Lottie and Everdale latest test wins, God help us rewarding this disgrace.

[Goldenstar]

Indian Rock is 11 and I think he looks younger almost green in his test he certainly not showing as much undesirable tension as some horses we have seen recently .
Too my eye he still looks weak in his work and work does not get harder than Grand Prix will the neck and BTV improve with mileage and more strength, I don’t know ,for sure it’s an interesting comparison to the test that started the thread .

 

[shortstuff99]

Just had a look it was diagnosed in 2019 and actually Dark Ronald/Bay Ronald is not the cause..

I should maybe get my 2yo tested mainly for being nosey but will see when I have some cash lying about to do it. I didn’t test her mother as no point as enough decent sjing stallions about who were WFFS free.

I am not convinced on the hyperflexion links with WFFS. I think you only need to look at the German warmbloods in 1970s to now to realise what money and motivation can do in breeding. Look at Everdale he had a 10yo son competing alongside him at London International. AI, embryo transfer and line breeding are probably far bigger reasons we have horses who move like they do now.

Dark Ronald xx, Not Origin Horse for Warmblood Fragile Foal Syndrome (WFFS)

The Thoroughbred Dark Ronald xx is not the source horse of the Warmblood Fragile Foal Syndrome (WFFS). A recent study proved that Dark Renold xx was not a carrier of the WFFS causative variant and that the origin might come from a Hanoverian stallion.

eurodressage.com

It came to light in 2019 as a big breeder used Everdale and the foal died of WFFS, I'm not sure when it actually originated.

It is just quite interesting that lots of these "freaky" moving horses all seem to be WFFS carriers. That could be coincidental and occurring because of line breeding but it definitely warrants more research (and perhaps caution).

 

[ihatework]

It came to light in 2019 as a big breeder used Everdale and the foal died of WFFS, I'm not sure when it actually originated.

It is just quite interesting that lots of these "freaky" moving horses all seem to be WFFS carriers. That could be coincidental and occurring because of line breeding but it definitely warrants more research (and perhaps caution).

I think it was earlier it was starting to be recognised.
I have a 2016 Balou du Rouet who at the time I hadn’t heard of it. But fairly soon after (mine would have been 18 months ish) Balou tested positive. Racking my brains but I’m pretty (but not 100%) sure he was younger than 3/4 when I knew about it

 

[palo1]

We have bred horses here: using Arab stallions or tb x so I understand a little about breeding considerations, cycles and issues that can arise though we would aim to breed tough, versatile types rather than very specialist competition horses. However, in the equestrian culture my OH and I were raised in, there was a complete, unequivocal acceptance that any significant conformational, temperamental or apparently inherited undesirable traits or issues would make a horse unsuitable for breeding. That is what vets and breeders we respect have traditionally used as a baseline.

I am certain many breeders still work in that way and others will protest that they have 'careful' breeding programmes which mitigate against known weaknesses but that feel s a bit dismissive and tbh, naive and possibly self interested. But, I suppose...profit...'success'...

I know competition horses have entered a performance arms race but accepting and working around devastating genetic issues, or adopting
A 'wait and see approach' does seem unethical and irresponsible. I don't get it at all I am afraid, regardless of our very lowly position in the horse breeding context. It makes me wonder what the point of taking it all seriously is tbh! Having pondered on that for all of 30 seconds, I realise there is no point at all. The breeding of compromised or potentially compromised horses is widespread, and probably largely for money or ego. It's really sad and likely causes considerable heartache, emotionally and financially as well as the cost to horses ' health and life chances. We are not breeding currently and may never do so again but very glad we are nowhere near anything like performance horse breeding if ethical standards are so compromised. Sorry for the long post: this aspect of the thread is pretty affecting for me. Probably best not read any more!

 

[shortstuff99]

I can start a new thread (probably tomorrow as my brain has given up tonight, fractured my cheek bone by being accidentally nutted by a horse ) on genetics and breeding if people are interested in a specific discussion rather than on this post?

 

[Dave's Mam]

I can start a new thread (probably tomorrow as my brain has given up tonight, fractured my cheek bone by being accidentally nutted by a horse ) on genetics and breeding if people are interested in a specific discussion rather than on this post?

Oh yes, that would be interesting.
Ouch on the cheekbone. Hope you're ok.

 

[SEL]

I can start a new thread (probably tomorrow as my brain has given up tonight, fractured my cheek bone by being accidentally nutted by a horse ) on genetics and breeding if people are interested in a specific discussion rather than on this post?

Yes please - ouch for the cheekbone

 

[LEC]

It's "funny" when people decide to play it safe, or not. With the genetic link of WFFS being relatively new, and there being a lot of unknowns, people are still very enthusiastic about breeding from carriers rather than apprehensive. Then again, I can see people just thinking that there's no reason to be apprehensive.

I know that in general the attitude surrounding WFFS carriers and breeding them to non carriers is very relaxed.

Not sure whether or not I agree or disagree, really. If I had a WFFS carrier, it'd have to be one hell of a horse for me to breed it (to a non carrier). Then again, I feel that way in general.

I don't agree with a lot of the casual breeding decisions on HHO to be honest, but as long as people and horses are happy and healthy, then whatever I suppose!

There are no definite links with anything other than WFFS. There is no solid proof of anything else so how is it casual?

All stallions are tested now so breeders have the information as before 2019 you would have been playing roulette. WFFS has clearly been around for hundreds of years and supposedly the link is from 1800s with the Hanoverian so there is a lot out there carrying WFFS.

I am pretty sure if you got most horses tested in uk then there would be far more carriers but in backyard Britain nobody even knows if their horse is lame let alone about WFFS.

PSSM is a far bigger issue.

 

[shortstuff99]

New thread here https://forums.horseandhound.co.uk/threads/the-ethics-of-genetics-within-horse-breeding.836158/

 

[splashgirl45]

Sorry everyone I can’t do a link but if you look on the Facebook page , equestrians,it’s time to act , there is freestyle ridden by Catherine dufour( can’t remember the second part of her name) winning the GP special and IMO it’s fabulous, how dressage should be, and the judges marked her well. It was great to see freestyle so relaxed and not so extravagant , she was a little bit mouthy some of the time but I loved the test . There is also a clip of French discussions about horses in sport which is interesting . Maybe someone on here could put the links on for everyone to watch

 

[shortstuff99]

Oh dear

Patrik Kittel’s horse lost oxygen: ”The tongue is blue-purple”

Dressage star Patrik Kittel's horse lost oxygen in its tongue during two World Cup competitions. A series of pictures that Sportbladet has accessed reveal that

www.aftonbladet.se

 

[silv]

Oh dear

Patrik Kittel’s horse lost oxygen: ”The tongue is blue-purple”

Dressage star Patrik Kittel's horse lost oxygen in its tongue during two World Cup competitions. A series of pictures that Sportbladet has accessed reveal that

www.aftonbladet.se

What an absolute disgrace, until these riders are punished properly ie a long ban from competition this will continue, who in their right mind would send their horse to him to compete.

 

[Dave's Mam]

And he was rewarded. *sigh*

 

[tristars]

horses do not need doubles bridles or snaffles to adopt the perfect head carriage, in hand work often shows horses carrying their heads necks overall posture in the perfect poise, angles, in fact they don`t need riders to get there

i often see horses take up the perfect head carriage when going from walk to canter on the simple lunge line

these riders need to step back, a long way, they need to learn from horses how to ride, listen to and learn from the horse, who will show you if only you let them, instead of inflicting their very wrong notions on how a horse should perform and completely losing the whole point of dressage which is the horse working on its own with only intervention by the rider when needed, instead of inflicting torture on innocent horses through domination and lack of feeling for the horse as a living creature with feelings

 

[SEL]

"lost oxygen" I'm hoping that's just a clumsy translation from the German article because it sounds a lot more innocent than "my rider had my bridle so tight and held my head at such an angle the oxygen supply to my tongue was cut off and it went blue"

This is as much an RSPCA (or equivalent) welfare case as causing an injury to an animal.

 

[shortstuff99]

Lottie Fry and Everdale win the Grand Prix at the World Cup finals. Frame looked better than before. Interestingly most riders rode with a more open frame which shows you that they have always been capable of riding this way and weren't (probably for higher marks)! Werth had a bit of a shocker of a test

FEI Dressage World Cup™ Final Grand Prix 2024, Charlotte Fry & Everdale (GBR) | Everlasting elegace = Everdale and Lottie Fry! ✨ Great Britain's Charlotte Fry and the sensational stallion Everdale have claimed top honours in the... | By Fédération E

Everlasting elegace = Everdale and Lottie Fry! ✨ Great Britain's Charlotte Fry and the sensational stallion Everdale have claimed top honours in the...

www.facebook.com

 

[AShetlandBitMeOnce]

Lottie Fry and Everdale win the Grand Prix at the World Cup finals. Frame looked better than before. Interestingly most riders rode with a more open frame which shows you that they have always been capable of riding this way and weren't (probably for higher marks)! Werth had a bit of a shocker of a test

FEI Dressage World Cup™ Final Grand Prix 2024, Charlotte Fry & Everdale (GBR) | Everlasting elegace = Everdale and Lottie Fry! ✨ Great Britain's Charlotte Fry and the sensational stallion Everdale have claimed top honours in the... | By Fédération E

Everlasting elegace = Everdale and Lottie Fry! ✨ Great Britain's Charlotte Fry and the sensational stallion Everdale have claimed top honours in the...

www.facebook.com

I say this with the worst of intentions, but sod Werth and everything she stands for (and by).
Glad to see more open frames, lots to be done but it's a small glimmer of hope that there might be change afoot.

 

[splashgirl45]

Lottie Fry and Everdale win the Grand Prix at the World Cup finals. Frame looked better than before. Interestingly most riders rode with a more open frame which shows you that they have always been capable of riding this way and weren't (probably for higher marks)! Werth had a bit of a shocker of a test

FEI Dressage World Cup™ Final Grand Prix 2024, Charlotte Fry & Everdale (GBR) | Everlasting elegace = Everdale and Lottie Fry! ✨ Great Britain's Charlotte Fry and the sensational stallion Everdale have claimed top honours in the... | By Fédération E

Everlasting elegace = Everdale and Lottie Fry! ✨ Great Britain's Charlotte Fry and the sensational stallion Everdale have claimed top honours in the...

www.facebook.com

I thought this test was more harmonious than the previous one, and the judges weren’t marking so high which is a good sign… yes he was BTV most of the test but his mouth was quieter and he looked calmer, the movements were also more correct , he did halt properly each time, although he did put his head up in 2 of the halts. Lets hope the judges get brave and mark what they see and not who they are

 

[ester]

I just don’t really enjoy watching him, at least we finally got a commentary re. The fact that his frame never changes for any of the extensions just before the end (and why doesn’t it change?)

 

[LEC]

He seems to have switched to plastic bits which is interesting and now both snaffle and curb are plastic. Not seen both plastic at that level. It did look better.

 

[splashgirl45]

Apparently they are rubber bits

 

[MagicMelon]

FEI endurance is sadly lacking too. There’s some serious cruelty in our sports.

For me, its racing, top level dressage and top level endurance that I feel are the cruellest. I just dont get why there are so many people in the world who dont actually seem to "like" their horses. If they did, they wouldnt do all this rubbish to them. I cant watch top level dressage these days, eventing dressage look so much more "natural" compared to pure.

Honestly, feel there has to be a massive overhaul. Dressage needs to allow bitless and even bridleless options these days, I hate dressage but Id love to try that sort of thing - would give a lot of us who've had "must wear bits" ingrained into us for years a new challenge.

 

[splashgirl45]

For me, its racing, top level dressage and top level endurance that I feel are the cruellest. I just dont get why there are so many people in the world who dont actually seem to "like" their horses. If they did, they wouldnt do all this rubbish to them. I cant watch top level dressage these days, eventing dressage look so much more "natural" compared to pure.

Honestly, feel there has to be a massive overhaul. Dressage needs to allow bitless and even bridleless options these days, I hate dressage but Id love to try that sort of thing - would give a lot of us who've had "must wear bits" ingrained into us for years a new challenge.

Why not show jumping. The amount of severe bits, the extreme heights they are expected to jump, and many of them use tight draw reins , but that’s ok then ?

 

[shortstuff99]

Why not show jumping. The amount of severe bits, the extreme heights they are expected to jump, and many of them use tight draw reins , but that’s ok then ?

Quite. And not to derail this thread but a horse passed away yesterday after his showjumping round at the world cup finals.

 

[ihatework]

Why not show jumping. The amount of severe bits, the extreme heights they are expected to jump, and many of them use tight draw reins , but that’s ok then ?

Quite. And eventing (I’m a huge eventing supporter, but the sport has its issues).

Actually, I think endurance is quite a good sport for horses. The problem is the Middle Eastern influence on it.

The FEI just needs to grow a set of balls and reform.

 

[Crazy_cat_lady]

Why not show jumping. The amount of severe bits, the extreme heights they are expected to jump, and many of them use tight draw reins , but that’s ok then ?

Yep would put show-jumping right up there the amount of clobber a lot wear on their heads, then the incidences you hear about rapping etc - and that's just those who've been caught

 

[TheMule]

Does anyone know why Lottie Fry has been eliminated before the Freestyle tonight?

 

[teapot]

Does anyone know why Lottie Fry has been eliminated before the Freestyle tonight?

Blood according to this https://eurodressage.com/2024/04/19...z4Os2do3U7wbpXs1X6-3EKLo1_mRbpu6gdsSzg1s2dcFI

 

[Muddywellies]

I'm a dressage rider through and through, but I'm starting to fall out of love with the sport.

 

[TheMule]

Blood according to this https://eurodressage.com/2024/04/19...z4Os2do3U7wbpXs1X6-3EKLo1_mRbpu6gdsSzg1s2dcFI

Thank you- I was watching but just popped to get something and when I came back, she was gone!