Loaner Issues

[TheChestnutThing]

The age old loaner issues...

I have my semi retired horse out on full loan as he was not loving being on a competitive yard and there was not enough hacking around for him to do what he now loves.

In my contract it stated:
Vaccines etc must be kept up to date
No one else to ride him except the loaner
Any changes regarding tack (she bought his tack off of me) should be discussed (very fussy horse with the worst mouth ever)

I have kept my distance, not visited and left them too it, and the loaner has sent regular updates every month or so. He is literally 12 miles from me, but I felt it best to not be in their faces.
I checked on him this weekend and found a horse with zero to no muscle (fat but grass belly fat), a sub par bedding situation in the stable (could see the rubber matting if I dusted my foot through it), and when I called the vet (my own fault I know but I had reminded the loaner at the time), vaccines were not done (5 months over due), teeth were not done (1 month over due - my dentist informed me she hadn't booked), and he hadn't had a worm count done/been wormed.
Loaner had also let her daughter ride him, and she had changed his bridle and bit (new bit was pretty much the gucci version of the one I had but she had changed from and eggbut to a loose ring and the bridle was no longer a micklem).

Horse is taken care off, basic needs met, big field, and is happy and she loves him. But the fact that at 17 he has a sub par bed, she has neglected his muscle building (aka topline which of course in an older horse is very important) and his routine checks were not done as per contract do annoy me (to the point of saying do I take him back).

I have of course addressed this all in writing and given til the end of the day to book all routine care.

Thoughts in the matter? What would you do?

 

[AShetlandBitMeOnce]

Give them a chance to catch him up with it all, keep in regular contact and visit horse once a fornight or once a month - one slip up and horse gets removed.
If he is semi retired, he doesn't need to be hugely muscled up and it may be tricky to keep him muscled if he is just mooching about but no excuses for the rest of it. If he is happy in his new bridle I wouldn't personally be that bothered about that bit either.

However, if you want him back have him back and retire him or similar.

 

[Flyermc]

is he stabled or is the bed just something for him to stand on when he's in for a short time?

either way if your not happy, remove him

 

[TheChestnutThing]

He is stabled at night.

 

[SusieT]

When did you last check up on him? I appreciate they've not kept their side of the bargain but a routine check is important.

 

[Tiddlypom]

IMHO it all depends on what the loaner does now.

Either they fess up and apologise that they had let things slide a bit, and promise to correct things asap, or they come back with back chat and 'reasons' for breaking the loan terms without consulting you.

There's hope if it's the first, but you do need to keep up the checks - at least weekly at first. If it's the second, then I'd take the horse back now.

 

[TheChestnutThing]

When did you last check up on him? I appreciate they've not kept their side of the bargain but a routine check is important.

I haven't since October...due to personal circumstances (having to be overseas due to my mom falling ill) and genuine lack of time. It however is an oversight on my part and I will definitely be making another visit next week.

 

[TheChestnutThing]

He is stabled at night.

He is stabled at night.

 

[Red-1]

Mine are on thick beds over rubber mats, but I know many people only use a dusting, so was a thick bed specified?

Older horses may have a lack of muscle.

It sounds like the tack thing is minor, they have kept with the basic instructions and if you were abroad, it may have been tricky to specify.

I would see what their attitude to the missed medical appointments is. That is the thing that would bug me. Are they short of money? Is the horse generally attended to? Is he clean and happy?

 

[honetpot]

I have loaned several out, and the trouble is, that they or someone on their yard to has their ear, always knows better than you. Not sure about the muscles, just like people at a certain age you will get changes in muscle mass, the bedding, perhaps someone told them with rubber mats they do not need a bed to lie on, some people put no bedding down.
I suppose it depends on how they respond, but if you are unhappy, bring him home. I pay for my horses vaccinations, had to give them a reminder to book, and even then they left it until the day it was due. I have only had one loaner who cared for my animal better than I did, I am afraid most are a bit sloppy.

 

[Archangel]

Could the loss of muscle be something like PPID?

 

[Mary3050]

Best to have a discussion with the loaner and I would put it in writing . My contract states that they have 7 days to put any issue right . I would give them a time frame to address the issues . Although I don’t think many vets will come to vaccinate but they should at least make an appointment in a week .

I am very lucky that my horse is on loan to a friend but even people who I didn’t know if they came to look at him for a loan . I was very clear I still wanted to be a part of his life . Obviously I wouldn’t go up every 5 minutes or turning up unannounced. If they didn’t like it they weren’t the right people for my boy .

 

[ester]

Tricky because you say he’s happy but for me it’s inexcusable to miss routine medical stuff. As a twice loaner (from friends) I can’t imagine ever doing that and we certainly never changed anything for either of them without owner agreement/any concerns have been fed back immediately and a plan agreed.
Im not sure I could trust your current loaners going forward tbh.

 

[AmyMay]

Lots of people don’t ride regularly through the winter months, so an older horse can loose muscle and take a while to put it back on, especially if they’re not ridden regularly.

If the horse is on rubber matting, theoretically not much bed is required. Maybe she finds he goes better in a loose ring (many horses hate an eggbutt. ). Is the bridle just a plain caversson?

Vaccinations and teeth may be an oversight.

 

[Gloi]

If they've missed the vaccs and the course needs restarting because of that they should foot the bill.

 

[CMcC]

Missed routine vaccinations and dentist plus daughter riding (and anyone else you don’t know about) would be enough for me to end the loan immeadiately.

But I sometimes make rash decisions in the moment and reflecting later that if he is happy in the situation maybe with a bit closer monitoring the loan could continue.

Sorry, probably doesn’t help.

 

[Trouper]

I'd end the loan immediately. 5 months is not just an oversight and I would not trust them to keep up to the standards you expect when your back is turned again. What else are they not doing for him?

For me, loaning someone else's horse puts extra pressure on me to "do things right" and not be so cavalier about it all. I have been in the situation where it was all excuses and promises and, at first, I gave the loaner the benefit of the doubt. I wished I had not as it took a lot longer to get the horse back to how she should have been - and was at the start of the loan.

 

[Ratface]

I would take him back if appointments with dentist and veterinarian were not in place within five days.
Is your horse having appropriate attention from a DWCF-registered farrier?
Animals need consistent and appropriate care throughout their lives. If the current loaner cannot reliably provide this, I would be moving him ASAP.

 

[throwawayaccount]

It’s literally no excuse to not keep up with basic needs for a horse, stated in a contract or not

did she not send you regular photos etc ?

I would take him back personally

 

[AmyMay]

It’s literally no excuse to not keep up with basic needs for a horse, stated in a contract or not

It doesn’t state anywhere that the horse’s basic needs aren’t being met.

 

[Tiddlypom]

Vaccinations, dentist and worm count/wormer are basic needs IMHO.

 

[ester]

Agreed

 

[throwawayaccount]

Vaccinations, dentist and worm count/wormer are basic needs IMHO.

yep x

 

[TheChestnutThing]

Thank you everyone

 

[eggs]

Just to play devil’s advocate - could the loaner have used a different vet / EDT to you? Was it in the contract that they had to use a specific vet?

If jabs and teeth have been missed give them written notice that these need to be done by ‘x’ date otherwise you will need to end the loan.

 

[Dave's Mam]

Just to play devil’s advocate - could the loaner have used a different vet / EDT to you? Was it in the contract that they had to use a specific vet?

If jabs and teeth have been missed give them written notice that these need to be done by ‘x’ date otherwise you will need to end the loan.

I was going to ask the same.

 

[Michen]

I’d simply pick the horse up immediately. The trust is now broken.

 

[BeansNsausages]

I wouldnt personally remove the horse for this.

Give her a timescale to resolve your concerns and lay down the law. Make it clear that another slip up and the horse will be coming home with you.

If the horse is happy and otherwise settled, I would try and work for a resolution before going in all guns blazing.

 

[Gingerwitch]

If your not happy just bring him home, but beware of a social media accusation that you used her for the winter care and costs and now Spring is here you want him back.

 

[Dave's Mam]

Even if loaner has used another vet & EDT, you say he's lost condition & his facilities are not to your desire.

Go & bring him home.