Loaning and sharing expectations in different countries

[Caol Ila]

The thread on the price of a share got me thinking, but I thought I'd start a new one rather than hijack hers.

At the start of the winter, I put out some feelers on my personal Facebook page to see if anyone I knew would be up for a 2/3 day per week share on Fin. No one came out of the woodwork, and because I didn't feel desperate enough to advertise him to randoms and then worry about all the stress and hassle of sifting through people, I just slogged on with maintaining the two horses in full work on my own. That seemed easier. But that's not the point. The share would have asked for maybe £20 per week + stable duties. The usual. Our yard has excellent facilities and brilliant hacking and is close to Glasgow.

A few friends of mine, people who I went to uni with on the East Coast of the US and who are still there, jumped onto my post, full steam ahead, and said I was being totally batsh*t crazy and unreasonable to expect a sharer on a horse like Fin. He schools fine these days, but isn't exceptionally educated -- doesn't go in a beautiful outline (yet...I'm working on it) and I haven't bothered training him to jump. He hacks brilliantly in company. He's also a nice guy to just be around. They said I should be paying someone to ride him. I explained, "I don't want or expect a trainer. I just want someone competent enough (and I myself am only competent...not brilliant) to give him some exercise and give me a break from dealing with two horses seven days per week."

One uni friend, who lost her own horse to EPM a few years ago and now rides other people's, said, "I wouldn't expect to pay to ride a horse like that or do stable chores. I get paid to ride greenies, or I ride people's upper level horses for free when they want them excercised." She is, admittedly, a much better rider than me. That's nice for her.

Another friend then replied, "My young horse is only(!) jumping 3'6 (110cm in UK money) and schooling 2nd Level Dressage (roughly sorta Medium, for all you UK folks), and I wouldn't even think of asking someone to pay me to ride her. I would only ever pay someone to exercise her."

I may have written, "LOL, I think you guys in the DC Metro area must have much higher class of horse and rider than we do."

They also wrote that it was even crazier to expect a financial contribution and stable duties. I explained that DIY is incredibly common in the UK, far more prevalent than in the US, so it's pretty normal for sharers to do both. A full livery share just costs more.

Dunno...Just got me thinking about expectations because I didn't expect that response to my rambling post about a sharer. I haven't spent time on the East Coast since 2005.

 

[HorseMaid]

I think it depends on what both parties are getting out of it. I have a really nice lady who comes and rides my mare every Tuesday and has done for about 2 years. I wouldn't say it's a share as such, because she only comes on that day, and I suppose the alternative would be that she went for a hack at a local riding school.

This lady is a far superior rider to me, used to event when she was younger, is a bit old school, and very kind, firm but fair and my mare goes beautifully for her (they only hack). For this arrangement, which benefits me, I don't actually expect any payment at all, although my "sharer" does bung me some money towards shoes once a month. She does the yard jobs on the day she comes.

I would expect more if the arrangement was different - for someone coming 2/3 days a week who wanted all the perks of horse ownership with none of the cost or responsibility, yes I'd be charging at least £20 a week. Still cheaper than a riding school.

 

[Caol Ila]

Yes, it can all depend on what suits everyone.

I had a sharer for my old horse when she was at a yard that was 40 minutes away, and I didn't want to drive there six days per week. I didn't ask her to pay anything. But she was a friend who'd shared other horses at the yard, and we'd hacked a lot together. She ended up being the person who rode my horse when I was out of town, and then it kind of organically morphed into a share.

 

[Abacus]

Agreed, as long as both people benefit more than they put in, it can work and often does. There are good riders who would expect to be paid for improving a horse. And plenty of average competent riders who don't want to the full cost of their own but want to ride and be with horses. It's cheaper to share (and you get the relationship aspect) than to go to a riding school. The downside is that you have to be reliable and mature,you can't just book when you feel like it. I can only comment on this country but here, it is increasingly expensive to keep a horse, and on DIY it is time and labour consuming. That means that both sides of a share can benefit from shared costs and effort. Perhaps it is cheaper elsewhere so not such a consideration for the owner (or the sharer who may be more easily able to afford their own).

 

[SEL]

I spent a lot of my early 30s riding / sharing other people's horses without paying anything. I was too busy with work to be able to have one of my own but I was a competent enough rider that I could get on many horses and ensured they were schooled nicely and owners could trust I wasn't going to blatt around unsuitable ground etc. All of them were either young or a bit silly / hot. I did do stable jobs such as mucking out, feeding etc to give the owner a night off.

When the final one had some lameness issues and went back to his owners I was asked if I wanted the ride on a known nutcase for just £20 a week and I'm afraid I laughed at her. I felt sorry for the lady because she'd just had a baby and was desperate for some help but that horse had run off home with her numerous times and I wasn't going to pay for the privilege of trying to teach it some manners. One of the other owners on the yard jumped at the chance of getting me onto her youngster instead and didn't want a penny - just two nights in front of the TV instead of mucking out.

So I think it depends really. If I got a responsible rider in for any of mine then I'd appreciate a barrow of poo from the field or putting them all to bed for the night over £20. Personal choice though because sometimes money changing hands does mean people turn up rather than dropping you in it at short notice.

 

[Cloball]

My expectations of sharing are very low after being lied to about the safety of one horse and my near death bolting experience. To be fair that was free my only criteria are sane horse same owner you'd be surprised how difficult that would be. Plus 20 is less than a lesson so you're saving money and getting fitter with the yard chores in my opinion.

I would have bitten your hand off if I'd still been in Glasgow not that youd probably want me

 

[criso]

Does it also depend on riding opportunities and costs to keep a horse in different countries.

The cost of a monthly share riding 2 or 3 times a week might get me 2x lessons or 2 X hacks in a riding school with no guarantee of wwll behaved well schooled horses or high quality instruction.

I can add in regular private lessons with an instructor of my choice quite economically rather than a working pupil with 5 other people.

Then keeping a horse is expensive especially if your job means you can't go up every day never mind twice a day.

So for a rider in the UK, sharing is an attractive prospect for the rider who has outgrown the riding school but isn't in a position to own their own.

If the rider in question is very experienced then a green horse might be an interesting option.

I know people say that if the rider is that experienced you should pay them, but offering this as a service requires commitment and raises insurance and liability that a hobby rider may not want to get into

 

[SpeedyPony]

I'd personally feel a little bit cheeky asking for both financial contribution and yard work for a horse that was only really able to hack, but I also wouldn't expect to be paying them to ride either! I think yard duties for a ride is a fair exchange and if the opportunity to go to clinics/shows/funrides etc was on the table, then a financial contribution would be well justified.

 

[ycbm]

Yet strangely, I understand that leasing (paying to borrow) very ordinary horses is normal in the US. Tell your friends to think of it as a "part lease".

 

[Kirstd33]

Loaning/sharing varies so much in my opinion and experience, but as long as both parties gain something from the arrangement I guess anything goes?
As I put on the other thread my teenage daughter "loans" our Yard owners pony 1 day a weekend, as she was coming off riding school ponies and wasn't progressing her riding very much and also wanted to learn more about the care side of things and building a bond with a pony. We weren't in a position then to buy our own so it worked beautifully for daughter and owner who got a "day off" from riding and all jobs too. Now we own our coblet, daughter has continued to loan the pony so we can ride together 1 day a week which is lovely, we continue to pay a nominal £15/week now which i don't mind at all. In her school hols she can ride him as much as she likes within reason too.
Predominantly we just hack both our ponies, as we're not competitive so its our together and relaxation time, although daughter is starting to do some low level jumping clinics which shes enjoying too.

 

[Titchy Pony]

I have shared in two different countries, but expectations vary wildly even within the same country.
I took my first share when I started uni, having had to sell my pony and being desperate for horse time but only able to afford one riding school lesson a week. This was in France and at the time I paid 45€ a month. The mare was field kept at home most of the year and the only expectation was that I'd feed her after riding, check water and give the owner a shout if anything was wrong. She went on full livery for three months every year but I still paid the same amount and I was let off paying when I was away over summer. I started riding twice a week and ended up riding nearly as much as I could manage (owner had two kids in the five years I was riding the horse). I got a second horse to ride one winter for nothing because a friend of my share's owner was having health issues and her horse was at the same stables as my share.
In the UK, I shared a pony that was a bit on the small side for his owner and not doing much. I didn't pay anything for him and again, just the expectation to feed him and shout out if there was problem. On that yard, I could probably have got the ride on two or three more horses / ponies if I'd had the time and inclination.
Back in France, I've had two riding school shares for half the price of the full livery and helping out on the yard. One of them is now my very own Little Madam. Both horses weren't actually riding school horse, but home bred, so though it was technically a share, I wasn't really sharing them with anyone and got to ride as much as I wanted.
I have however seen shares advertised that are more expensive than full livery in this area (they are a little way away on the coast) and you need to have your own saddle!
I've currently got a ride on Enormosaurus at the riding school. She is a privately owned horse whose owner doesn't ride. He pays for her livery and work by the riding school owner and I have permission to rode and hopefully compete her. This works for all of us. The owner gets his horse exercised and perhaps some value added, my riding instructor has one less horse to exercise some days and I get to ride a horse with a potential that I could never afford (though she is quirky) while my own is going on maternity leave.

When looking for a share, I sort through by budget, then try to select the owner as much as the horse. When first looking, I didn't even bother replying to any adverts where the owner came across as too controlling/untrusting/precious about their horse. Many just didn't seem like they really wanted to share (and I get that, but it doesn't make for a satisfying share), they just probably needed the money.

 

[Ambers Echo]

Almost every in-work horse on the yard I am on has a hacking sharer. The hacking is so good and it keeps all the horses fit all year round. No-one struggles to find sharers for sane hacking horses.

 

[Apercrumbie]

From what I understand, "leasing" a horse is quite common in the US. They can be very expensive, so I imagine you would only lease a horse that was competing at a certain level. Perhaps sharing just isn't really a thing there?

 

[Tarragon]

I have never officially "shared" a horse, but I have exercised lots for people who either didn't have the time to hack, or just didn't like hacking! No money changed hands. I got to ride and they got their horse exercised. A win-win relationship I think. It was at its best when I exercised hunters at a hunter livery yard, and the horses would be tacked up and ready to ride as soon as I got there and whisked off me when I got back from a ride and I would be given a second one. Another one was when someone broke their leg and needed help keeping their horses fit for a few weeks.

 

[criso]

I'd personally feel a little bit cheeky asking for both financial contribution and yard work for a horse that was only really able to hack, but I also wouldn't expect to be paying them to ride either! I think yard duties for a ride is a fair exchange and if the opportunity to go to clinics/shows/funrides etc was on the table, then a financial contribution would be well justified.

I had a sharer at one point who wanted to hack. She had regular lessons at a riding school but it didn't have any hacking and that's what she wanted. She had no interest in going in the school. So for £10 a ride she got to explore lovely hacking on a beautifully mannered tb who looked after her and just sighed in exasperation if horses around him misbehaved. I got my horse exercised when I couldn't get up or was travelling for work.

 

[Cloball]

I think a lot of people in the UK I think ask for a bit of money to weed out those that aren't committed whether it actually ends up getting paid regularly or as a contribution to shoes etc. I think depends on the relationship you develop. That is my impression anyway.

 

[maya2008]

I think a lot of people in the UK I think ask for a bit of money to weed out those that aren't committed whether it actually ends up getting paid regularly or as a contribution to shoes etc. I think depends on the relationship you develop. That is my impression anyway.

In my experience, people who have a share for free/a nominal fee, just don’t turn up regularly. They have nothing to lose by staying home.

 

[MuddyMonster]

I've paid for some shares and not for others in the past, pre owning my own, it's just depended on the horse and the set up.

I think if I went back to sharing I'd rather pay extra to ride without chores personally but everyone is different.

I can understand their point of paying someone else to ride, if the owner was wanting the horse bought on or tackle an issue that's not been cracked but it doesn't sound like the case here.

I wouldn't give it too much thought, the beauty of the flexibility of sharing is there is an agreement to suit all expectations.

 

[teapot]

I think a lot depends on the quality of horse - people asking sharers to pay to ride (school, bring on, educate) a badly schooled horse, a thug, lame, broken, borderline nutjob, I think borders on taking the mic. If you don't have the time to sort the issue yourself, pay someone to do so. Please have your own insurance translates as hahaha you're gonna need it too

Also a view that probably some would disagree with but I really struggle with adverts that are blatantly looking for someone to cover the bills and jobs, while the owner still gets all the perks. Don't use and abuse the goodwill of someone who can't afford their own horse, to fund your (not you OP!) own hobby.


However, asking someone to pay to keep a well schooled horse fit and supple etc, or to enjoy the perks of having a true schoolmaster/100% safe but enjoyable hack is something quite quite different. I view that as a good deal given the equivelent at my RS would be over £100 a ride.

 

[Surbie]

I'd personally feel a little bit cheeky asking for both financial contribution and yard work for a horse that was only really able to hack, but I also wouldn't expect to be paying them to ride either! I think yard duties for a ride is a fair exchange and if the opportunity to go to clinics/shows/funrides etc was on the table, then a financial contribution would be well justified.

If I didn't have my horse, a safe hack with decent off-road routes is exactly what I would be looking for.

 

[Palindrome]

If it suits you and it suits the sharer, it's no one else's business really.

 

[ThreeFurs]

I think it depends on what both parties are getting out of it. I have a really nice lady who comes and rides my mare every Tuesday and has done for about 2 years. I wouldn't say it's a share as such, because she only comes on that day, and I suppose the alternative would be that she went for a hack at a local riding school.

This lady is a far superior rider to me, used to event when she was younger, is a bit old school, and very kind, firm but fair and my mare goes beautifully for her (they only hack). For this arrangement, which benefits me, I don't actually expect any payment at all, although my "sharer" does bung me some money towards shoes once a month. She does the yard jobs on the day she comes.

I would expect more if the arrangement was different - for someone coming 2/3 days a week who wanted all the perks of horse ownership with none of the cost or responsibility, yes I'd be charging at least £20 a week. Still cheaper than a riding school.

I've got a similar arrangement that's been going on for nearly 2 years; my corporate horse friend has a 15 y o Elementary level educated dressage Clydie x, and a young Friesian/Wb.

I ride the Clydie Wednesdays and sometimes Fridays. She and her husband then hack them out on weekends. I also lesson on the Clydie with her long term coach, and we take them both out together to clinics. Its more than just exercise, its also schooling.

Works well, no money changes hands; and I get to ride ... as my own old chap is retired and I can't afford a second one on the payroll atm.

 

[lynz88]

From what I understand, "leasing" a horse is quite common in the US. They can be very expensive, so I imagine you would only lease a horse that was competing at a certain level. Perhaps sharing just isn't really a thing there?

Free lease and leasing are very common. I had mine on a free lease while over here for the first 2 years as I was on the commonwealth 2 year visa scheme and didn't know where I would end up. Part boarding (sharing) is common as well but I had never seen a part board deal where the part boarder had to do barn duties. It just didn't exist as a concept.

 

[KEK]

This is a pertinent thread for me, as I am having to think of a part lease/share for my connemara. He is rising 8, and has been professionally schooled since he was started. I have paid for him to be ridden 2-3/week by the pro, and I do a lesson /week with her as well. I try and hack him round the block once/week (no hacking here without boxing out) but its not enough exercise for him and the vet has suggested he needs riding everyday. He's a really nice, well educated, sane and genuine/not spooky boy. The pro has suggested a SJ kid she teaches, who has outgrown her pony, ride him twice/week and take him into to shows pony club etc on the weekend (as I work and compete the dogs). I've said no financial contribution except they will insure incl loss of use.
I'm feeling not sure about it, she tries him on Monday. Guess will see how it goes..

 

[ThreeFurs]

I've got a similar arrangement that's been going on for nearly 2 years; my corporate horse friend has a 15 y o Elementary level educated dressage Clydie x, and a young Friesian/Wb.

I ride the Clydie Wednesdays and sometimes Fridays. She and her husband then hack them out on weekends. I also lesson on the Clydie with her long term coach, and we take them both out together to clinics. Its more than just exercise, its also schooling.

Works well, no money changes hands; and I get to ride ... as my own old chap is retired and I can't afford a second one on the payroll atm.

For what its worth, I was less than keen when another woman, who I don't know [but who is really nice], approached me with the possibly of 'exercising' her current paddock ornament, an all rounder whose actually sweet and willing, twice a week with potential to take him out on weekends to riding club. I met him rode him for her, it went well, but I kind of felt one on property free loan horse was enough; and their quite a distance away from each other, and I still have duties of care to my own senior horse.

 

[criso]

This is a pertinent thread for me, as I am having to think of a part lease/share for my connemara. He is rising 8, and has been professionally schooled since he was started. I have paid for him to be ridden 2-3/week by the pro, and I do a lesson /week with her as well. I try and hack him round the block once/week (no hacking here without boxing out) but its not enough exercise for him and the vet has suggested he needs riding everyday. He's a really nice, well educated, sane and genuine/not spooky boy. The pro has suggested a SJ kid she teaches, who has outgrown her pony, ride him twice/week and take him into to shows pony club etc on the weekend (as I work and compete the dogs). I've said no financial contribution except they will insure incl loss of use.
I'm feeling not sure about it, she tries him on Monday. Guess will see how it goes..

I would think carefully about this option. I can see the sharer taking over and what you want being secondary in this scenario. Is going out jumping every weekend what you had planned for your horse if someone else hadn't suggested it.

Don't feel you have to take the first option that comes along, your horse sounds lovely and I'm sure there will be lots of potential sharers.

I would also definitely be charging a reasonable fee as the show jumping kid is getting a competition horse for free.

Lastly depending on the age of the child, will there be an adult around when they visit?

 

[honetpot]

We had two adult sharers for my then teeanage daughters horse, because she had more school work. It was a good DIY livery yard, I did the mucking out in the morning, did hay and feed, all they had to do was bring him in and ride. They were both competant, I didn't have to do the evening slot, so they were doing me favour so they didn't pay for anything.
I think some people always think they are going to 'improve' your horse, when really all you want it is excercised and perhaps a bit of relief, in reality there are very few people IME who have a realistic idea of their competance.
The Connemara, I ring round some of the Connemare show producers who do workers etc, someone may take it to shows for you, or if close enough just hack it out, the last thing I would want is a SJ kid on a very expensive pony.

 

[TheHairyOne]

I think it very much depends on all parties individual circumstances. My sister and I have too many horses between us, BUT it gets us our own fields and ability to manage them at we like at livery which is a very useful thing to have. We like them to be busy and have a bit more attention and exercise.

We have had anything from non paying who schooled on a young kids pony we got free but are too tall to ride, to his current sharers who are pretty inexperienced and therefore are not left totally to it and are charged appropriately, to the older lady who does dressage with an older horse who is teaching her all the time and is having an amazing time doing 3/4 days a week (with very limited jobs).

I think reasonable cost also somewhat depends on area. The cheapest place around here I would be happyish to send people to is £58 for an hours group lesson for an adult. None of our sharers have paid the equivalent of 4 shared lessons a month for the use of a horse to do within reason what they like when they like!

 

[Orangehorse]

I ride once a week on a very nice, well schooled horse that will not hack out on its own, not 100% safely anyway. So the owner wants it kept in work, but doesn't want to take it out on her own. So I get to ride a very nice horse in good hacking country. But she has a few other people who also ride out with her on other days, and she will also pay someone if necessary to ride out with her on this particular horse.

So I am saving her money as she doesn't need to pay me, I am going out on a nice horse that I don't have to pay for (otherwise is would be £40.00 for hacking at the local riding school, which is good and I go there sometimes). I don't make a financial contribution, I don't do any yard chores as she has someone to help with the stables. I do give her an occasional horsey present if I think there is something she needs and gave her a couple of bottles of good wine at Christmas, and I am thinking I should get her something again soon.

I didn't want to look for a share. I wouldn't want to commit to having to go so many times a week for chores and riding. In that sort of situation I think a small financial contribution would be OK, but not a lot.

 

[KEK]

I would think carefully about this option. I can see the sharer taking over and what you want being secondary in this scenario. Is going out jumping every weekend what you had planned for your horse if someone else hadn't suggested it.

Don't feel you have to take the first option that comes along, your horse sounds lovely and I'm sure there will be lots of potential sharers.

I would also definitely be charging a reasonable fee as the show jumping kid is getting a competition horse for free.

Lastly depending on the age of the child, will there be an adult around when they visit?

Yeah I'm really feeling not sure about it. The kid is 12, and yes her mother would be around, and her lesson on him would be the same pro who rides him/teaches me. He's been out competing and winning with the pro at the 60/70cm height but fairly lightly. And no I'm not at all sure I want him jumping that much, that's probably my biggest concern.
My problem is I don't have any facilities, he's kept at home and all his work is done next door in the neighbours /pros arena. And we don't have hacking without boxing (and that is very limited, 1 bridle trail, perth is pretty crap for hacking). So I don't feel like I can advertise for a share unless I moved him to a livery yard or something. Not sure what to do.