Lottie! Am I overthinking this?

[Ambers Echo]

So I adore Lottie which is a good thing because she is a high maintenance diva. She is either completely fine with, midly unco-operative about or outraged at the suggestion of....

- Being caught
- Being led
- Being bridled
- Beung groomed
- Being plaited
- Having fly sptay on
- Being clipped
- Being tied up
- Being saddles
- Being girthed
- Being loaded.

It's 90% fine, 8% mild objection and the occasional total NO! But I have no idea why?

So we have : comes over to be caught, leads on a loose leadrope, drops head and opens mouth for bridling, stands still for saddling, self loads. The perfect horse.

Or we have - buggers off at the sight of me, head in rafters for bridling, swings quarters for saddling pulls backs and breaks twine, freaks at plaiting or clipping, won't load.

But not all at the same time. So we can have fine on all but one of those things. It would make more sense if she was just in a 'no' mood generally but she's not. She is selective in her objections and it's never the same things.

Last week everything was grand except loading - which was the first time she said 'nope' to that. And she has been fine again since then too for me but not for her sharer who was patiently wating for her to 'relax' as she is a super gentle, patient sharer. YO saw them and gave her a gentle poke on the bum with the smooth handle end of a broom and she jumped on. And has self loaded again since then. Sharer was upset at 'rushing' her but I think Lottie really was just taking the p really. It was a a 'nah not today' rather tnan a 'yikes I need time' kind of a no. I think.

Today everything was grand except for opening her mouth for the bit. So now I'm stressing about teeth!

The most common objection is girthing hence the eye watering expense of the freedom girth.

I have spent hours/weeks trying to work out how to keep her happy as I have always felt the deal with my horses is: they work hard for me and I make sure they are physically comfortable and mentally relaxed in the work. So I am forever asking mysel: Is she ulcery. In season. Sore back. Tack not right. Sore mouth.Teeth need doing. Scared of trailer. Sore skin. Scared of whatever ??????

I am driving mself mad. In the end I am coming to the conclusion that she is just overly dramatic and nothing really bothers her that much really. She is just EXTREMELY expressive. Once I am on baord she always behaves really well and she looks fantastic. Super shiny and well muscled. Any thoughts?

 

[milliepops]

As you mention your sharer... how consistent is she in her handling of lottie, compared with the way you handle her?

i.e. is there a chance that the two of you are differing in your approach to her that is causing uncertainty or inconsistencies on lottie's part? If she swings her bum at your sharer does she accept it, whereas you might tell lottie not to do that? So the horse is left to make up her reactions as she sees fit on each day rather than toeing the line?

 

[Annagain]

Are you sure there's no pattern to her behaviour? Could you keep a diary to see if anything is linked to weather / seasons / going to certain venue / doing a specific activity / your sharer handling her?

 

[Sheep]

Maybe worth keeping a diary to see if you identify any pattern? Could it be linked to her seasons?

 

[Sheep]

Are you sure there's no pattern to her behaviour? Could you keep a diary to see if anything is linked to weather / seasons / going to certain venue / doing a specific activity / your sharer handling her?

Jinx!

 

[Ambers Echo]

The only vague pattern I can see is that she is more co-operative towards the end of a block of work than she is after a rest day.
I think the loading may have been a seasons thing - not wanting to separate from her pals - as she was also calling that day.
I will add her demeanour/behaviour to the training diary I already keep and see if that sheds any light.
Sharer is very experienced and does not let her get away with anything. She's just gentle and patient in how she gets there.
x

 

[Upthecreek]

I used to have a mare very much like this. The only consistent thing about her was how inconsistent she was. It’s so frustrating when you think you’ve had a breakthrough and cracked a particular issue to find three days later you haven’t. It was quite wearing not knowing how she was going to react to very normal things on any given day. I hate to say it because it’s not what you will want to hear, but there was no solution, we just had to accept that’s how she was and remain calm and consistent in how we responded to her antics. I’d have sold her in a heartbeat if she hadn’t been such a cracking little eventer because she really was a pain in the arse at times for no apparent reason. She was worse when in season and regumate (I think that’s what it was called) did help, but she was never consistently easy to deal with.

 

[Ambers Echo]

I used to have a mare very much like this. The only consistent thing about her was how inconsistent she was. It’s so frustrating when you think you’ve had a breakthrough and cracked a particular issue to find three days later you haven’t. It was quite wearing not knowing how she was going to react to very normal things on any given day. I hate to say it because it’s not what you will want to hear, but there was no solution, we just had to accept that’s how she was and remain calm and consistent in how we responded to her antics. I’d have sold her in a heartbeat if she hadn’t been such a cracking little eventer because she really was a pain in the arse at times for no apparent reason. She was worse when in season and regumate (I think that’s what it was called) did help, but she was never consistently easy to deal with.

Actually I am really happy to hear this because I really don;t mind dealing with her - it's always a shortlived protest. I can happily to take her eventing on my own. She is generally pretty easy to manage. I just worry that there is something wrong but I have not understood what she is trying to tell me. So to hear that some mares are just plain awkward from time to time for no particular reason is reassuring.

 

[Alibear]

Amber is similar. I've done some work with an equine behaviourist around it. Some are season based/ or perhaps days after more demanding sessions etc., and then she's checking if she really has to. The answer is yes to the baseline ask, but I then back off on the level of intensity of work I'm asking that day etc. But she does still have to tie up, lead etc. But those days, I'll keep tie-up time to a minimum etc. I also don't make a big deal of it on those days. Just get the necessary done and move on.
Some of it is that she's a nice horse with good training, and she's just testing that training. She's picking up on me, not being clear or confident. So she's seeing if she can lessen her responses to me.
Both will improve as our relationship builds.
It's part of why I like mares they're clear in their communication. I agree they're not consistent with it!

 

[Jellymoon]

My first thought was ‘saddle’, and then when you said about how the worst issue is the girthing…I thought it even more. Only because I had a similar experience, and all those issues re catching/loading/bridling etc all melted away. You sound like the type of person who gets everything checked regularly, and I expect your saddler is happy with the fit, as was mine, but my mare thought otherwise! I tried about 4/5 different saddles, and she decided which one she liked and has been happy ever since.

I also recently had a gelding who was difficult to bridle, and even bit me on the boob a couple of times while battling to get the bridle on. A change from a grackle to a plain cavesson, and he doesn’t fight at all now and the boobs are safe.

 

[lme]

In my experience as a long time mare owner, mares are often more than willing to communicate their feelings / opinions about our requests. Its one f the reasons I like mares. In my experience, sometimes there is an underlying physical reason that needs addressing. One of ours, who is usually pretty amenable, started to be difficult to tack up. She had a grumbling tendon injury and associated the tack with work, which she had started to find uncomfortable. Sometimes its just their personality. Another of our mares is generally pretty amenable but sometimes will object emphatically if she dislikes either what she is being asked to do or the way in which she is being asked. It is generally better to work with her.

 

[SusieT]

So have you had her teeth checked, ulcer checked etc?

 

[Ali27]

Have you checked that it’s not pain related? Tested for PSSM 1/2? Could it be grass related? Check out calm, healthy horses website. I genuinely think there is a reason for horse’s behaviour and that quite often it’s pain or feed related!

 

[HashRouge]

It's tricky, because it could be something and it could be nothing. I would be slightly wary about the objection to the girth/ saddle/ being groomed, as those would make me wonder about ulcers. Could the fact it is not all the time be linked to what/ how much she has eaten beforehand? You say that girthing is the most common objection, so I probably would consider scoping for ulcers.

 

[Ambers Echo]

She has had everything checked - usually more than once. I did teeth twice in 3 months as she was fussy in her mouth. Under the vet and recovered from hindgut ulcers. It's very obvious when there is a flare up as she drops weight and skin goes dull. She is looking fantastic at the moment. I know I am overthinking, and it's I know she is ok. I need to relax and trust my instincts.

In fact the issue we have most is that she is wary of people. She lunges at people she does not know well over the stable door and is very territorial. And that's during the day when no-one is making any demands on her at all. So it's not an anti-work association. Though it's all just gesture. If you hold your ground she then snuffles you for a treat! When she first arrived she would run to the back of the stable and shake so it's a change anyway. I guess she is less scared/more confident but still not overly keen on humans. She is even grumpy with the YO who only brings in turns out and feeds her. She runs from YO on 'nope not being caught' days too. Even though all being caught means is breakfast. (She is in during the day and out at night as she can't cope with too much sugary grass so we have found the right balance of turnout and grass to keep her healthy).

She spent a week at cowboy camp with the nh trainer Guy Robertson who felt she was fine - actually he really really liked her attitude. Just said she's not a people person. But great work ethic and very level headed.

I have high hopes of the freedom girth and I might try clicker to stop her being grumpy in the stable. But I think I need to accept that she is who she is and just roll with it.

 

[Caol Ila]

My mare would not let YO catch her for the farrier this morning. I think it's a combination of being in love with the new gelding, while 24/7 summer turnout means that I am the only person who handles her and she leans towards being a one-person horse if not handled by others regularly.

Mares.....

 

[SEL]

My mare would not let YO catch her for the farrier this morning. I think it's a combination of being in love with the new gelding, while 24/7 summer turnout means that I am the only person who handles her and she leans towards being a one-person horse if not handled by others regularly.

Mares.....

Mine on the other hand will shake her head at me and march up to whichever other human has turned up with me and demand they catch her Took my non horsey (actually quite scared) Dad by surprise - he's usually about 10 feet away and wouldn't know what way up a headcollar went on even if he got close enough.

 

[NinjaPony]

Sounds to me like she has learned some defensive behaviour, probably due to remembered pain from the hind gut ulcers. That would at least explain the girthyness and grooming.

I’d probably try her on regumate to rule out hormonal issues, then otherwise just carry on as you are, ignoring the bad, praising the good and de-escalating where possible.

It took my Welsh years to unlearn some of his territorial behaviour in the stable and even now he can revert back when in pain or under pressure. Posted just the other day about him threatening to kick because he has a sore spot on his tail… I just try to ignore the bad behaviour, carry on and make adjustments where possible and avoid backing him into a defensive corner.

She sounds a lot like mine TBH, a strange mixture of wary and bolshy, but I do think the grumpy behaviour in the stable is often a defensive thing, like they are expecting to get told off so are already squaring up for a confrontation. He will never be a people person, or particularly easy/chilled to handle, he doesn’t like cuddles or hugs and wants you to respect his personal space.

Sounds like you are already doing a great job with her to be honest.

 

[Ambers Echo]

She saw the vet physio today - she has a monthly MOT and then massage and laser/ultasound as needed.

First 10 minutes is an assessment to find any tights spots. That involves Lottie dancing around like Holly's hands are made of lava! Hollly has learned to just patiently persisi and eventually she stops and lets her actually massage her. At that point we get licking/chewing, eyes closing, sighing. Totally relaxed when she is actually getting stuck in. She says there is simply no correlation with how she reacts when you first touch her and the bits that are actually tight.

The area near her pecs is the only place that feels tight under jer hands. She said she looked really strong and feels great.

Fingers crossed for the girth. x

 

[Ambers Echo]

She sounds a lot like mine TBH, a strange mixture of wary and bolshy,t.

Yes that's is her to a tee!

 

[J&S]

She is just a mare with a bit of attitude! As you have 80%great behaviour i wouldn't worry. If any one of the behaviours starts to magnify then obviously you would check it out. From what you have shown us she seems to have taken to her work really well, she would not be out jumping clear rounds and getting improved dressage scores if she was not happy. The quality of her work would be declining, not improving. Also, it is possible that none of the things on your list were addressed properly in the very first place, well before she came to you.

 

[canteron]

I would definitely try some clicker or liberty work - I think they love it and it can completely change their attitude, even if you only teach silly things like to laugh or catch or whatever!!

 

[scats]

It took a couple of years to be able to touch, groom or tack Polly up without her box walking frantically.
The first year that the vet Chiro saw her, pretty much every month, Polly acted like her hands had electric currents running through them. Again, no correlation to the sore bits. She can still only treat her outside the stable, 5 years later.
No stranger can touch Polly’s body without hysterics, but I can do anything to her. She’s a very odd, quirky mare. I’m very much her human and any other humans are treated with serious suspicion. If anything slightly out of the ordinary happens- the fields getting topped, the hedges cut, Millie has an appointment and happens to leave her stable in a situation that Polly deems ‘not normal’, she creates a mulch race track in her stable and screams like a banshee until normality resumes, whether that be 5 hours later. I just have to block it out and ignore her now. I imagine she’d drive most people mad and think I know why she may have been past from pillar to post and ended up at a dealer.
I love her though, I’ve always felt that we were meant to end up together, for whatever reason.