Loan Pony Breach of Contact

S

Star_Chaser

Well-Known Member
Joined
2 June 2012
Messages
1,429
Location
Ashbourne
Visit site
I'm sure this has been discussed before but I hope you don't mind me placing my own as I need some basic advice with regard to loan pony agreements before seeking legal advice.

I have a loan pony on contract at the moment for my son a couple of days a week which for us is perfect as an ideal starting point as he's a toddler. I have no intention of buying our own until he is old enough to decide if he wants to go any further. The horses are primarily my interest and this is also partly for me but I have no wish to be a pushy parent. Financially this makes sense and if he decided that horses are not for him we can relinquish our responsibility with relative ease.

The yard is nice in a good quiet village where we do a little roadwork before coming on to the downs. The yard is child friendly which is excellent for us but as most of the children are school age we have the place to ourselves during the day and are usually finished by the time they start around 4-5ish. In that respect it really is just like having my own yard again with my our own family pony. We've had the loan of this pony under a year. She is fabulous perfect first lead pony and a good first pony at a height that my son can grow into - just what I was hoping for on that score I cannot complain. This is a real family activity its gets us as parents out and our son out on the days we have him with one leading and one walking beside the pony for safety.

However since the weather has started to improve the people we loan the pony from have started to take the, as my husband calls it, 'ripping p**s'. First of all it started with a request to change the days that we have her which I refused because we have a contract and we also have other activities planned but more importantly my husband is not available on the alternative days suggested and we are safety conscious. The reason give was that their child now had other activities and wished to use the pony on the same day. Then hints have been dropped about us changing ponies from our current to another which I feel is totally unsuitable something I have also refused although these hints keep coming.

We have tried to be accommodating in that if we have finished as we only do light work and if their daughter wishes to have a short ride then she may do so.

However this week it was announced that a) the pony was off for a weeks jolly to pony club, no asking if this was ok as it breaches our agreement and is not part of our contract for the pony to be unavailable b) the pony is being used for giving lessons and other rides on our contracted days again with no request for permission from us.

I appreciate that the pony is not ours and we have tried to be accommodating but to be honest I want to make sure that a stop is put to this now. We don't want to lose the pony she really is a great find and my son is really enjoying it just as I am teaching him the things I was taught as a child (our family have always had our own horses) as well as the basic care from having a horse again but what is the point of an agreement if they do not adhere to the spirit of it.

I would appreciate some advice. Having seen the other posts the majority appear to be from the other end of the scale of owners having poor loaners with their ponies. I myself lost my first and much loved pony to someone who sold her when on loan never to be seen again so I do appreciate both sides. I must say I am incredibly disappointed to potentially be losing this pony I certainly had long term plans for her.
 
Last edited:
The only way you are going to get around this is to buy your own, unless you actually own a part share in the pony I don't see there is a lot you can do. The owners will want to swap days etc every now and again as you may which is not unreasonable, neither is the wish to take the pony to camp. I think you have to reach a compromise somewhere and I don't think the 'legal' route is the way to go, word gets around and you don't want to put people's backs up before you have even started.
What would you do if the pony became sick/lame and was unavailable?
 
To me it hugely depends on how much you are paying. I had outgrown ponies that friends used over the years, but I never bothered with a contract as I usually only ask friends that I trust and what they paid was nominal, so I had overall say over what happens.

The bottom line is that the pony is theirs, and if they want to take it to pony camp for their daughter, that's their decision and there wouldn't be much point them having the pony if they couldn't take to to camp.

I agree they should have told you that there would be odd weeks when the pony was unavailable, but if it is only for one week, is that such a huge issue for you? What happens if the pony goes lame, is there anything in the contract to cover that?

If you feel you pay a hefty portion of what the pony costs, perhaps you should ask for a week's money back. Otherwise if everything else is perfect, I would put up and shut up, otherwise if you were borrowing my pony I would be extremely reluctant to renew the contract as you do sound somewhat "I've signed a contract, I want my rights" type.
 
I'm sorry, this probably isn't what you want to hear but if you don't want to lose the pony I don't think there's anything you can do about it.

If it were my pony and part loaners started to make a fuss about me doing the things I'd bought it for (pony club camps etc) I'd give them notice, sorry.

If you love the pony that much I'd try to be as accommodating as possible. Does it make any difference to your son's ride if somebody else uses the pony on the same day? If not I'd be inclined to let it go since it sounds like the owners don't mind if you move on to another pony anyway.

Sorry, I agree it's unfair but life's like that. If you make a fuss you stand to lose the pony completely. Sorry.
 
I am surprised you have such a specific contract if I'm honest. I never had one for my sharers, although they were on a much more low key basis. I would also say if you were sharing a childs pony which they also ride, then you should expectit to go to camp andfor them to want to ride it everyday during the holidays, most ponies areunderworked, and you aren't doing huge amounts with it. The offerof adifferent pony could be because they want that one for times when they know you want to ride, and are trying to give you options rather than saying good bye. Do you pay a large contribution or a smaller one? Owning your own is really the only way to guarentee anything with ponies, although I do know of a few riding schools who offer a similar arrangement, although of course there ponies are also used for lessons.
 
Tend to agree with the others. If the pony and set up is perfect for you, try to work with the owners and be a little more flexible.
If it isn't working for you, then look else where and you may find a pony that doesn't have a rider.
These sorts of arrangements tend to work on goodwill as ultimately the owners bear the biggest responsibility for the pony, particularly in times of illness or injury.
Are you really contemplating legal action ? If this is the case, the cost and stress would be a high price to pay. Perhaps you'd be better off part loaning at an RS where it would be a more business orientated approach.
 
I~m a bit bemused at the suggestion of taking legal advice :o

If the share isnt working for you, Id say it would be a cheaper, less stressful, and more sensible idea to just move on. Yes, you like the pony, but what do you expect to achieve with taking the legal route?
There has to be an element of give and take with sharing an animal, and Im afraid the way I see it the owners get first dibs on the pony. The contracts usually reflect this.

If I was the owner and you came at me with legal speak (never mind taking it further!) you'd be off down the road.
I think if you really like this pony you need to think about whether you can make this share work, with a little more flexibility and a little less 'my rights', and if not reconsider if this is the share for you :)
 
Have you tried a nice friendly chat over a cup of tea & biscuits. It's a lot cheaper than a lawyer & usually far more effective. It really sounds like there has been a lack of communication & mutual misunderstanding here. TBH if I were the owner & I heard you were thinking of talking to a lawyer I would end the loan with no further discusion.
 
Oh dear I can see that most people do not understand what a contract is or that it is a legal binding agreement between parties that holds consequences for both parties should they breach it. Cost of legal representation is null and void for me as it would cost me nothing.

This pony is paid for under that agreement in advance I am neither friends or relative of the person who owns it and it is not a 'friendly' handshake agreement as I have stated this pony is under contract. She was advertised for loan to remain at the current yard for a specific number of days. It is therefore not available to the owners on those days without reasonable request (not in the contract I might add!) which I as the other party am within my rights to refuse.

When or if the pony is ill I still pay the same amount and I am still responsible for it on those days, the veterinary care of the pony is contractually the responsibility of the owner. I take my responsibilities seriously including the part about contractual agreements. This is not about the money paid but about the fact that a simple courtesy is not being met and that they are in breach of the contract signed by both parties in behaving they way they are.

If you wish to loan your pony out then you too must abide by the contractual agreement that you have put into place otherwise it is worthless. It is not a case of thanks for the money but I'll still do whatever I want to do and a little courtesy never goes a miss. I would never treat a person like this if I have made an agreement and I do not expect others to behave poorly either.

If pony club or changes of days were anticipated or even if they were not then it should have been written into the contract not just assumed that it is acceptable to do whatever the owner likes.

Otherwise where is the line drawn???

I am a reasonable person I am an excellent loaner as I take good care of my charges, I advise what I have done I am not just a turn up and ride sort of person which so many part loaners can be to the detriment of the pony or horse concerned but neither am I someone to take the p**s out of.
 
Last edited:
No I understand what a contract is, as Im sure do most of the other people who have taken the time to respond to your thread.

But, ultimately, who would be daft enough to spend lots of time and money taking someone to court on something as petty as the ow ners of a pony taking it to pony camp? No reasonable person Ive ever met.
 
Nfp20 said:
Oh dear I can see that most people do not understand what a contract is or that it is a legal binding agreement between parties that holds consequences for both parties should they breach it.
Click to expand...

You're quite right, most of the posters on here aren't lawyers. They do however possess a reasonable amount of common sense IME.

If I was the pony's owner I'd be stopping the part share (as it's not a loan at all) immediately (subject to terms of contract, naturally)
 
Good luck with that then

I just hope the owners put a clause in to end this agreement immediately, otherwise they could end up stuck.

I think they are already trying to tell you something by asking you to change to another pony.

At the end of the day if you dont like it end the agreement and try to find something which suits you better.
 
i have to agree with the majority here. they are still the owners. and as the owners, should be able to do whatever it is they want with the pony. as a sharer, you agree to be able to do things as well. but, if they're not giving you the amount of time, or the days, or the price you're willing to, then there are plenty of other ponies out there to go get a share of. if this situation is no longer working for you, you can find a pony you like just as much i'm sure.

and think about it the other way around. if you owned a pony, and your schedule changed, would you give up your time you had available with him so that your sharer could be happy?
 
I have no doubt that you consider yourself a perfect loaner, personally a perfect loaner to me would be one who has an element of give and take. I hope the owners do not frequent the forum as I imagine you would soon find yourself pony less if they saw this thread. As I said before, the horse world is very small and word soon gets around, you may have a contract but this is the sort of case that should be sorted out over a friendly chat with hopefully both parties compromising a bit, go the legal route everyone locally will hear about it and any hope of loaning etc will disappear.
 
I understand the meaning of a contract too, I did guess that you had access to free legal representation but was trying to be polite.

If I were the ponies owners and saw this, I'd be ending the agreement pronto.
 
I feel very sorry for the owners of the pony. I dont think you can describe yourself as a perfect loaner at all! Does the contract specify sole use of the pony on specified days?

Actually, on reflection, I dont think it really matters, as I expect your going to find this contract terminated very shortly....
 
So you want to deny a small child the chance to go to pony club camp and have a great time so your son can wonder round on the pony for a short time? Can you put your self in the shoes of that child? If it bothers you that much just ask to make the days up another time or dont pay for that week, even though by the sounds of it they have offered you another pony so you dont have to miss out.

As for the child riding the pony on the same day as your son, he is still on the lead rein, the pony will cope being ridden twice. Infact I'd go as far as to say it will be good for the pony to be ridden twice a day! As long as the times dont clash then I really dont see the problem with the pony being worked twice a day (if you can call a stroll with a small child on work).

If I had a sharer that was being that unflexable I'd be ending the arrangment!
 
I have already given in the respect of allowing the other child to ride the pony when it is not in use and I would have no issue with her being taken for the pony camp event IF I had actually been asked in advance as I said I am reasonable but I also have to deal with a child that likes routine, loves his days at the yard and with this particular pony who he has a bond with and do not wish to disappoint my own anymore than I wish to disappoint someone else's.

I am surprised that so many people complain about the way a person who loans their pony behaves when things go wrong but feel that they have the right to breach those very same contracts when the boot is on the other foot...

Legal advice is of course the last resort hence why I came to this forum for advice as a friendly chat is not proving to be fruitful.

Dexter - yes it is specific for my child on that day.
Dafthoss - the other pony suggested is not a novice ride certainly not an animal I would place a child on. No I have no wish to deny use for pony club for the child who owns this pony but as my own has autism routine is incredibly important, something that was explained when I first took this mare on loan.
 
Last edited:
I can't see that them wanting to go to Pony Club Camp for a week Is unreasonable?? It is their pony.

Tbh you sound like a bit of a nightmare to deal with, and rigid to the letter. Unfortunately real life is often so inflexible :)

As your child is a toddler it's unlikely to affect him if other people ride it in a day.

And if the pony is as perfect as you say etc, wouldn't it be worth a bit of give and take to keep it...?

Tbh if it was my pony I would be terminating the contract if I read this.

And as for legal advice, what do you actually want to acheive???? Your money back!? Because if you go down the legal route (ridiculous) you certainly won't be allowed near the pony again, or any others in the area for that matter.

I hope you get it sorted out but I think your attitude could need a rethink :)
 
Actually I feel sorry for the OP, though I think they are being a little unrealistic.

If the owners have made an agreement with the loaner, then it isn't acceptable to start messing around with the terms, announcing that they are taking the pony off for weeks at PC camp without so much as a by your leave, or allowing other people to ride on the contracted days. They take money off the OP, they are not allowing her the use of the pony as a favour!

I don't think anything they are doing is terribly bad, but I think it is ill mannered. It would be one thing to ask the OP if she minded the pony going off to PC camp for a week or being used by other people on her days, or if this had been discussed prior to the arrangement being made - but just to inform her that this would be happening is rude.

Yes ultimately the owners can do what they like with the pony, but if they wish to have full control of the pony then they ought not take money for sharing it out.

OP - the legal route sounds completely pointless. If you're no longer happy with the situation then terminate the loan and find another pony.
 
If the OP had come on here for a moan about the owners being rather rude I would have agreed.

Threatening legal action over something like is ridiculous.

As I said I think the owners will be ending the loan as soon as they can legally get out of it.

And this is a lesson to us all. Contracts seem like a good idea so everything is laid out. Perhaps not always the way forward unless they are worded to give a bit of flexibility where necessary.
 
dafthoss said:
So you want to deny a small child the chance to go to pony club camp and have a great time so your son can wonder round on the pony for a short time? Can you put your self in the shoes of that child?
Click to expand...

Bit unfair!

Firstly, it is irrelevant what her son is doing with the pony - who is to say his wander around gives him less enjoyment than the other child going to PC camp? And why should her son be 'denied' his rides for the week any more than the other child?

Secondly, she would not be denying the other child anything - the owners of the pony chose to put it on part loan, and take money to compensate for that.

Why should the sharer be made to feel bad for wanting the use of the pony as per the agreement that she has paid for? If the owners wanted the full control of the pony on any given day, then they ought not to have entered into a share agreement - or at least made it clear up front that the pony would sometimes be wanted for PC activities.
 
Nfp20 said:
I have already given in the respect of allowing the other child to ride the pony when it is not in use and I would have no issue with her being taken for the pony camp event IF I had actually been asked in advance as I said I am reasonable but I also have to deal with a child that likes routine, loves his days at the yard and with this particular pony who he has a bond with and do not wish to disappoint my own anymore than I wish to disappoint someone else's.

I am surprised that so many people complain about the way a person who loans their pony behaves when things go wrong but feel that they have the right to breach those very same contracts when the boot is on the other foot...

Legal advice is of course the last resort hence why I came to this forum for advice as a friendly chat is not proving to be fruitful.

Dexter - yes it is specific for my child on that day.
Dafthoss - the other pony suggested is not a novice ride certainly not an animal I would place a child on. No I have no wish to deny use for pony club for the child who owns this pony but as my own has autism routine is incredibly important, something that was explained when I first took this mare on loan.
Click to expand...

Sorry BUT its NOT a loan,you are sharing and thats totally different.
 
Tinseltoes said:
Sorry BUT its NOT a loan,you are sharing and thats totally different. The owners can do as they please as the pony belongs to them not you.
Click to expand...

It's a part loan. Presume the contract states that the 'loaner' has full use and care of the pony on the specified days.

I am actually shocked by the attitudes of people on this thread. Is this how sharers are seen? As a cash cow to help with the costs and care of the horse, but whose rights can be ridden roughshod over at the whim of the owner? It's just disrespectful.
 
It took me two years to find this one. Having a child with Autism is incredibly difficult they require a routine that to some would be totally unworkable you have to give up an incredible amount but horses offer great therapy which is why we took this mare on loan in the first place. The other days suggested my child attends a specialist school this offers me respite as well as being able to work.

All of this was explained before we signed contracts. If I am given plenty of notice then I can arrange alternative activities but if there is no notice I have a child on my hands that literally disappears and its an incredible set back for us.

Time is a luxury which is why a part loan for now is ideal and all the time the sun has not been out we have seen no one on the days that we have her but it seems that as soon as the sun appears suddenly this horse is being used not just for the child concerned but for other uses too on the days we have paid for and agreed upon.

I don't feel I am being unreasonable as I discussed very carefully our situation prior to taking this pony on.
 
Thank god you don't share my daughters pony! You would've had your notice as soon as you started your moaning like a school child! Grow up!

Pony is possibly on PART SHARE so it gets exercise and attention on days the OWNER doesn't/can't make it to the yard. With holidays etc these are usually flexible and SHARERS (that would be you!) are usually supposed to be flexible just as the owner would be if you were to go anywhere!

You sound like a nightmare and I'd have you off my yard ASAP.
 
Nfp20 said:
It took me two years to find this one. Having a child with Autism is incredibly difficult they require a routine that to some would be totally unworkable you have to give up an incredible amount but horses offer great therapy which is why we took this mare on loan in the first place. The other days suggested my child attends a specialist school this offers me respite as well as being able to work.

All of this was explained before we signed contracts. If I am given plenty of notice then I can arrange alternative activities but if there is no notice I have a child on my hands that literally disappears and its an incredible set back for us.

Time is a luxury which is why a part loan for now is ideal and all the time the sun has not been out we have seen no one on the days that we have her but it seems that as soon as the sun appears suddenly this horse is being used not just for the child concerned but for other uses too on the days we have paid for and agreed upon.

I don't feel I am being unreasonable as I discussed very carefully our situation prior to taking this pony on.
Click to expand...



I still think you are going to get absolutely nowhere by threatening legal action.

One way or another you are going to loose this share. Perhaps give it up and make other arrangements before things get nasty, and I have no doubt they will.

As has been said before the horsey world is small and you dont want to have word get around or you will never find another one.
 
I'm so sorry but you sound like the loaner/sharer from hell! If your son needs routine buy your own, this perfect mare you share does not belong to you! Gosh, I hope the owners read this thread and dump you ASAP...you want them to pay your legal fees so you can stop their child going to camp on her pony!? Amazing.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top