Lunging how bad is it for horses

[Elf On A Shelf]

That would be why I would be determined to definitely do it again. No horse should take over like that, whether on the lunge or loose. But I would prefer loose training in a school for that one! Teach manners, etc.

A. I don't have a school so everything is done in the field whilst other ponies are wandering about.
B. I hate loathe and despise lunging and only ever do it if I am slightly unsure of soundness.
C. Gray lunged perfectly well when he isn't being a hyperactive toad.
D. His manners are perfect - he is an exracer and probably has more manners in his hoof than most other peoples normal horses.
E. It was a one off. If I want to work something from the ground I long line.

 

[tristar]

I do groundwork, which does involve circle work in the round yard, both on a line and off. But a 25-30 minutes session is broken up with lots of other exercises; yielding forequarters/hindquarters, backing, desensitising etc. I usually start a groundwork session by sending them a few laps off the line, I step in front of the drive line, they look at me and I send them the other direction. When I'm ready to stop, I step in front of the driveline, horse slows/stops to look and I walk away drawing the horse in. I've found this utterly fantastic for building relationship/confidence with the horses. I'm then set to do desensitising work, and then sensitising exercises. I've noticed a HUGE difference in my WB, who is so much more supple in both directions, has sharper responses (was always super dull) and is working beautifully undersaddle despite schooling once a week. The rest of his week is groundwork/hacking sessions. These groundwork sessions seem to work at targetting a range of body motions as well as working at mentally unlocking a horse who has 'switched off' a bit. I switch the groundwork sessions up too, when the weather is good we go into the paddock and jump logs/ditches, back into tight spaces etc. It's pretty fun to be lunging a horse in a 50 acre paddock, in a rope halter over jumps and all I have to do is look at his quarters and he yields to a stop from canter and gets a big rub and a breather for his efforts!

i do a fair bit of this, i only say to him , go the other way ,and off he goes in the other direction, he loves it, they are so clever given the chance.

 

[sbloom]

Lunging is so outdated nowadays!!! Try loose schooling or even a personal fave long lining/ ground driving and I hand work. I find I get more out of doing those activities than I ever have with lunging.

So not true, it has gone out of favour because of things like this post, not realising the benefits of doing it correctly. We've forgotten how to do these things correctly, how to have a horse going on two tracks, in balance, and straight, and instead shove them on the lung with ropes and straps and God knows what, no wonder that has developed a bad reputation! Do look at arr.de, he has rehabbed over 6000 horses on the lunge, saving many from pts and returning them to health and usually full work. Horses for courses, do what works for you, but correct classical lunging has many benefits.

 

[oldie48]

I've just come back to this post because Rose was lunged today, not by me as I don't have the skill to do it properly, so I pay someone to do it for me. Why? Because I think done properly it's really useful to see how your horse moves without a rider and I think it tells me a good deal about where she is in her training. Rose worked on transitions, basically what I would have done if I'd been riding her. she's lunged about every two weeks for about 30 minutes. I think the value of her being lunged properly is that is makes her responsible for finding her own balance rather than relying on the rider, it also allows me to see where she's stiffer and to confirm that it's not me or it is me that's causing the stiffness./problem I am not a hugely experienced rider so perhaps if my "feel" was better I could do this in the saddle. Does it have an adverse affect on her joints? I don't think so, the surface is good and she is more than capable of being on a 20m or a 10 m circle without issue and she is worked according to her ability. I canter her on a 10m circle without her a problem so i am confident she can do it without a rider. Over the years I have seen lots of horses lunged badly but tbh they are also the horses that tend to be ridden badly too.

 

[tristar]

So not true, it has gone out of favour because of things like this post, not realising the benefits of doing it correctly. We've forgotten how to do these things correctly, how to have a horse going on two tracks, in balance, and straight, and instead shove them on the lung with ropes and straps and God knows what, no wonder that has developed a bad reputation! Do look at arr.de, he has rehabbed over 6000 horses on the lunge, saving many from pts and returning them to health and usually full work. Horses for courses, do what works for you, but correct classical lunging has many benefits.

yes out of favour, along with lots of other `old fashioned ways`, like well worked slim horses, ha flippin ha

 

[nikkimariet]

Depends on the intensity, pressure, surface, duration etc.

It is a great tool when done right. But can very easily become cruel and damaging.

The only gadget I’ll buy into is an elastic bungee which when loosely secured helps encourage a horse to work without being able to hollow. I tend to jog round with the horse to allow the circle to be as big as possible.

For me, I’d rather get on. Even if just for 10 minutes.

 

[Tarragon]

I once read somewhere that it was beneficial to lunge in a field where it was wasn't level and even on an incline, to help the horse find its balance. So, assuming that the horses was being lunged properly and it was a field with nice springy turf, do you lot agree?

 

[Tiddlypom]

Lunging in a field soon cuts it up. It was the only option that I had for 20 years before we had the arena put in, so I did do a fair bit of it. I had to wait for the going to be perfect before I risked it - an unexpected shower of rain could scupper my plans even as I was tacking up. My now senior mare fell over in canter as a young horse when she slipped behind.

My land is decent loam soil, so not springy turf but it still good for riding on at times.

 

[Leo Walker]

I once read somewhere that it was beneficial to lunge in a field where it was wasn't level and even on an incline, to help the horse find its balance. So, assuming that the horses was being lunged properly and it was a field with nice springy turf, do you lot agree?

When I got Bobbie she was a fat 4yr old with zero balance, no forwards and no idea where her feet were. For about a month I lunged her 4 times a week in an enormous field. I worked her over the uneven ground, little ditches, patches of long grass, any slopes I could find etc, etc. She learnt to do this and to concentrate no matter what. She was lunging politely in a headcollar the day the hedge trimmer came and did the hedges.

By the end of that time she'd lost significant amounts of weight, found her balance and was starting to look like a different horse. It was invaluable for her.

I tend to lunge once a week or so. I like to do things like jumping and pole work which isnt really advisable in a carriage! I also like to see how shes moving. I wouldnt be keen on doing it every day, and I do prefer to lunge on grass, but I cant see any reason not to carry on lunging once a week or so.

 

[ester]

I once read somewhere that it was beneficial to lunge in a field where it was wasn't level and even on an incline, to help the horse find its balance. So, assuming that the horses was being lunged properly and it was a field with nice springy turf, do you lot agree?

IME when we only had grass to work on (no incline) F did have better 'grass legs' for turning etc. But there were many many ground compromises (clay so never really nice springy turf, usually hard or wet!).

 

[supsup]

I recently came across a lunging method called 'equikinetic' again. It was 'invented' by a German guy and it is basically an interval training method for horses, on a small 8m circle. The circle is actually marked out as a square with poles on four sides with open corners, and the horse is 'lunged' more from a work-in-hand position. The horse is asked to trot for 60s in vertical balance and bend around the poles, then changes hand and relaxes 30s, then the next trot phase follows on the other hand. Supposedly great to build muscle quickly. (If you put equikinetic into youtube, you'll find examples.)
I am completely of two minds about this method - on the one hand I can follow the argument that if you want to build muscle, a structured training with 'reps'/intervals will produce results. On the other hand, it seems terribly repetitive for the horse (boring!), and always working on such a small circle also sounds like a recipe for injuries. I'm slightly doubtful that even if the horse really is in good balance, that repetitive work on such a small circle doesn't have negative side effects.
Has anyone else come across this method, and has an opinion?

 

[tristar]

I recently came across a lunging method called 'equikinetic' again. It was 'invented' by a German guy and it is basically an interval training method for horses, on a small 8m circle. The circle is actually marked out as a square with poles on four sides with open corners, and the horse is 'lunged' more from a work-in-hand position. The horse is asked to trot for 60s in vertical balance and bend around the poles, then changes hand and relaxes 30s, then the next trot phase follows on the other hand. Supposedly great to build muscle quickly. (If you put equikinetic into youtube, you'll find examples.)
I am completely of two minds about this method - on the one hand I can follow the argument that if you want to build muscle, a structured training with 'reps'/intervals will produce results. On the other hand, it seems terribly repetitive for the horse (boring!), and always working on such a small circle also sounds like a recipe for injuries. I'm slightly doubtful that even if the horse really is in good balance, that repetitive work on such a small circle doesn't have negative side effects.
Has anyone else come across this method, and has an opinion?

i would prefer to ride if i was doing a small circle, i only do the odd small circle

 

[ycbm]

I once read somewhere that it was beneficial to lunge in a field where it was wasn't level and even on an incline, to help the horse find its balance. So, assuming that the horses was being lunged properly and it was a field with nice springy turf, do you lot agree?

That might even have been on a thread of mine about six years ago. I had a QHx who was the clumsiest creature who didn't seem to understand his own body. I was advised by forum members to lunge him on uneven and sloping ground. Luckily, I own such a field! I did that in trot for five minutes each way, three times a week as I recall, maybe less, but it certainly worked and I would do it again with a similar horse.

I'd forgotten all about that!

.

 

[Goldenstar]

I lunge in the working paddock a lot in the summer

 

[honetpot]

I recently came across a lunging method called 'equikinetic' again. It was 'invented' by a German guy and it is basically an interval training method for horses, on a small 8m circle. The circle is actually marked out as a square with poles on four sides with open corners, and the horse is 'lunged' more from a work-in-hand position. The horse is asked to trot for 60s in vertical balance and bend around the poles, then changes hand and relaxes 30s, then the next trot phase follows on the other hand. Supposedly great to build muscle quickly. (If you put equikinetic into youtube, you'll find examples.)
I am completely of two minds about this method - on the one hand I can follow the argument that if you want to build muscle, a structured training with 'reps'/intervals will produce results. On the other hand, it seems terribly repetitive for the horse (boring!), and always working on such a small circle also sounds like a recipe for injuries. I'm slightly doubtful that even if the horse really is in good balance, that repetitive work on such a small circle doesn't have negative side effects.
Has anyone else come across this method, and has an opinion?

It all depends I would think what type of horse you have.
I like cold bloods which often are heavy on the shoulders and would find this work difficult and you would soon be in a battle with a 650k horse to no effect. The most I have is an enclosed grass paddock.
If you are a pro rider with a purpose bred sports horse it may have the physical development and it hard to put in words with out sounding mean, the mindset that it doesn’t mind being drilled, perhaps it could work.
With all pro riders promoting stuff they are selling what works for them, when really when you promote anything you should be looking at how it works for the end user who picks up your book,gadget or video.
Most of us do not own elite horses, we work with what we buy.
We do not have time, we fit our hobby round family and work. I rode for thirty years, and trained horses but know enough realise What I do not know, many do not.
If you are lucky to have a good surface to work on you are in the minority.
It’s the law of untended consequences i.e.
Professionals in special care look after monitored babies on the tummies, this was promoted for normal babies, this has now been found to the exact opposite, they should sleep on their front, to lesson the risk of cot death.
Basic techniques which can easily understood by the general horse owning public should be promoted, I hope the ‘new’ BHS does this, for free, And new ones investigated, rather someone just trying to make a living selling what gadget, technique that works for them, to someone who does not have their skill.

 

[villager]

I have my doubts about the science in science of motion. It's been discussed on here before, I think he has some interesting things to say and some total dross

Hilary Clayton seems to have found a different average body angle (lean of 10% according to this article https://thehorse.com/111601/safe-longeing-for-horse-health/ ) the abstract is here https://avmajournals.avma.org/doi/abs/10.2460/ajvr.73.12.1890 but I can't access the full text.

Anyway, I do lunge mine a bit, almost always on 2 reins because I find I have more control and ability to move them around, sessions are short (20 mins max) circles are big and I do it to either give an easy stretchy day without being ridden, or to watch the way they are moving.
I hadn't lunged my TB for a few months so had a short session last week and it was interesting to see how his way of going had developed, in aspects I can't see from on board. I think if you are careful then it's a useful exercise.

Used like this I can't see that it is any more damaging than a fairly circle-heavy schooling session. I tend not to ride a lot of circles and would certainly bear this in mind if I was planning to lunge on a regular basis.

 

[villager]

I have had 2 bad experiences with my trainer and leaser free lunging both my horses . Both were excitable & raced around at liberty until they tired out. I wasn’t there both times . One ended dead lame after a real “rip “in deep footing resulting in a suspensary tear. The other showed on & off lameness and xrays showed a check ligament tear. Both were done under the guise of “ natural horsemanship “. I had a very docile Highland pony who would never want to exert such energy in a lunge ring.... so it boils down to the temperament of horse and knowledge of lunger.

 

[sbloom]

Any Hilary Clayton work tends to measure what is seen to be correct and winning in the show ring, the measuring of weight on front and back legs in piaffe was a case in point and led to further undermining of classical principles.

I recently came across a lunging method called 'equikinetic' again. It was 'invented' by a German guy and it is basically an interval training method for horses, on a small 8m circle. The circle is actually marked out as a square with poles on four sides with open corners, and the horse is 'lunged' more from a work-in-hand position. The horse is asked to trot for 60s in vertical balance and bend around the poles, then changes hand and relaxes 30s, then the next trot phase follows on the other hand. Supposedly great to build muscle quickly. (If you put equikinetic into youtube, you'll find examples.)
I am completely of two minds about this method - on the one hand I can follow the argument that if you want to build muscle, a structured training with 'reps'/intervals will produce results. On the other hand, it seems terribly repetitive for the horse (boring!), and always working on such a small circle also sounds like a recipe for injuries. I'm slightly doubtful that even if the horse really is in good balance, that repetitive work on such a small circle doesn't have negative side effects.
Has anyone else come across this method, and has an opinion?

Watching Klaus Schoneich and the knowledge and detail that goes into his lunging on a volte would make me very concernd for a distance learning form of such close lunging. The small circle isn't what causes injuries, it's the posture and way of going resulting that is the issue and you HAVE to know what you're doing to use this work effectively. This would concern me.

 

[supsup]

The small circle isn't what causes injuries, it's the posture and way of going resulting that is the issue and you HAVE to know what you're doing to use this work effectively. This would concern me.

That's my gut feeling as well, yet this method is being sold as a fool-proof, easy to replicate way to train your horse.

 

[milliepops]

That's my gut feeling as well, yet this method is being sold as a fool-proof, easy to replicate way to train your horse.

*dry laugh*
which is exactly the kind of thing that puts those of us who have been round the block a few times off "methods" but makes them appeal to the well intentioned but less experienced

 

[sbloom]

*dry laugh*
which is exactly the kind of thing that puts those of us who have been round the block a few times off "methods" but makes them appeal to the well intentioned but less experienced

I think there are some methods that, if you're not 100% perfect, will still improve your horse but certainly won't make them worse eg the free videos from Straightness Training. Lunging on a small circle definitely fallous outside of that IMO.

 

[Leandy]

All things in moderation is my motto. Lunging has its place. Like everything else it needs to be done sensibly. Anything done to extremes is likely to cause harm. All horses are different and need different things at different stages of their lives for different reasons. It depends what the alternatives are and many other variables as to whether it is the best thing to do today with your horse.

 

[MichaelD1973]

I try and avoid lunging where possible as I have heard it is really bad for horses and their joints.

However every winter it gets cold and I feel tired and a bit lazy and think about perhaps doing more lunging as it is so much quicker no need to get changed after work, or unlock tack room and then relock it, no need to tack up as pony lunges in a headcollar, it probably saves at least half an hour in all to lunge rather than ride and I don't get to the yard till 7pm after work. I have to keep up the exercise with my pony to control his weight even in the winter. Summer routine involves 3 x ridden schooling and 2 x hacking.

Winter routine could be 2 x ridden schooling, 1 x lunging over poles and 2 x hacking. By schooling I don't mean lots of small circles or demanding work I really just mean riding around in the school for exercise such as trotting and cantering round the edge with a couple of 20 meter circles or shallow loops in between.

Lunging is done in his head collar mainly in walk and trot plus trotting over a few poles, no gadgets and I warm up and cool down by walking him round the school. Pony is 17 and I don't want to do anything to endanger him, I have had him for 12 years and he has not had a hard life with lots of strain on his legs. The exercise he does is mainly aimed at weight control that than being competition fit or anything like that.

So what is the current thinking on lunging and does it really use up more energy than riding and how damaging for the joints?

I have my doubts about the science in science of motion. It's been discussed on here before, I think he has some interesting things to say and some total dross

Hilary Clayton seems to have found a different average body angle (lean of 10% according to this article https://thehorse.com/111601/safe-longeing-for-horse-health/ ) the abstract is here https://avmajournals.avma.org/doi/abs/10.2460/ajvr.73.12.1890 but I can't access the full text.

Anyway, I do lunge mine a bit, almost always on 2 reins because I find I have more control and ability to move them around, sessions are short (20 mins max) circles are big and I do it to either give an easy stretchy day without being ridden, or to watch the way they are moving.
I hadn't lunged my TB for a few months so had a short session last week and it was interesting to see how his way of going had developed, in aspects I can't see from on board. I think if you are careful then it's a useful exercise.

Used like this I can't see that it is any more damaging than a fairly circle-heavy schooling session. I tend not to ride a lot of circles and would certainly bear this in mind if I was planning to lunge on a regular basis.

Reference: https://www.petspest.com/horses/

Yes, I've heard lunging is bad as well and I have been avoiding it... I like your winter routine recommendation, may give it a try.

milliepops I also like the idea of shorter sessions though...so maybe I'll start at 10 minute max sessions and see how it goes!

 

[tallyho!]

Well I lunge and have done for many years. In a timeframe of perhaps 30 years.......... I lunged the "regular way" and was told that was awful. Then someone said try lunging in a pessoa, and discovered quickly that was complete shite. So I decided to bury myself in books for a wee while.

After lots of old books and new books I decided that Klaus Schoneich had also read alot of old books and new books and kind of wished I'd found his book first goadammit! So yeah I lunge in largely very classical ways and combine it wit in-hand stuff from very very old books and largely also more modernly Phillipe Karl (whom is now pretty ancient himself).

Anyway, the long and short of it is - you can't get a gymnastic exercise out of a horse on a string unless you understand a bit about horse biomechanics, basic laws of locomotion, physics and patience. Do that first, then lunge.

 

[Steerpike]

I've been watching some good lunging videos on Sharon Hunt eventing Facebook page recently, she gives you lots of ideas and exercises you can do.

 

[tallyho!]

I've been watching some good lunging videos on Sharon Hunt eventing Facebook page recently, she gives you lots of ideas and exercises you can do.

Exactly the sort of thing I moved away from many years ago but if this is where people are at, then use the videos and remember that the horse needs to be able to stretch a LOT during a lunge. This lady has put herself out there and deserves a lot of respect, and I am nowhere near the level of commercial riding she is at so do ignore me if you think I have no authority over this subject. Indeed I have no commercial qualification for what I am about to say. There is no benefit to a fixed frame - much less one with overbend - really bad for the horses posture. The more experienced will see how the horses could lift a lot more. As such, the closed posture means that they will be on the forehand - yes plenty of forwardness but not a lot of lift between the ribcage and far too much twisting these horses are "needing" that stretch. Much more could be achieved with a yielding approach and energy is better handled when a cavesson is used with a fixing over the bridge of the nose rather than underneath. Having control over the horses' nose is a more effective use of the energy - if you have the right tension you can even feel when you can ask for bend without the the horse "jack-knifing" or evading by twisting because the aid is way behind the energy. Google philippe karl or klaus or even manolo mendez or just try searching classical lungeing/longeing (good videos seem to emanate from Europe) but if you do see people lunging with a horses head BTV best avoided.

 

[IngramsRoughDiamond]

I lunge in full tack regularly as my mare is cold backed and this helps massively. My RVC Vet reccomend I do this and it has also helped her balance. Each to their own opinion and way of working but this works for us

 

[Wheels]

Exactly the sort of thing I moved away from many years ago but if this is where people are at, then use the videos and remember that the horse needs to be able to stretch a LOT during a lunge. This lady has put herself out there and deserves a lot of respect, and I am nowhere near the level of commercial riding she is at so do ignore me if you think I have no authority over this subject. Indeed I have no commercial qualification for what I am about to say. There is no benefit to a fixed frame - much less one with overbend - really bad for the horses posture. The more experienced will see how the horses could lift a lot more. As such, the closed posture means that they will be on the forehand - yes plenty of forwardness but not a lot of lift between the ribcage and far too much twisting these horses are "needing" that stretch. Much more could be achieved with a yielding approach and energy is better handled when a cavesson is used with a fixing over the bridge of the nose rather than underneath. Having control over the horses' nose is a more effective use of the energy - if you have the right tension you can even feel when you can ask for bend without the the horse "jack-knifing" or evading by twisting because the aid is way behind the energy. Google philippe karl or klaus or even manolo mendez or just try searching classical lungeing/longeing (good videos seem to emanate from Europe) but if you do see people lunging with a horses head BTV best avoided.

Agree with all of this!

Here is a video of Philippe karl just warming up his horse

No fixed frame, the horse is allowed to express himself, is allowed to lose balance without some auxiliary rein jabbing him in the gob, sometimes is too bent to the outside, sometimes too bent to the inside but has the opportunity to move freely, in his own rhythm, is forward but not rushing, is above the vertical without being hollow by arching the neck with nose forward.

Im sure there are some areas for improvement as with all horses in training but this is surely something to aim for for lots of people

 

[tallyho!]

I lunge in full tack regularly as my mare is cold backed and this helps massively. My RVC Vet reccomend I do this and it has also helped her balance. Each to their own opinion and way of working but this works for us

Yes I agree. I do this too it's very useful to see how your horse moves under saddle. You can spot problems too if there are any.

 

[Ceriann]

I don’t lunge mine now due to her having suffered a ligament injury 16 months ago. I school once a week for no more than 20-30 minutes. Yesterday she was wound up in the school - the fresh wind hit the side she’s wary of and with a current low tolerance to risk I popped off, got my lunge line and walked her around the school. Did lots of figures of 8, all in walk, just to get her to calm down and listen to me. I didn’t need to lunge. When we did lunge I used to be physically exhausted after a session as I would have to run like the clappers to use the full school and keep up with her trot work (to avoid too many circles).