WaterySun852
Well-Known Member
This is probably gonna sound cheeky but if she bought his tack off you, what happens to it if you take the horse back?
Loaner Issues
- Thread starter TheChestnutThing
- Start date
Tiddlypom
Carries on creakily
It's up to the loaner what she does with the tack as she now owns it, so she is fully entitled to keep it or to dispose of it as she thinks fit.
PinkvSantaboots
Well-Known Member
I would get him back thats not my idea of being looked after properly, I would probably get him tested for cushings as well.
scruffyponies
Well-Known Member
I think you have two options. Either back off and accept that whilst the loaner might not be up to your exacting standards, the horse is fine, and you are happy for him to live out his life there, or step in and take the horse back.
If you start raising these points you will come across as judgemental and controlling. You may end up with the horse back whether you want it or not.
If you start raising these points you will come across as judgemental and controlling. You may end up with the horse back whether you want it or not.
Gloi
Too little time, too much to read.
I don't think that expecting keeping vaccines and teeth up to date is exacting standards. I would be furious.
AandK
Well-Known Member
It’s not just one thing, it’s several. For me, the trust would have gone so I’d end the loan and collect the horse asap.
Sossigpoker
Well-Known Member
So expecting the horse to have his basic medical needs met on time is judgemental and controlling?
If this horse was mine he'd be back home already!
For a lot of horses doing the teeth annually isn't enough , mine needs doing every 6 months , so letting that go OVER 12 months alone is a welfare matter.
TheChestnutThing
Well-Known Member
Thank you everyone for your sound advice. She replied to me last night late and sent me an essay making me out to be a terrible hostile person who made her cry and feel inadequate for asking her to do those things. That she had booked a dentist but it wasn't the one I requested (so I said as per contract) and would phone vet today and get things sorted. My dentist has now confirmed that he has given her a date.
Not once in her essays to me did she every apologies or admit that she was wrong. It was all put on me. Which made me amused. I am also not the most sympathetic person so the comments that i made her cry (for requesting my horse had his teeth/worm/vacs/better bedding) made me WTF.
I will be keeping a much closer eye on the situation as I realize that I should have done this from the start.
Not once in her essays to me did she every apologies or admit that she was wrong. It was all put on me. Which made me amused. I am also not the most sympathetic person so the comments that i made her cry (for requesting my horse had his teeth/worm/vacs/better bedding) made me WTF.
I will be keeping a much closer eye on the situation as I realize that I should have done this from the start.
Sossigpoker
Well-Known Member
Is getting the horse back not an option ?
Someone with that attitude can't be trusted IMO.
Surbie
Well-Known Member
This. If they sorted it with appointments and you are otherwise happy or comfortable with them continuing then I would keep a very close eye on them.
Actually, just seen your post from a moment ago - that reply would be all I required to end the loan and get the horse back. She is right, she's inadequate.
fiwen30
Well-Known Member
Yikes. Requiring that YOUR horse should have it’s basic needs met is not being a terrible, hostile, big old meanie pants who hurts people’s feelings. If you raising these issues made the loaner feel ashamed or guilty, then good. If feeling these feelings made her cry, then that’s her problem to work out, and not your fault.
I’d be picking up and bringing the horse back as soon as possible. Not just because the loaner needed prompting, but because of that ‘nothing is my fault, and everyone is out to get me’ attitude. Couldn’t work with that.
Pegasus5531
Well-Known Member
I have two views on this. One would be that the horse seems content and happy and they appear to be changing things like tack in what they believe to be the horses best interests. The bedding wouldn't worry me unless you have specified that he needs a deep bed. The tack is also difficult as she has bought it from you she may see it as she can do what she wishes because she has paid for it whereas if you had sent tack with him (and you still owned it) you could argue she has no right to change it. However my second view on the whole thing would be that you don't sound content with the situation anymore, the trust is gone and I think it could potentially turn bitter if you are now suspicious of them and they feel they are being watched. Maybe best to bring the horse home and start fresh with someone else.
Fred66
Well-Known Member
When we loaned one out we took him so we knew where he was going, then visited a week later, then a fortnight later, then monthly then dropped to ad-hoc every 6 months or so.
AShetlandBitMeOnce
Well-Known Member
Her reaction would make me switch to taking back the horse, for sure.
Peglo
Well-Known Member
I didn’t want to judge her too harshly but after her reply to you I think she’s out of order.
TheChestnutThing
Well-Known Member
I would buy new tack...
TheChestnutThing
Well-Known Member
I am huge on bedding. I firmly believe in a deep bed, no matter what you use or how many rubber mats are put down. Especially in an older horse, and one who is rather disgusting at that. I specified all this. I hear you re the tack. Unfortunately it was sell it to her or risk her getting tack that didn't fit him, at least I knew that he went with excellent fitting tack and a saddle that suited him and that he found comfortable. She was very aware that he needed a micklem due to his fussy mouth and hate of poll pressure. She was also aware that this was a horse that had to be ridden with very very soft hands and very little ask. I personally show jumped him entirely bitless and it took me 6 months to find a bit to suit him as I know not everyone likes a bitless horse/can ride bitless, and I knew this would hinder me finding him a hacking loan. You are correct, the trust is gone and means that I will have to start doing bi-monthly checks. I want to give her a chance to rectify, under supervision, and if it is not/I sense mishaps then I will remove him. We are in the process of looking for a home with stables, so it would be easier to have the 2 boys and work a full time job.
TheChestnutThing
Well-Known Member
I did this....
Annagain
Well-Known Member
While I totally understand you wanting him back, it doesn't sound like your setup is entirely suitable either as he was unhappy on your busy competition yard. I'd treat this as a final warning situation, keep a close eye on him in future and take him back if there's anything you're not happy with. In the meantime, could you do some research for some local yards that would be suitable if you do need to have him back.
I wouldn't worry too much about bedding. My old boy's stable is huge and it's fully rubber matted He has a very decent thickness of bedding on the back third (about 12'x 8'), a thinner layer on the next 3-4' and just rubber mats on the front half. From the flat poo in the morning, it's obvious he lies down all over the stable, bedding or no bedding. He's 28 and a bit stiff in the mornings but better than most his age and I'm sure that's more from not moving than lying on rubber mats with no bed.
I wouldn't worry too much about bedding. My old boy's stable is huge and it's fully rubber matted He has a very decent thickness of bedding on the back third (about 12'x 8'), a thinner layer on the next 3-4' and just rubber mats on the front half. From the flat poo in the morning, it's obvious he lies down all over the stable, bedding or no bedding. He's 28 and a bit stiff in the mornings but better than most his age and I'm sure that's more from not moving than lying on rubber mats with no bed.
Tiddlypom
Carries on creakily
The loaner has now shown their true colours.
Best get ready to have him back very soon, this arrangement is no longer going to work.
Best get ready to have him back very soon, this arrangement is no longer going to work.
TheChestnutThing
Well-Known Member
Thanks for your input. By unhappy, I mean the hacking wasn't suited to him as he likes long romantic walks and not schooling. But I can make a plan to truck him out. However best case would be to only have him back when we find our property as I don't like to move and move and move. As for the bedding, it's my preference and as my horse, it was something that was stipulated. But this is a minor complaint and something I just picked up.
Fred66
Well-Known Member
We eventually gave notice on ours too, they loved him but weren’t riding regularly enough and we were concerned if we didn’t remove him he would have to be permanently retired if he did come back (he was 21 and being hacked out about once a month) which if we’d left it much longer would have made it unfair to try and bring him back into work. We gave them the option to increase his work and get him fitter or we would have him back, they also got funny with us. Shame really as we said she could still come and ride him and that we would be happy for her to go on fun rides etc (just let us know and we’d take him with us or they could collect) but she basically stopped talking to us.
He is now 26 going on 6 and still enjoys hacking out and being a total Houdini where his field is concerned !!
EDIT an in face conversation might be more productive as the written word whilst accurate can be misleading in tone. It’s easy to read something as critical and then react defensively where a conversation can be more nuanced
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fidleyspromise
Well-Known Member
I loan a horse although it ends next month. I was the one that pestered for when vaccinations were due and it resulted in horse being overdue. I was told specific supplements she was to have (which she has), specific timescales for hooves trimming which I've kept to.
This girl has allowed vaccinations/teeth be so overdue and then when it was brought up as a concern to be so rude and disrespectful.
If it was me I'd take horse back and know that he's getting the level of care I expect. Better to have a couple short moves than to be stressing a out what else is/isn't being done.
This girl has allowed vaccinations/teeth be so overdue and then when it was brought up as a concern to be so rude and disrespectful.
If it was me I'd take horse back and know that he's getting the level of care I expect. Better to have a couple short moves than to be stressing a out what else is/isn't being done.
TheChestnutThing
Well-Known Member
This is actually what worries me and what I was saying to a friend today, she hacks 2-3 times a week on a loose rein (he is the type that if he can avoid using his body he will), and the topline disintegration (not exactly the right word), has been so noticeable, as has the loss of muscle on his bum. I also found out this past weekend that she didn't canter him at all for the first 4 months of having him as she was scared (he is a let me go fast type when cantering). To try and bring him back into proper work when he comes back (he would become my mom's horse and she would like to do some basic schooling on hacks, a little showing and some long romantic hacks), would take a long time due to his age...and therfore like you, I would feel it unfair. He is only on a hack loan, but at the same time, you can keep a horse in form just from hacking.
TheChestnutThing
Well-Known Member
Sounds like you are a fantastic loaner!
Red-1
I used to be decisive, now I'm not so sure...
See, now that would have blown it out of the water for me. I would drive over tomorrow, terminate the loan and bring him back.
I initially would have given her a chance, if having him there suited you, but with the additional things and checks. That would have been if she respected you and had worked with you to resolve the issues.
She has now made it so the relationship between you and her will no longer work. I wouldn't even give her notice overnight as she is no longer trustworthy, IMO.
Of course, the tack is now hers. She may chose to sell it back to you (it would be decent of you to offer so she doesn't lose out- and you need it anyway), or you could simply buy some more.
ester
Not slacking multitasking
Even more appalled at her response. It’s a privilege to have full care of someone else’s horse whatever the circumstances.
ponynutz
Well-Known Member
Ours have a very thin bed on rubber matting and are stabled overnight. Admittedly I'm not happy about it but it hasn't killed them.
Other problems are a bit of a red flag though. As others - he's your horse, if you're not happy you get final say but maybe talk to them and give another chance.
Other problems are a bit of a red flag though. As others - he's your horse, if you're not happy you get final say but maybe talk to them and give another chance.
Goldenstar
Well-Known Member
I would get him back five months late with vaccinations is not good enough .
Tracking_up
Well-Known Member
Late vaccinations isn't great, but with an older horse who has a low key lifestyle, I personally don't think it's earthshattering, if that were an owner's decision.
But not to provide the appropriate level of care for a horse, entrusted to a loaner, then no, that's not good enough and shows a lack of respect to both owner and horse. Not least, it will result in higher costs to the loaner to restart the appropriate vaccinations! (and I'd be cross at my older horse having to have a higher dosage of vaccinations than it normally would get, had the vaccinations been maintained).
Do we know what the worming routine is? I'd be as/more worried that the loaner is skimping on those protocols....
But not to provide the appropriate level of care for a horse, entrusted to a loaner, then no, that's not good enough and shows a lack of respect to both owner and horse. Not least, it will result in higher costs to the loaner to restart the appropriate vaccinations! (and I'd be cross at my older horse having to have a higher dosage of vaccinations than it normally would get, had the vaccinations been maintained).
Do we know what the worming routine is? I'd be as/more worried that the loaner is skimping on those protocols....