I really think you need to get out of that situation, asap. There will be others out there, I promise :) They charged you more as your child is autistic?!
 
Nfp20 said:
We have had the pony UNDER one year most of the winter.

Originally she was advertised as £20 per week for a days loan. I thought this reasonable as riding lessons can be anything up to £35 for an hour when I made my enquiries and not before the age of 5 years at the places I approached. This was increased to £25 given our child and I am happy to pay that. They offered an increase to the number of days which we accepted and paid same price for each day. My son is 3.5 so not technically a toddler but he is still under school age. We are a horse family on both sides my in-laws still have them and my son was on a horses back at 6 months I don't think what I have done is unreasonable at all.

I do appreciate it sounds a lot of money but our original outlay was £25 which I felt was reasonable.
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Seriously, they have some cheek, and have taken major advantage of you.

In fact, they are probably making a considerable profit from you as I'd imagine it costs them less than half that to keep the pony themselves. I wonder if there would be any legal/tax implications if they are actually hiring the pony out for a profit - would they even be insured for that?

Please just get out of this situation and buy your own pony - it will be far cheaper and much less aggro. If you've paid in advance then I'd request the money back, but if they refuse to give it to you then just continue using the ponies on your agreed days up until the end of the term paid for.
 
My pony is on free full loan to a child who is autistic.
They pay all costs (minimal as he is kept at their farm) and he lives the life of bloody riley.
There is no way I would charge someone more simply because their child has special needs!
OP, I'll say it again, buy your son a pony of his own. Then get a sharer in to help with the costs and time.
You can't lose, and your son will have the stability he needs and as the pony will be your own, YOU can decide what days are best for you.
My boy is spoilt rotten by the little lass who has him, and he absolutely adores her!
 
There must be loads of older, quiet ponies looking for a home that would be suitable for you. You need something that is nice and quiet obviously, but I really think that it shouldn't be very difficult. Ask around the Pony Clubs.
 
No advice, just shocked at how cheeky the owners are being! £75 a week!! My 15.2 mare costs me £150 a month for everything!! Jeeeeeeez some people take the p***. If I had a lead rein pony and and someone suitable with a disabled child approached me I wouldn't hesitate to give it to them on full loan or just ask for the odd contribution for odds and ends. And your right horses are brilliant therapy :)
 
Nfp20 said:
I have already given in the respect of allowing the other child to ride the pony when it is not in use .............. but I also have to deal with a child that likes routine, loves his days at the yard and with this particular pony who he has a bond with and do not wish to disappoint my own anymore than I wish to disappoint someone else's.

................ but as my own has autism routine is incredibly important, something that was explained when I first took this mare on loan.
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Very interesting, given the inflexibility of OP.

I'm afraid that if the arrangement doesn't suit you, your only recourse is to terminate the agreement.
I do agree, however, that the pony's owners should have built some flexibility into the contract. Unfortunately if they are not used to loaning, they are maybe learning from their mistakes.

Sorry OP I've just read the price you are paying. I think it is far too much - no pony should cost that to keep per week, never mind for a few days.
I think you would be better all round buying your own pony.
 
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Nfp20 said:
works out as £75 per week (£25 per day) so we pay approx £325 per month £975 for 3 months give or take a week or two.

So its not cheap but its not expensive either given other loans that I saw available. We also brought hay, feed, replacement buckets, winter rugs, reflocked their saddle but also brought our own fitted tack etc that were not part of the agreement but which I felt was a fair additional contribution. We don't use their grooming kit I raided my old one and replaced a few of my brushes and kit plus a starter grooming kit for my son.

Obviously riding and safety equipment and insurance is our own responsibility.
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This is not credible, sorry. You write very well and I think I have been fooled by you, but I find it impossible to believe that in Ashbourne, just up the road from me, anyone can get away with charging £75 a week for the hire of a pony for three days.

It "is not expensive given other loans that were available" ? It's like no loan or contract hire I have heard of in my life! Please feel free to PM me with the name of the stables that you are at so I can check it out and apologise if I have misjudged you, but if this is true, you have been well and truly had.

Cancel to the contract citing their breach and demand your money back through the courts if necessary and put us all out of the misery of reading any more of this, which is getting a bit ridiculous :(
 
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cptrayes thank you for your generous welcome ;) I did not join this forum for you to decide whether my post and its content is honest or not I joined it to get some advice if you do not wish to add anything constructive then please feel free not to reply.

Legal Action I had in mind was a registered letter. At no point have I stated my intentions were to end up in court unless it was for return of my property.
 
You are being absolutely ripped off, £75 pw is nearly full livery price. The fact that your son has autism is actually neither here nor there when it comes to the price, you are not getting any special treatment/facilities or care, it is something you manage. I also think the owners are being unreasonable. You are not a sharer, you are paying a huge price that in my eyes means you have more than fairly hired/loaned the pony for the specific days.

TBH I would buy or full loan a pony, it would cost no more and you would have full control.
 
@ the OP

you bought things, and supplies for a horse that was never yours. you knew was never yours. now, correct me if i'm wrong, because i am an american, and so the legal system is slightly different. but, just because you bought things for this horse that was never yours, and it then didnt work out, i dont think any court would recognize "takebacks" to get your property back. if you didnt wanna lose it, you shouldnt have bought it for someone elses horse.

now, what was yours, and you kept in your possession, and you brought with you each time you had a day with your horse, thats different. but anything that was given to someone elses horse, or to the owner for said horse, you should consider lost, and have a little better judgement in the future.
 
cptrayes said:
I would terminate the agreement citing breach of contract on their side and demand the return of 10 weeks of your money.

From what you have tried already with the owners, who are taking the mickey, this is never going to work out, so you need to withdraw before your son becomes any more confused.
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We used to loan our son's first pony out. She stayed on our yard and we charged them £15 a week which covered the stable, bedding, hay and tiny bit of hard feed she got. They paid for shoes, insurance and injections. We also gave them lifts to rallies and shows. They had her 24/7. Not all of us see sharers/loaners as cash cows!

From your initial posts you came across as a bit haughty and self centred. (sorry!) Your later posts show that your situation is a bit special and that a lot of money is involved, so I feel a lot differently to the situation.

It does sound as though they have no respect for you at all, and are treating you more as a riding school client who has paid upfront and provided a lot of the equipment themselves! Its one thing for people to say that the owner should be able to take the pony to camp, but its not right to do that without letting the loaner/sharer know. Same goes for turning up to ride when you were about to. Its a basic lack of respect or manners on the owner's side.

I get the impression that the owners are fed up of the situation too - they have tried to change things by chatting to you, you couldn't, so refused, now they are just doing it without asking and almost trying to push you onto another pony or get you to leave.

I would prepare to terminate. Start rounding up as much of the rugs etc that you paid for before you tell them, as they will no doubt expect to keep them. I do think they were naughty taking so much money up front when they seem to be pushing to get rid of you, and I don't think a legal letter would be out of place if they don't refund you some of the money after a month's notice perhaps..

I agree with those who said find a good riding school or RDA centre, get some lessons there as a stop gap (a lot of riding schools that I've worked at are very quiet during the day..) and look for your own pony - even better if the pony could then go on working livery there when you find it.

Good luck.
 
Nfp20 said:
cptrayes thank you for your generous welcome ;) I did not join this forum for you to decide whether my post and its content is honest or not I joined it to get some advice if you do not wish to add anything constructive then please feel free not to reply.

Legal Action I had in mind was a registered letter. At no point have I stated my intentions were to end up in court unless it was for return of my property.
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You have my advice. If this is for real then you have been well and truly done over.

Walk away from the contract now and demand your advance paid money back. Your son is only three, (you started looking for a pony for him when he was not yet a year old?) He is small enough to control should he get upset about not seeing his pony. It's not ideal but neither is a situation where you take him to get the pony ready and then let some other child get on it. Why do you not refuse? Just stop the whole thing now before he gets even more attached to a pony where it is quite obvious the relationship must end. What do you think is going to happen in the summer holidays if you continue this? It makes no sense. End it now.
 
Thank you. I re-read my posts to make sure I wasn't misrepresenting myself and I have only asked for advice prior to seeking LEGAL ADVICE I made no suggestion of court proceedings.

Korwa the property I am referring to is the saddle and bridle that i purchased for my son to use on this pony. Basically I brought my own because I wanted something a little more comfortable for my son to use and because if I damage my own or if theirs gets damaged then I hold no responsibility for it.

Things like the rugs I would never dream of taking back I brought them for the comfort of the pony.
 
That's the horsey game for you, right and wrong morals blah blah won't come into it, you've been taken for a sap, learn and move on.
 
What a rotten situation for you,but once bitten twice shy,end the contract get back what belongs to you and get in touch with said pony club and see if there is a little very old pony wanting his last home with not to much hassle,just much love and the odd ridden exercise thrown in.
 
Nfp20 said:
I'm sure this has been discussed before but I hope you don't mind me placing my own as I need some basic advice with regard to loan pony agreements before seeking legal advice.

I have a loan pony on contract at the moment for my son a couple of days a week which for us is perfect as an ideal starting point as he's a toddler. I have no intention of buying our own until he is old enough to decide if he wants to go any further. The horses are primarily my interest and this is also partly for me but I have no wish to be a pushy parent. Financially this makes sense and if he decided that horses are not for him we can relinquish our responsibility with relative ease.

The yard is nice in a good quiet village where we do a little roadwork before coming on to the downs. The yard is child friendly which is excellent for us but as most of the children are school age we have the place to ourselves during the day and are usually finished by the time they start around 4-5ish. In that respect it really is just like having my own yard again with my our own family pony. We've had the loan of this pony under a year. She is fabulous perfect first lead pony and a good first pony at a height that my son can grow into - just what I was hoping for on that score I cannot complain. This is a real family activity its gets us as parents out and our son out on the days we have him with one leading and one walking beside the pony for safety.

However since the weather has started to improve the people we loan the pony from have started to take the, as my husband calls it, 'ripping p**s'. First of all it started with a request to change the days that we have her which I refused because we have a contract and we also have other activities planned but more importantly my husband is not available on the alternative days suggested and we are safety conscious. The reason give was that their child now had other activities and wished to use the pony on the same day. Then hints have been dropped about us changing ponies from our current to another which I feel is totally unsuitable something I have also refused although these hints keep coming.

We have tried to be accommodating in that if we have finished as we only do light work and if their daughter wishes to have a short ride then she may do so.

However this week it was announced that a) the pony was off for a weeks jolly to pony club, no asking if this was ok as it breaches our agreement and is not part of our contract for the pony to be unavailable b) the pony is being used for giving lessons and other rides on our contracted days again with no request for permission from us.

I appreciate that the pony is not ours and we have tried to be accommodating but to be honest I want to make sure that a stop is put to this now. We don't want to lose the pony she really is a great find and my son is really enjoying it just as I am teaching him the things I was taught as a child (our family have always had our own horses) as well as the basic care from having a horse again but what is the point of an agreement if they do not adhere to the spirit of it.

I would appreciate some advice. Having seen the other posts the majority appear to be from the other end of the scale of owners having poor loaners with their ponies. I myself lost my first and much loved pony to someone who sold her when on loan never to be seen again so I do appreciate both sides. I must say I am incredibly disappointed to potentially be losing this pony I certainly had long term plans for her.
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I agree with some of the points made by other posters. My own opinion is that you, as a sharer, need to be as flexible as possible - whether you have an agreement in place or not. You will find that your local agreement isn't legally binding in anyway as it involves property (the pony) that you have no ownership or right to.

If the changes are something that you can not put up with then you should move on and find another share or buy your own. I am not suggesting that you don't have the right to be pee'd off - you do but you don't have the right to be speaking of seeking legal advice about your rights to someone else's pony.

I do think sharers need to be more mindful of the owners time with the animal or duties on the whole, often sharers are getting a third of an animal's time for much less than the third of the costs! A sharer needs to be flexible and it doesn't sound like you have flexed on any point of your original agreement.

The bits that stand out for me from your post are 'she may do so' talking about the daughter riding on YOUR days and the phrase 'permission from us' - to be honest these have no place being used by a person in your position. Perhaps it is this stance that finds you in the predicament you are in!

Having now read even more of the thread - are you a plonker? (meant in the nicest possible way?) £75 per week and paying almost a thousand pounds in advance?! If you want to be in the horseworld you need to be a bit more savvy than that! That's just plain stupid in my opinion.
 
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I'm not sure what you want of us OP.

You state that the owners aren't adhering to the contract. You've had the gentle chat, which hasn't produced the 'correct' response. So, now have the cards on the table discussion. Be clear, precise, and concise. Get it all out into the open. Once you have their response, if it's not what you want/contracted for, then either you sue for breach (which you will have to document you gave them the right to remedy), or accept that is how it is and enjoy what you can of the pony for as long as you have left on the contract.

I appreciate that your son has autism, but where horses are concerned, even in the normal course of events, things do not always run smoothly.
 
I feel for you OP, you've obviously put a lot of faith in these people and for your son's benefit. However, the mention of the word 'legal' in any context will end the contract, as they've already proven themselves not to be reasonable, as you say that you have already spoken to them. Added to that, if the thought of the £75 over the odds a week that you are paying them hasn't made them behave better to you, I doubt much will work.
 
As someone who used to part loan, share and now owns my own horses and ponies I can see both sides to this.
Legal action will solve nothing and would only cause more bad feeeling. yes it is very upsettng for any child to be unable to ride{more so when you dont own your own pony}, but some flexabilty should also be applied.
I part loan my daughters first pony out and its all done in a very friendly and flexable way, with consideration being given to all parties, if one of the sharers/loaners were to wave legal action under my nose, I would cancel the whole aggrement, I need to have a kind, supportive and flexable relationship with them.
Sadly it sounds like although the pony is perfect, the relationship between owner and loaner is not, legal action wont fix this.
 
OK so you have tried the chat route - your OP didn't say that & you came across as quite snotty. It was your posts that made you sound like the sharer from hell - maybe communication/empathy skills are something you find difficult.
It does sound like the owners are truly giving you the run around & right royally taking the micky (but there was a recent mega hooha on here that really showed up that there are 2 sides to every story). The £75pw is really quite ridiculous - I am having trouble finding a 3 day a week share for a horse for £20pw & I am happy for the sharer to do PC/RC activities with him.
Walk away, as many have already suggested. If you want absolute stability buy your own - it's got to be cheaper. A legal letter won't get you what you want. More likely your son wouldn't even get a chance to say goodbye to the pony & that would be terribly sad for him. Terminate the contract but make sure you can do it in the best way for him, even if that means he says goodbye before you tell the owner & you lose money. Do it before it gets nasty, because whether they are behaving as you say they are or not I can't see this situation working for long & one of you could so easily do/say something silly & you need to protect your child from the fallout.
 
xspiralx said:
It's a part loan. Presume the contract states that the 'loaner' has full use and care of the pony on the specified days.

I am actually shocked by the attitudes of people on this thread. Is this how sharers are seen? As a cash cow to help with the costs and care of the horse, but whose rights can be ridden roughshod over at the whim of the owner? It's just disrespectful.
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I absolutely agree with this - OP is absolutely right (albeit legal action is a bit OTT!)

Sorry, but if I had an agreement with a loaner (part or full) and we had a written or even verbal agreement I would make every effort to stick to it. Sorry, but if money changes hands and you are happy to take said money they you MUST be happy to stick to the rules and RESPECT the other party. This respect goes both ways! Very simply if you do not want to take money for loaning anything and want to keep this something to yourself then great. If you want to take the money then you have to play by the rules! Having cake and eating it comes to mind!!

OP - you need to remind them in no uncertain terms what you agreement says. I would let them take the pony on PC camp under one proviso only and that is they NEVER take the pee again and next year they ask your permission before going to camp again! The other child obviously knows about camp and I would hate to stop them from going. Camp for little ones usually only lasts for 4 days so a swapsee could be in order of days?

Be firm, stand your ground but lawyers are not the way to handle this issue.

Others on here - please never loan a horse out - you obviously have absolutely no respect for anyone that would loan from you and it would be a roller coaster of pain for your poor loanee!
 
mcnaughty said:
I absolutely agree with this - OP is absolutely right (albeit legal action is a bit OTT!)

Sorry, but if I had an agreement with a loaner (part or full) and we had a written or even verbal agreement I would make every effort to stick to it. Sorry, but if money changes hands and you are happy to take said money they you MUST be happy to stick to the rules and RESPECT the other party. This respect goes both ways! Very simply if you do not want to take money for loaning anything and want to keep this something to yourself then great. If you want to take the money then you have to play by the rules! Having cake and eating it comes to mind!!

OP - you need to remind them in no uncertain terms what you agreement says. I would let them take the pony on PC camp under one proviso only and that is they NEVER take the pee again and next year they ask your permission before going to camp again! The other child obviously knows about camp and I would hate to stop them from going. Camp for little ones usually only lasts for 4 days so a swapsee could be in order of days?

Be firm, stand your ground but lawyers are not the way to handle this issue.

Others on here - please never loan a horse out - you obviously have absolutely no respect for anyone that would loan from you and it would be a roller coaster of pain for your poor loanee!
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I think it is clear that you have never had a sharer take the mick!? You can't use the words 'let', 'permission', 'never', 'stop' when you are a sharer/loaner. It is the position you put yourself in when you become a sharer. Precisely the reason why I ended up buying my own. I have had a sharer and I would like to think I didn't treat her badly. If a sharer ever tried to tell me that I couldn't take my horse away on a camp (with prior notice) because it breached her original arrangement then I would politely tell them to bog off. I wonder how many sharers arrange holiday cover for 'their' days if they are away. Very few I would imagine - the owner is expected to cover those days!!

Laughable!
 
Sadly I have to agree.

It is a shame really until recently its been a lovely experience for us but as others have said things change thats life and I do appreciate that but as you have said I put my faith in these people and had no reason to think things would turn out like this. Other people at the yard have had a bit of a raw deal and been verbal about it so I should not be surprised or disappointed but I am especially as there was an opportunity when I paid my last fee for them to decline and terminate our contract with a period of notice if they wanted to.
 
I agree with xspiralx on everything.

Shocking behaviour from the owners of the pony.

If I had a lead rein pony suitable for your son I would gladly offer the ride free of charge. I would do this because as a mother I understand that there is nothing better than seeing your child happy and smiling.
Sadly I don't have one and I'm thinking 19hh may be too big? :eek:

I really hope you can find a suitable pony for your son and he continues to get the enjoyment that every child deserves (well maybe with the exception of my 4 year old daughter when she is in full on tantrum mode :D )

I wish you well.
 
That amount of money is just bonkers! I pay HALF that for my big 15hh 2" cob to be on working livery - it means he gets looked after 7 days a week and ridden when I can't get up there. The days when I can get there, I can 'play' with him as much as I like. That would be a far more suitable arrangement for you. There is an old girl at our yard that is used for children (including disabled and autistic) who is an absolute poppet - I am sure there must be hundreds of similar out there??
 
I feel for you, but at the end of the day people loan/share so that they can have the final say. We have been happily sharing horses/ponies for over 30 years, then we had the family from hell, they lied, stole and when we got fed up and told them to leave they refused! They stole tack/cash and our cats, the only reason i didnt call the police was because i know what a good liar she is!! I very much believe that we get back what we give out, someone sold them a pony that the vet had advised be put to sleep, it collapsed on the road, they were lied to. Perhaps now they know how we felt.
In your case i would find another pony.
 
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