Low Hand Epidemic

cptrayes

cptrayes

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What's going on with what appears to be an epidemic of riders with their hands either side of the horse's wither and little or no elbow bend?

Are people being trained to ride this way now?
 
Lol! Not sure....
I was always taught to place my hands no wider than the neck, and to carry a riding crop across both of my thumbs or imagine carrying a yea tray! Lol x
 
Yes they are. Sick of hearing push your hands towards the neck strap. It's crap. Soft elbows, open shoulders, carry your hands.

All these riders have heels jammed down, sticky out knees and straight arms and hunched over shoulders. Tipped forwards and no use of their seat

I've actually stopped worrying about it now and don't even think about it in general (unless on the net!)
 
I noticed the straight arms/low hands thing in a recent Horse and Hound picture from a dressage competition. Odd, I thought. If your elbows are bent you can keep your hands still and soft.

People are actually being TAUGHT this? My instructor used to yell at people "elbows."
 
I thought this was going to be about folk on small horses, that's how paranoid I am. However, I have high hands they are just lower to the ground cos the horse is a midget :D
 
Maybe its a retrospective fashion from the early 90s as pretty sure this is how I rode at PC!
 
It's sadly just this obsession that the horse is 'going in an outline' so the rider tries to yank the head and neck down. It's ridiculous and looks ridiculous and the number of dealers riders that do it is laughable, picture after picture.
 
I think that it is a combination of outline obsessing and also the impact of back protector culture. I used to sit nicely and not hunch and ip forward but have found that wearing a back protector (Rodney Powell in my case) for many years bringing on a sharp youngster has left me struggling with tipping forwards/ hunched shoulders and straight arms. Just my theory anyway.
 
I don't necessarily think it's a new thing. Year on year you have new/novice riders wanting to learn how to get a horse 'on the bit'. People don't set out to ride badly, they just make judgement errors along the way.
 
Ugh just been looking at pics of me and my horse and others that I ride versus me on my old horse 4+ years ago and my position and hands have got progressively worse!!! It is not for lack of instruction and I remember about a year ago being told to lower my hands as they were too high by a very well respected trainer who carries her hands beautifully herself so I just don't understand it :( Pictures dont lie though!

I am actually glad i've had an enforced long break due to my horses injury and fully intend to beg old trainer to come back and teach us next year when we are back up and running again!
 
YasandCrystal said:
It's sadly just this obsession that the horse is 'going in an outline' so the rider tries to yank the head and neck down. It's ridiculous and looks ridiculous and the number of dealers riders that do it is laughable, picture after picture.
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Agree with this. You see a LOT of for sale ads with hunched over riders in the chair position with low hands and straight elbows - very odd

I must admit when pony does her giraffe impression and I want her to lower her head I automtically lower mine :eek:
 
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Seems to be one of two extremes, low hands or high hands. High hands seems to be an attempt to replicate the style used by riders of grand prix horses. Major difference is that these horses have the muscle and elevation that lifts the horse up.
Holding hands level with the chest just isn't going to magically give your horse the strength to meet you there.

Why did no one worry about 'on-the-bit' years ago ? I recall being encouraged to get my pony going forwards and to have quiet hands, but twiddling and sawing wasn't mentioned.
 
I hate the low hands held far apart thing , not saying there are not times when you need an opening hand but you have to be working towards the correct contact .
Not sure how a rider ever learns to soften and use the elbow properly with their arms straight and I think OP is correct you do see it a lot .
 
"hands wide-and-low" is being taught to many, many people nowadays. No idea why since it doesn't achieve anything other than stiff, hunched riders and annoyed horses. Silly and a bit dim, to say the least.
 
Maybe it's why single jointed snaffles have become the devil's instruments now? The argument that they poke the roof of the mouth if the hand is lower than the mouth always makes me wonder a little - except in very specific circumstances when the horse is chucking itself around anyway, how does that happen?
 
TarrSteps said:
Maybe it's why single jointed snaffles have become the devil's instruments now? The argument that they poke the roof of the mouth if the hand is lower than the mouth always makes me wonder a little - except in very specific circumstances when the horse is chucking itself around anyway, how does that happen?
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This^^^^

I hate when people make this sweeping statement about my single jointed fulmer that I jump my horse in! I'd have to pull my hands to my knees to have this effect!
 
I was never taught this, but caught myself doing it a few years ago! My instructor told me a story of how he had done similar, until an instructor asked him, "Is it working?", to which the answer was, "No!", so he stopped doing it. To get me to break the habit of wide hands, he actually gave me a loop of thin string to hold over my wrists: it would break easily if I really needed to move my arms about for some reason, but would warn me if they started drifting. I used it a few times, and I think this silly habit is broken! :)
 
My hands are appalling. But I know they are, and I ride round saying to myself "hands upright in front and carried as a pair, hands upright in front and carried as a pair ..."
 
Yes!! I've been wondering about this!!

I think it's about lack of core strength and again outline obsessing. (I'll admit I've given in to both at times!)
 
My hands and arms are dreadful and I do try hard but for some reason it is taking a long time to improve despite my instructor telling me in every lesson to lift my hands, bend my elbows and not fix them. The only time she tells me it is ok to lower the hands is for free rein on a long walk.
 
Yes, people are taught it. I don't know why. But when I am saying to someone, "bend your elbows and keep your hands closer together," and they say, "But I was told by (other instructor/last instructor/YO) to keep my hands low and wide," I want to a cry a little bit.
 
There was an instructor who used to come to our yard who did the low hands thing, it was weird how people went for it and then just as suddenly went off of it
 
Although my current instructor is always teling me to raise my hands bend elbow etc she is a classical dressage trainer and quite old school which suits me well and the results I get are good.

However I think some of the younger generation of instructors like the low and wide hand position I was shown this about 15 years ago before I had my current instructor, by a young dressage rider who must only have been about 20 at the time and he said it was a short cut to getting an outline. That might be the case but my instructor that I have at the moment said by doing this you fix the horses head and encourage it to go on the forehand and not work from behind that than working in a soft outline.

Caol Ila said:
Yes, people are taught it. I don't know why. But when I am saying to someone, "bend your elbows and keep your hands closer together," and they say, "But I was told by (other instructor/last instructor/YO) to keep my hands low and wide," I want to a cry a little bit.
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its_noodles said:
yep, that would be me....
:)
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Are you happy with riding that way?

It seems to me that it ruins the free movement of the elbow which is absolutely essential to an instantaneous, soft response to the horse's mouth. All the subtelty of your hands is surely lost, and you are using your hands like side reins?
 
cptrayes said:
Are you happy with riding that way?

It seems to me that it ruins the free movement of the elbow which is absolutely essential to an instantaneous, soft response to the horse's mouth. All the subtelty of your hands is surely lost, and you are using your hands like side reins?
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That's exactly why it's a quick fix- if you have the strength you can pin them into a contact and fool well "fools" into thinking it is working correctly. Classic dealer trick! Lots of leg/stick, fixed hands and funnel them into it...
 
I remember having dressage lessons in the late 70s early 80s and being taught to lower my hands, it stuck with me but I gave up dressage and was just hacking, when I restarted lessons 6 years ago it was a revelation to carry my hands and instantly the horse improved, but I still struggle to carry them high enough but I'm constantly working on it.
 
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