Loaning dilemma

[IWantAShetland]

Hi everyone, I have a dilemma and it would be good to hear a few horsey perspectives on the situation (my family arnt horsey, they just don't understand the ways of the horsey world ?)

I have a horse, shes 12 and ive owned her about 8 years (well call her P). Shes been on loan, to someone who adores her for about 4 years. Just before P went on loan I had a change in circumstances which meant I was unable to care for her so I was paying some one to look after her, it turned out they weren't doing anything and when I was able to finally go see P, she was quite thin and hadn't had the farrier out (despite me paying for feed and the farier). Her current loaner is an acquaintance who at the time was looking for a horse like P was before she was abandoned by the self employed groom I had been paying and said they were willing to spend a few weeks getting her back to health.
For three years the loan worked out well for everyone involved, though every now and again Ps loaner would consider sending her back, before changing their mind, though this wasnt an issue as I was in a position to take her back at the drop of a hat.
Last year her loaner had a change in circumstances which meant I was expecting her back, but her loaner has found a sharer meaning they are able to keep her. Over the last year Ps behavioral has deteriorated significantly, shes rude and bolshy on the ground and is bad to hack alone now.
A combination of Ill health, family circumstance, time and finances mean as of September I will be in no position to take P back again if her loaner cant have her and my situation is unlikely to change anytime soon.

This leaves me with the dilemma of what to do with P. I've suggested her loaner could buy her (at a massively reduced price, less that half her market value even before prices went crazy), but they dont want to do that.
They cant guarantee that they will be able to continue loaning her indeffinatley either. So my only option feels like to take her back whilst I can and sell her ASAP, but this feels a little mean when her loaner has invested a lot of their time and effort and clearly adores her.
Any other suggestions very much welcome!

 

[milliepops]

From what you've said I think selling the horse would be a good option. You say the loaner adores her but she's wanted to send her back several times during the loan period? she doesn't sound THAT committed to your horse.

If you're going to be unable to take her back from the autumn, what would happen if she has another change of heart and wanted to send her back then? I think by offering her the horse to buy first you have covered the issue as far as she is concerned - if she doesn't want to buy her then I'd try and find someone who does so that you aren't in the position where you get the horse returned and you have nowhere to keep her.

As there seems to be a bit of retraining needed I think I would try and end the loan asap and get on top of the behaviour before you advertise.

 

[ycbm]

What she said ^^^^
.

 

[IWantAShetland]

Her loaner is old, close to retiring from riding really and really wants to keep P as despite the behaviour problems which are arising, she really is safe as houses. I think the ages issue is the reason her loaner won't commit to buying.

If I was to take P back ASAP it would hopefully leave me with enough time to try improve her behavior and sell her whilst I still have the time and money available, but it feels a little mean demanding her back from her loaner after 4 years, just to sell her on.
But come September if her loaner ends the arrangement I'll be really up sh*t creek, i won't have the time for P at all and at best she will become an expensive field ornament until my situation changes, if ever, and I'm aware the older she gets and the less she does, the harder she will be to sell.

 

[SpotsandBays]

I agree with the above! Although it may feel mean to the loaner, you can’t risk the fact that P may have to come back to you when you are unable to look after her. So P will be the one to suffer in the long run. Also again, if the loaner truly wanted her then she would purchase her.

 

[milliepops]

I have loaned horses before and tbh it's the risk you run having a loan horse and it was always in the back of my mind that the owner might want the horse back.
so although you might feel bad, it's the nature of the beast and your loaner must be naive if she did not think this might happen one day, particularly with the back and forth over not keeping her.
You've offered her a low price and she has declined so... i'm not sure there is much more you need to do, what you do need to do is look after your own circumstances and make sure your horse has a secure home.

 

[LaurenBay]

I would just me honest with your loaner, give her a call and explain your worries.

 

[FestiveFuzz]

I think as sad as it is, you have to think of what is best for P and that would be to have her back now so you can work on the issues that have arisen and have a good chance of selling her on to a nice home before your own circumstances change. Having been in your loaners shoes, I leapt at the chance to buy my boy (and only hadn't asked sooner as I didn't want to upset her or rock the apple cart). If your loaner can't or won't buy her I think it's completely fair to say sadly your circumstances have changed and you need to sell.

 

[TreeDog]

Does the loaner know that you are thinking of taking her back to sell on? As they may be hopping by saying they don't want to buy you will let them keep loaning and they won't have to pay up extra money. If the money is the issue for them and they would be happy to take ownership for a nominal £1, then it's up to you if you'd rather horse stays where she is or whether you need the money, which would be very understandable by the sounds of your situation.

 

[ihatework]

I don’t think it’s mean to take her back. Ultimately a loan is a loan, it goes both ways.

But I would offer her for sale to them for £1 before taking her back.

 

[meleeka]

I think you should talk to the loaner. Explain that your circumstances are changing which means it’s not possible for you to have the responsibility for P. The choice is hers then. She can buy her or return her. Just because she loans P, it doesn’t mean you have to be a safety cushion forever. I’d probably ask a nominal fee, say £200 as she’s cared for her for so long.

 

[milliepops]

it's nice that people would consider basically gifting the horse to the loaner, but she's indicated that she might not be able to keep the horse in the long term anyway (last para of OP), and has also asked to terminate the agreement multiple times in the last few years. That would be a concern for me, if I was going to gift a horse to someone I'd want to be fairly confident that it was a secure long term home rather than something that had been at risk of falling through.

I've been gifted 2, i know it can work well so it's not a bad idea in principle but personally i wouldn't gift one of mine in this situation from what OP has said.

 

[ihatework]

I would, if they would accept.

I think selling a horse with underlying issues to a completely new home poses bigger risk of the horse getting moved on or treated badly.

Ideally though I’d just leave the horse on loan and have a back up plan but given we don’t know their circumstances that might not be possible.

 

[emilylou]

I'd have her back and retrain then sell on. She is your horse, and its up to you to ensure her future and this is the best way of doing it.
If the loaners commitment is poor it is not worth the risk, however long they have had her.

 

[CanteringCarrot]

You gotta do what you gotta do. I would be upfront and honest with the loaner as to what your plan is and why. It is not as if you are being greedy, mean, or selfish, you are genuinly trying not to set yourself up for a disaster.

 

[IWantAShetland]

Her loaner is in their 70's and after an injury last year cant see them selves riding much longer. They've said numourous times P is too good for what they want now (16.1 all rounder, was safe as houses with decent manners and competitive- though not world beating, up to about 1m).
They've said repeatedly they dont want to buy her, I've said I would accept £500 for her, which I think is very cheap for her. However they don't really want to give her up either.

I think I'm going to call them this evening and explain this is their final chance to own her themselves or she will have to be sold. You've all confirmed there is no other solution really

 

[Pippity]

I would, if they would accept.

I think selling a horse with underlying issues to a completely new home poses bigger risk of the horse getting moved on or treated badly.

Ideally though I’d just leave the horse on loan and have a back up plan but given we don’t know their circumstances that might not be possible.

It doesn't sound like underlying issues to me. It just sounds like she's been allowed to get away with some things she shouldn't, possibly by the sharer as the behaviour started around that point.

There are never guarantees, but a 12yo 16.1hh safe all-rounder is likely to end up in a decent home.

 

[ihatework]

Her loaner is in their 70's and after an injury last year cant see them selves riding much longer. They've said numourous times P is too good for what they want now (16.1 all rounder, was safe as houses with decent manners and competitive- though not world beating, up to about 1m).
They've said repeatedly they dont want to buy her, I've said I would accept £500 for her, which I think is very cheap for her. However they don't really want to give her up either.

I think I'm going to call them this evening and explain this is their final chance to own her themselves or she will have to be sold. You've all confirmed there is no other solution really

Well that paints a different picture from rude & bolshy and won’t hack alone!! And would make me retract my post and say yes sell elsewhere. Assuming that is an accurate description of a useful allrounder

TBH I’d have removed a good horse from a loan home the minute things were on the downward spiral. Hopefully a year of bad behaviour can be corrected in a month

 

[MiJodsR2BlinkinTite]

So this pony has been on loan and her behaviour has been allowed to deteriorate to the extent that she is now unsellable.

I wouldn't be best pleased TBH. It would be my expectation that if I put a pony on loan to someone, that they would keep the pony up to scratch as far as behaviour is concerned and NOT to let it obviously get away with stuff like this!

I personally don't feel you owe the loaners anything! End of.

My inclination would be to get the pony back asap and do whatever remedial work is needed, and then either consider selling it; OR perhaps there is another loaner out there who would take the pony on?

I certainly don't think you should be emotionally-blackmailed into selling "P" or even "donating-for-a-pound" to the loaners! No way. They have after all allowed this pony's behaviour to worsen significantly during the loan period.

I do not think you should feel sorry for them or feel any tug at your heartstrings!

I would get the pony back asap, do whatever remedial needs to be done (or if you decide to sell "P" on then ask a professional to do the rehab and then sell-on from their yard). OR seek another loaner who is proficient enough to keep any behavioural issues in check and who would appreciate the chance.

 

[southerncomfort]

it's nice that people would consider basically gifting the horse to the loaner, but she's indicated that she might not be able to keep the horse in the long term anyway (last para of OP), and has also asked to terminate the agreement multiple times in the last few years. That would be a concern for me, if I was going to gift a horse to someone I'd want to be fairly confident that it was a secure long term home rather than something that had been at risk of falling through.

I've been gifted 2, i know it can work well so it's not a bad idea in principle but personally i wouldn't gift one of mine in this situation from what OP has said.

I agree with this, and if the horse's behaviour is deteriorating, I'd be concerned about why that is and what is going wrong.

I wouldn't sell to the loaner personally. I'd take the horse back and think about selling on after a bit of retraining.

 

[IWantAShetland]

Her loaner let's her wander off to eat grass when she comes in from the field, P now feels entitled to make her own way in however she feels fit (shes not dangerous, just very rude and annoying and doesn't think twice about taking you off to eat grass). Shes been allowed to faff around whilst being tacked up aswell so shes a bit fidgety. She used to hack out perfect but now she can be spooky, I suspect she wants kicking on and telling to get a grip and she can be quite strong when jumping and doing anything fast. Just a few issues which need sorting so make sure she gets a good home. Her loaner has been very soft with her and really I should have put a stop to it a while ago.

 

[Meowy Catkin]

Go and arrange to get her ASAP.

The horse market might crash soon. I wouldn't faff about because of this.

 

[LaurenBay]

Her loaner let's her wander off to eat grass when she comes in from the field, P now feels entitled to make her own way in however she feels fit (shes not dangerous, just very rude and annoying and doesn't think twice about taking you off to eat grass). Shes been allowed to faff around whilst being tacked up aswell so shes a bit fidgety. She used to hack out perfect but now she can be spooky, I suspect she wants kicking on and telling to get a grip and she can be quite strong when jumping and doing anything fast. Just a few issues which need sorting so make sure she gets a good home. Her loaner has been very soft with her and really I should have put a stop to it a while ago.

Doesn't sound like any of the above will take too long to fix and remind her of her manners. Ring the loaner, tell them after September you will not be in a position to take P back, therefore you have no option but to end the loan now so that you have time to sell her on.

 

[Mikas-mom]

Speaking as a person who’s been searching for a long term loan horse for what feels like forever (my location seems to be putting most people off) I can tell you that P sounds like she would easily be someone’s ideal horse and I’m pretty certain you would find a genuine loaner for her if you didn’t want to sell.
I need a bigger horse (I’m five feet ten lol) and whilst there are bigger horses advertised they seem to be the ones in high demand.
like me, I’m pretty sure most genuine people searching for a loan horse won’t mind putting in some work to correct the issues that have been allowed to arise.
Good luck, I hope you find a solution that suits both you and P ?

 

[Micropony]

Completely agree with Milliepops. However nice a person your loaner is, your first responsibility here is to the horse, and IMO you shouldn't feel in any way guilty about doing what you need to do to secure her future as best you can.

 

[Valadictory]

I completely agree with MP.

 

[holeymoley]

What about the sharer? Could you offer her to them to buy?

 

[SatansLittleHelper]

Absolutely agree that getting the horse back and selling is the best option. She doesn't sound to have any big issues, just needs reminding of her manners. The quicker you sort this the more likely you are to sell. Don't leave it till the horse market crashes.

 

[Toby_Zaphod]

I haven't read all the posts on this matter but I would say sell the pony. The details the OP has outlined is the usual way a loaning goes. The loaner has the horse while it's well and can be ridden but when there is an issue with the horse, or with the finances of the loaner the horse is returned. The owner then must find livery & pay for vet bills for the horse etc. This is a reason why I keep my horses, they don't get loaned and I always know how they are, how they are fed & how they are being looked after. The personality & attitude of my horses is always the same because I know how they are treated. Never load your horse, sell it or keep it, even if you think you know who & where it's going to, there are too many issues that can arise.

 

[TheresaW]

I haven't read all the posts on this matter but I would say sell the pony. The details the OP has outlined is the usual way a loaning goes. The loaner has the horse while it's well and can be ridden but when there is an issue with the horse, or with the finances of the loaner the horse is returned. The owner then must find livery & pay for vet bills for the horse etc. This is a reason why I keep my horses, they don't get loaned and I always know how they are, how they are fed & how they are being looked after. The personality & attitude of my horses is always the same because I know how they are treated. Never load your horse, sell it or keep it, even if you think you know who & where it's going to, there are too many issues that can arise.

I think that is a little unfair. I have a loan companion. He isn’t a ridden companion to be fair, but he is treated exactly the same as my 2. Possibly a bit better if I’m honest. He had a small wound a few weeks back, that I wouldn’t have taken a second thought about if it had been one of mine, but I contacted his owner and said if she wanted me to get the vet to look, I would do.