_GG_
Well-Known Member
I don't support Rollkur either. In fact I abhor it and also have that page on my facebook.
Rollkur is...
"Flexion of the horse's neck achieved through aggressive force".
Anyone on here saying Armas is being ridden in rollkur is saying that the rider is "keeping" him there or "not allowing him not to be there".
Therefore, admitting by the posts that it cannot be Rollkur as defined by the FEI.
Armas is not being ridden in Rollkur. If anyone wants to challenge that, go right ahead, but please try first to understand what rollkur is and what this horse is doing and what the rider is doing.
Armas has learnt to o BTV...James doesn't know his history, so perhaps he has in the past been ridden in Rollkur and that is the basis of the issue...but that is wild speculation.
Actually, what you can see with this horse is that he, on the moment of a contact being taken up, even a light one, will duck BTV. It is the horse putting himself there, NOT the rider using "aggressive force" to pull him there as you will see in the many pictures on the facebook page.
As for the rider, no, she is not just giving him a loose rein when he does this as her plan is to keep a contact with his mouth in order to try and teach him to accept it and take it forward. Yes, she blocks him sometimes. In the first video I was quick to say that I didn't feel she was being fair to him. However, since then, she does reward, does does allow him forward when she feels that it is right to do so. We are not sat on the horse, but there are times where I see her block an attempt by the horse to stretch and I feel she is doing the right thing as the horse appears to be simply leaning, so should not be rewarded. When he settles and takes it forward, she now allows that and rewards. Baby steps, teaching him all the time to learn a new way of going.
Caledonia...i do really appreciate that you are so vehemently against rollkur as a training method and your passion to see it stop should be applauded by all.
What I will say though is when anyone is trying to make a point about a specific subject, it is very important to be armed with real examples.
If Armas was used as an example of Rollkur for instance, the argument against Rollkur would be lessened due to the fact that anyone who understands what the term means and how it is achieved will brush off the videos of Armas as just being a horse evading contact. This is important in the general movement against Rollkur as each time opposers use poor examples, it detracts from the very real suffering of the horses that are being subjected to the real thing.
I hope that makes sense. Rollkur is no joke, I would gladly lock up those who use it and throw away the key, but it is what it is...achieved through aggressive force....NOT what we are seeing with this horse.
Rollkur is...
"Flexion of the horse's neck achieved through aggressive force".
Anyone on here saying Armas is being ridden in rollkur is saying that the rider is "keeping" him there or "not allowing him not to be there".
Therefore, admitting by the posts that it cannot be Rollkur as defined by the FEI.
Armas is not being ridden in Rollkur. If anyone wants to challenge that, go right ahead, but please try first to understand what rollkur is and what this horse is doing and what the rider is doing.
Armas has learnt to o BTV...James doesn't know his history, so perhaps he has in the past been ridden in Rollkur and that is the basis of the issue...but that is wild speculation.
Actually, what you can see with this horse is that he, on the moment of a contact being taken up, even a light one, will duck BTV. It is the horse putting himself there, NOT the rider using "aggressive force" to pull him there as you will see in the many pictures on the facebook page.
As for the rider, no, she is not just giving him a loose rein when he does this as her plan is to keep a contact with his mouth in order to try and teach him to accept it and take it forward. Yes, she blocks him sometimes. In the first video I was quick to say that I didn't feel she was being fair to him. However, since then, she does reward, does does allow him forward when she feels that it is right to do so. We are not sat on the horse, but there are times where I see her block an attempt by the horse to stretch and I feel she is doing the right thing as the horse appears to be simply leaning, so should not be rewarded. When he settles and takes it forward, she now allows that and rewards. Baby steps, teaching him all the time to learn a new way of going.
Caledonia...i do really appreciate that you are so vehemently against rollkur as a training method and your passion to see it stop should be applauded by all.
What I will say though is when anyone is trying to make a point about a specific subject, it is very important to be armed with real examples.
If Armas was used as an example of Rollkur for instance, the argument against Rollkur would be lessened due to the fact that anyone who understands what the term means and how it is achieved will brush off the videos of Armas as just being a horse evading contact. This is important in the general movement against Rollkur as each time opposers use poor examples, it detracts from the very real suffering of the horses that are being subjected to the real thing.
I hope that makes sense. Rollkur is no joke, I would gladly lock up those who use it and throw away the key, but it is what it is...achieved through aggressive force....NOT what we are seeing with this horse.
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