Lovely horse for sale

CanteringCarrot said:
However, if you take on a horse that a group of people told you had a variety of issues and/or red flags, they're going to be a bit less sympathetic when you come back bemoaning about said horse and it's issues.

I don't want to bash the OP here, and I think many of us want to prevent the OP from having another "poor" experience when buying and owning a horse. Obviously, Lari is loved and it is what it is, but there were red flags when I first saw his video and whatnot, so I was zero percent surprised when he had a plethora of issues.
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I'm not looking to buy him, I was just interested in people's opinions of him as I thought he looked a nice horse and as he wasn't lame, I must look very differently to you guys, I honestly thought he looked okay apart from the hind feet, the hock conformation isn't the worse I've ever seen and a photo is so subjective because of so many things, we can't even be sure of the feet.

I still have Lari's sale video and look at it from time to time. I could honestly not see anything wrong and I asked two vets their opinion and they said he wasn't lame in the video so they were as surprised as I was to find all the issues he had especially as he passed a vetting which I was later told he should not have passed. Yes, he looked a little weak behind and I suppose I should have questionned more his lack of topline and muscle but given that the seller wasn't doing that much with him at the time I guess I wasn't that surprised and like I was trying to explain without knocking people or being personal, his type i.e. a good SJ it was typical.

I guess its swings and roundabouts. Like my other vet said, in all his career he's probably only counted on one hand the number of 100% completely sound horses.

Anyway thanks for th ecommetns.
 
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HopOnTrot said:
A warning against the seller has just popped up on a dodgy dealers page on FB, no detail (of course) but said to avoid, I’ll follow it and see what they say!
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Blimey what a coincidence that is! :rolleyes: I can't find his name on any of the dodgy dealer sites either other than a post 11 hours ago by an anonymous poster saying avoid the person selling the horse at all costs but no information supplied. I can't show you the screen shots as someone will report me to admin, needless to say he's a famous SJ on the circuit and well respected and doesn't look like anyone has complained about him previously. Someone asking the anon person to give more info but of course they won't, how unfair that someone is named on that site as a scammer without any content given. At least with explanation people can make up their own mind.
 
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Just caught up on this one and I have to say it's been very educational - I'm not looking for another horse as I'm no longer allowed to ride, but I do still love looking and learning. I know I made a mistake when I bought Bear, he had a very boxy upright front hoof and though I'm not convinced his tearing his ddft had anything to do with that, it was in the opposite foot, so maybe bad luck or maybe imbalance, I'll never know.
This has been an interesting thread, thank you to all the contributors.
 
Birker2020 said:
I guess its swings and roundabouts. Like my other vet said, in all his career he's probably only counted on one hand the number of 100% completely sound horses.

Anyway thanks for th ecommetns.
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Just on this point, I know a groom that works for a well known top international showjumper. They have on numerous occasions said that the showjumper themselves have said that if their horses were put through some of the pre-sale vettings offered, he'd be fairly confident not one would pass. yet they are all out jumping to a high level.

I had a horse that was horrendously pigeon toed. so much so he'd make you cringe. he was insanely talented and well able to jump. It never interfered with him. I sadly had to put him to sleep in December, but for completely unrelated issues.
 
ElectricChampagne said:
Just on this point, I know a groom that works for a well known top international showjumper. They have on numerous occasions said that the showjumper themselves have said that if their horses were put through some of the pre-sale vettings offered, he'd be fairly confident not one would pass. yet they are all out jumping to a high level.
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Oh that’s very true. And the same can be said for dressage and event horses too. There are a whole host of both conformational issues and medical issues that decent performance horses can cope with adequately. But it takes quite nuanced management and training to keep them functioning. But just because those ones are coping, it doesn’t account for the many that never make the grade and are quietly moved on. There is quite a lot of wastage in sporthorse breeding (that’s a whole other conversation!).

But you have to look at the horse as a whole, and for the horse in question the change in the way of going between the young loose and now as a 6yo under saddle. I can forgive spells of btv in a young horse finding its balance. I can forgive some conformational faults on a horse that is destined for lower level stuff provided it looks rideable and suitable for that job (this one doesn’t!). But just look at how this horse pitches down. Goldensrar calls it croup high, I say balancing down, but essentially both the same thing. That shouldn’t be this horses default (it’s not a cart horse!) it’s developed over time and is significant, despite not looking obviously lame.

Hell, the big carthorse I bought cheap cheap was really weak over his back with not such good hind conformation. But I bought him because a) he was good enough for a hunting job, b) he was cheap enough to gamble c) the feel he gave me when I sat on him felt honest but also natural and an uphill tendency despite his hind leg.
TBF he surprised me at how well he came on and he’s still out gathering BE rosettes in his new home, but I was very careful who I sold him to. A nervous and not that proficient amateur would have had a problem on their hands within a year.
 
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Also good to consider whether the horse is out doing the job the advert claims it will do well at - I think if a horse with questionable conformation is out doing the job well then it's something that could be looked over.. I'm always suspicious of something that you'd think could/should be out and competing etc but isn't, that's when I'd be very cautious over conformation / way of going!
 
Birker2020 said:
Its a complete nightmare. This will be my 8th horse and I'm hoping the last one. I'm beginning to think I'd have more chance flying to the moon that selecting a sound and sane next best friend.
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I think the best method is to have plenty horsey contacts and to try to find something word of mouth that can be vouched for. Easier said than done I know.
I tend to opt for projects I already know in some capacity so that I have a fair idea what I’m taking on. Xx
 
ramsaybailey said:
Also good to consider whether the horse is out doing the job the advert claims it will do well at - I think if a horse with questionable conformation is out doing the job well then it's something that could be looked over.
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This is good in theory but takes a lot of drilling down to verify if you don't know the vendor. I've seen videos in an advert of a horse competing which turned out to be 2 years old. A horse I recently viewed which had something going on with the hind end had been out competing until a few months ago and the vendor had a sort of plausible/difficult to verify reason to be selling. A lot of horses are now in sales livery so that the agent has no responsibility to be truthful and if you don't meet the owner face to face it's hard to judge if they stopped competing due to pregancy, new job, looking after sick parent or any other reason. I also don't need to be started on the difficulty of getting a deposit returned by these agents if the horse fails the vet.

Birker2020 said:
Its a complete nightmare. This will be my 8th horse and I'm hoping the last one. I'm beginning to think I'd have more chance flying to the moon that selecting a sound and sane next best friend.
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Same, I've had a similar no. of horses and also hope this will be my last, been looking since Jan, seeing another tomorrow, not getting my hopes up.
 
nutjob said:
This is good in theory but takes a lot of drilling down to verify if you don't know the vendor. I've seen videos in an advert of a horse competing which turned out to be 2 years old. A horse I recently viewed which had something going on with the hind end had been out competing until a few months ago and the vendor had a sort of plausible/difficult to verify reason to be selling. A lot of horses are now in sales livery so that the agent has no responsibility to be truthful and if you don't meet the owner face to face it's hard to judge if they stopped competing due to pregancy, new job, looking after sick parent or any other reason. I also don't need to be started on the difficulty of getting a deposit returned by these agents if the horse fails the vet.


Same, I've had a similar no. of horses and also hope this will be my last, been looking since Jan, seeing another tomorrow, not getting my hopes up.
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Good luck! You have my sympathy.
 
Oh yes there will be reasons .
Poor horse if he’s sensible to hack he’s in the price range for that now I hope he find just the right spot .
And he’s sound enough to pass a vetting for that .
 
Goldenstar said:
Oh yes there will be reasons .
Poor horse if he’s sensible to hack he’s in the price range for that now I hope he find just the right spot .
And he’s sound enough to pass a vetting for that .
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I hope he lands on his feet too.

Yes he's definitely sound which is why I asked the question as there is always a reason why a horse is that price. Normally you can see they are not sound which is why I was confused. Fingers crossed Goldenstar.
 
There’s more to soundness than basic limb soundness as in the regularity of how a horse places its feet .
That’s how deeply compromised horses can pass vets .
There’s loads of things that can be done in the run up to a vetting that help a horse through .
People are clever and where does clever management become hiding an issue .
People are also good at managing their own horses and that can be something so instinctive that people don’t know they are doing it and that’s why a change of home brings all sorts of issues to the surface .

I am not referring to the horse you posted , I suspect he’s failed the vet perhaps more than once .
 
Goldenstar said:
There’s more to soundness than basic limb soundness as in the regularity of how a horse places its feet .
That’s how deeply compromised horses can pass vets .
There’s loads of things that can be done in the run up to a vetting that help a horse through .
People are clever and where does clever management become hiding an issue .
People are also good at managing their own horses and that can be something so instinctive that people don’t know they are doing it and that’s why a change of home brings all sorts of issues to the surface .

I am not referring to the horse you posted , I suspect he’s failed the vet perhaps more than once .
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Oh yes I realise that, Bailey (on vets advice and in a conflab between vet and farrier) had lateral extensions on her shoes when she first got treated for spavin because she was placing her hind limbs midline to avoid pain. So the lateral extensions provided a support with a larger surface so compression was minimised during the weight bearing phase of the stride and it meant she was unable to put her hind legs too far under her belly. I also appreciate that horses will swing their feet out or in depending on where it hurts or move in multiple ways to avoid pain over compensating in other areas.

It is such a minefield, the chance of remaining relatively unstung when buying a horse seems to be very low these days. :(
 
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